Will you become a full-featured service also for other platforms than just for Apple?

caplicapli
edited January 8 in Windows

Any comments on if and possibly when you will be more open and multiple ecosystems friendly? For example your current app on Android can't do even a basic function such as copy the password from the menu. Instead you have to open each and every entry. Design of your apps on Android and Windows is saying that you are strictly Apple focused. I really like your app and also the fact, that you are a fellow Torontonian, but that will not make me switch platforms in order to use a full-featured service.


1Password Version: 7.0.9
_Extension Version:
Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @capli: All of our apps are full featured, but you're right that there are some inconsistencies between them. Some of that is due to platform differences, the age of the codebase on that platform, and a number of other factors, but you're right that there is plenty of room for improvement. I just disagree with the characterization that we're "Apple-focused" and that other platforms are being neglected. Certainly we have a longer history with Apple platforms since 1Password was originally Mac-only, and so we have a lot of stuff there we've build over years and years, much of which also benefits the iOS app since it can use some of the same code. But 1Password for Android was able to do Autofill before 1Password for iOS could, and 1Password for Windows still can do things that 1Password for Mac cannot. There's give and take both ways. We're almost certainly never going to have the exact same stuff across all platforms for so many reasons -- even when one seems to "catch up", we'll introduce something new on another, as we don't want to be dumping homogeneous, non-native code everywhere -- but we'll keep working to improve consistency across the board. You shouldn't have to switch platforms. So if there are specific features or improvements you'd like to see, let us know. We're listening. :)

  • It is really good to hear that you are focusing on every major platform. I now spent weeks studying the password managers on the market. 1Password is the winner for me. But the one thing that still bothers me is the UI. If we talk design only, you are very Apple-focused. You must agree with me on this.? Also many people are using tablets, two in one, Surface devices (including me). Touch input is no doubt on the rise. Is there a plan to make Windows desktop, Android app and the web version so that it fits the design language of it's correspondent platform (or at least have a neutral design language) and is touch friendly?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @capli: Thanks for getting back to me! :)

    It is really good to hear that you are focusing on every major platform. I now spent weeks studying the password managers on the market. 1Password is the winner for me.

    Thank you for taking the time to try different things! That may sound silly, perhaps like I'm only saying that because you've decided you like 1Password in the end, but I think it's really important to evaluate different options rather than just going with whatever you end up with. We'd much rather you use 1Password because you've decided it's the best fit for you. Then you can be happier I think: perhaps less of that "what if" or "grass is greener on the other side". But it also helps us improve 1Password, to hear if there are things you've seen elsewhere that are done a bit differently, that we should consider as well. Being an informed customer with a fresh perspective is better for everyone, but I know that takes time and dedication, so I want to say thanks for doing that -- and including 1Password in the first place. :chuffed:

    But the one thing that still bothers me is the UI. If we talk design only, you are very Apple-focused. You must agree with me on this.?

    In broad generalities, I don't agree. Certainly we were Apple-only at first, but that was a long time ago. Our Windows and Android apps are younger and therefore have had less time to grow, but we're very much a cross-platform company these days -- especially with 1Password memberships, which include all of the apps, and businesses which can often use less Apple stuff than our original userbase from the days when we only made a Mac app did.

    But I'd be curious if there's something specific you had in mind. You mention the UI, but we don't reuse code for that. We have a "1Password experience" we try to use for consistency across platforms so that users feel at home using 1Password anywhere, but that isn't an Apple thing. And you'll note that we're making heavy use of Google's Material Design on Android (you would immediately notice it if 1Password looked and worked exactly the same between Android and iOS; they each have a certain "feel" that we try to adhere to), and while the new Windows app is not technically UWP, we do take a lot of design cues from that -- which results in a very different feeling app than what we have on macOS, even if the same features are present and can be used similarly.

    Also many people are using tablets, two in one, Surface devices (including me). Touch input is no doubt on the rise. Is there a plan to make Windows desktop, Android app and the web version so that it fits the design language of it's correspondent platform (or at least have a neutral design language) and is touch friendly?

