App hasn't been syncing with dropbox for years?

I've had this problem before and I lost a good amount of data.
For reference: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/24194/lag-between-windows-password-update-and-ios-using-dropbox-or-is-it-just-broken#latest

I run 1Password on Windows and on iOS. Somehow I let my Windows app get really old and it's on version 4.6. The auto update stopped working and I lost track of all further updates. I /think/ it is still successfully backing up to Dropbox, to files located in: \Dropbox\1Password.agilekeychain\data\default

On iOS, I am running the most up-to-date version (7.2.5)

Back in 2014 (see my linked post), I complained that 1 Password didn't tell me when it was failing to sync.

Well 4 years later and it has been failing to sync for who-knows how long. Silently. Again.

On iOS, I go to Settings > Vaults > Primary. My Sync Service is set to "Dropbox" and I have a message: "Failed to upload file to Dropbox" Pressing "Sync Now" just leads to the same message. Same for "Try Again". The error message contains a path that is very long, I can take a screenshot if it will help.

The problem might be that "Last Sync" says that it's either in progress or a few seconds ago. If there IS some system in place