    I'm right there with you. I am not super into touch on Windows, but I am typing this on my Surface right now and I definitely use it from time to time -- especially when traveling, so I don't have to break out the keyboard. ;)

    So I'm not quite sure what you have in mind, but if you'll elaborate on the things you're thinking of maybe I can offer some more insight. :)

  • Here is what i found when i did a bit of digging on the password managers on the market. And why i choose you: 1) You are the most aggressive password manager (in terms of development and innovations). Previously Apple-only. Now supporting all the good features of Windows platform - Windows Hello and Edge extension. 2) You listen to your costumers and actively engage in conversation with them. 24/7 Im really impressed. 3) Agilebits take care big not only about it's customers but also about it's employees (high Glassdoor ranking). 4) You are the password manager that is most talked about on the social media. Which means the future is bright. 5) You are based in Toronto. :)

    I'm a person who is using Microsoft ecosystem my whole life. I loved my Lumia and now i love my Surface Book. There are times when i unnatach the display and use it as a tablet for reading on the subway or for random sketching. During these times i occasionally need to access the password manager. So Apple design and not being touch friendly are two things that i will overlook for now (the benefits i mentioned above are significant) and will believe that with your agressive and innovative approach UI will change soon.

    I don't know any other company that is copying it's design from one to the other platform with such precision as you are doing (Apple -> Windows, Android). Apart from Apple - Apple iTunes looks the same on Mac and also on the Windows. And that is sadly the same for 1Password. Ranking of the iTunes app on Windows Store is below average. Also the ranking of 1Password on Google Play and Microsoft Store is lower than on Apple Store. I believe that if you would use design language tailored to the platform, or just use a truly universal language, the user reception on the specific platform would be more positive. As positive as on Apple platform that you are using as default for your design language that you call universal.

    I took some screenshots to demonstrate it. I used mail apps on both platforms as an example.



    Also when i look at the older versions of 1Password for Windows, i see there is more Windows design language used. The newest app has less of it and more Apple elements. I wonder why.


  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Here is what i found when i did a bit of digging on the password managers on the market. And why i choose you: 1) You are the most aggressive password manager (in terms of development and innovations). Previously Apple-only. Now supporting all the good features of Windows platform - Windows Hello and Edge extension. 2) You listen to your costumers and actively engage in conversation with them. 24/7 Im really impressed. 3) Agilebits take care big not only about it's customers but also about it's employees (high Glassdoor ranking). 4) You are the password manager that is most talked about on the social media. Which means the future is bright. 5) You are based in Toronto. :)

    @capli: Oh wow. Thanks for the kind words, and also the summary. I know how much we care about our customers, how hard we work, and how much we love what we do, but it's always good to get an "outside" perspective. Earlier I was thinking of that more in terms of comparison to other password managers, since it is probably easier for you to look at all of them objectively, but that's a whole other level. Thank you for sharing that! We're definitely not perfect, but we'll continue to strive to improve our software and our support. Your encouragement means a lot! :chuffed:

    I'm a person who is using Microsoft ecosystem my whole life. I loved my Lumia and now i love my Surface Book. There are times when i unnatach the display and use it as a tablet for reading on the subway or for random sketching. During these times i occasionally need to access the password manager. So Apple design and not being touch friendly are two things that i will overlook for now (the benefits i mentioned above are significant) and will believe that with your agressive and innovative approach UI will change soon.

    I was really a fan of the Windows Phone (R.I.P.) OS and hardware, and was always saddened that there just wasn't much of a software ecosystem around it. It would have been good to have a three-way competition in mobile, but the timing just wasn't right I think. :( That's a bit of a digression though. I love my Surface Pro and use 1Password for Windows there every day. It certainly isn't touch-first, but then I don't think it should be. I don't find it any more difficult to use with touch than Windows Store apps though, so I'd be curious what specific improvements you're hoping for. What's giving you trouble in the UI?

    I don't know any other company that is copying it's design from one to the other platform with such precision as you are doing (Apple -> Windows, Android). Apart from Apple - Apple iTunes looks the same on Mac and also on the Windows. And that is sadly the same for 1Password. Ranking of the iTunes app on Windows Store is below average. Also the ranking of 1Password on Google Play and Microsoft Store is lower than on Apple Store. I believe that if you would use design language tailored to the platform, or just use a truly universal language, the user reception on the specific platform would be more positive. As positive as on Apple platform that you are using as default for your design language that you call universal.

    Honestly, I think that the reviews indicate things other than the UI in most cases. I haven't read all of them, but it's something we discuss, and the things that come up most -- by a long shot -- are memberships (a lot of people seem to think that these are mandatory when they are not, and rate our app poorly as a result) and customer support (we do reply to everyone, but we are not always able to as quickly as we should, so we get dinged for that, which I can't blame anyone for). I do appreciate where you're coming from though, and I can tell how much it means to you. It's interesting to me that one option you suggest is having a wholly universal UI across all platforms. I can't say that is feasible. Some things are just done differently. And, going back to your touch concerns, if we did a single monolithic UI everywhere, it would probably even less touch-friendly.

    I think there may just be some confusion about the Windows design language, which is understandable because there just isn't such a thing, really. There's a wide variety, with older win32 stuff, .Net, UWP, and a lot in between. If you talk to the Mac faithful, you'll not be able to convince them that we adhere to Apple's design language either, because we don't. We probably appear to do so there because there's much less variance. But the reality is that we do a lot of custom stuff. We're not adhering fully to Microsoft's stuff either, of course, but we actually can't since they have so many variations that contradict each other. That's not a complaint or criticism. It certainly keeps things interesting. But while our new Windows app is not technically UWP, we do emulate that "flavour" to a high degree. But it's definitely a balancing act between making an app that feels "native" to the platform and also "native" to 1Password.

    I took some screenshots to demonstrate it. I used mail apps on both platforms as an example. Also when i look at the older versions of 1Password for Windows, i see there is more Windows design language used. The newest app has less of it and more Apple elements. I wonder why.

    I'm really curious what you're even seeing as "Apple elements", because the 1Password for Mac version 7 UI is highly custom. That wasn't something we did just to be different from other Mac apps, but rather the things that 1Password does are so different from most apps that we need to design the UI to accommodate it's functionality. But I guess if you're seeing 1Password for Mac as "Apple UI", it would make sense that you'd think we're doing "Apple UI" on Windows, since the same people are designing both.But there are almost no standard controls in screenshots of 1Password on either platform; nearly all of it is "1Password UI". Anyway, interesting discussion. :)

  • caplicapli
    edited January 28

    I've highlighted some design elements in the current 1Password version for Windows and compared it to the older one. To prove you that the 1Password 6 looked like an actual Windows application, while the 1Password 7 looks almost like a Mac OS application ported to Windows. For comparison i used again the native mail app on Mac OS and Windows.




  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for the clarification. But again, those aren't "Mac" design elements, but 1Password design elements we've created ourselves. If there are particular things that you think need to be improved, please elaborate on what they are and why you feel that changing them would help you. We're going to be reticent about changing things that are not broken and bring consistency to the 1Password experience across multiple OSes, but if there are things we can improve without sacrificing the added consistency that both we and our customers have fought for over the years, we'll be happy to do so. :)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited January 28

    Hi @capli,

    You are correct that the initial 1Password 6 for Windows build felt more aligned with the Windows design, the reason is because we originally built it as a Windows store app (Universal Windows Platform/UWP). Unfortunately, as much as we loved the UWP design, the technology behind it was so limited, we could not scale it into a full desktop app that people want it to be; such as support for browser extensions, 1Password mini, and others. We had to make a tough decision to switch back to Windows' Win32 + older WPF UI library, which didn't have a good modern look at all and it is far more complex to work on. I don't think most folks would want a very modern Windows app that's very crippled where you can't use 1Password mini, browser extension. I would like to say 1Password right now is a decent but consistent Windows app that offers more but we will continue to improve and evolve 1Password in each update. Check how much we've progressed in each single update from 6.0, 6.1, ....up to 7.3. We've even tried a separate unique UI (sidebar with three tabs) in 1Password 6.8 but it caused some confusion, so we switched it back to current design and improved it further.

    As the result of switching away from the modern UWP UI library, we had to do a custom design to bring 1Password experience to Windows and that means pulling from our design team's experiences, which is as Brenty said, a lot came from Apple but we're adjusting to be more cross-platform and have our own unique experience.

    Let me be absolutely clear; there are no porting of anything (including UI design) on any platforms. Every single 1Password app you see is natively coded by its own development team that follows a standard to be consistent across platforms. A lot of feedback has been positive when people say that they switch devices and it was nice to know what to do in 1Password because it was mostly consistent.

    The design of 1Password is absolutely not final, we're no way near that, we're going to evolve it; 1Password for Windows is relatively young but as we continue to add more features and evolve the design in each update, it's going to eventually fit better on Windows as we integrate deeply with Windows.

    Ranking of the iTunes app on Windows Store is below average. Also the ranking of 1Password on Google Play and Microsoft Store is lower than on Apple Store. I believe that if you would use design language tailored to the platform, or just use a truly universal language, the user reception on the specific platform would be more positive.

    To be fair, iTunes isn't good on any platform; Apple rarely updates it and it's not a good macOS app either.

    There is no full 1Password app at the Microsoft Store, it's the Edge extension that the reviews are for and that's really mainly because it has nothing to do with the UI, it has to do with the fact that Edge as a UWP app is very limited and breaks 1Password extension often. We actually recommend using Chrome/Firefox more than Edge for anyone wanting the full 1Password experience.

    In addition, we talk to many folks that have left the said reviews, the design isn't the top issue. It's the complexity rather than design and we believe having a consistent experience across devices and simplifying the design is the way to address it.

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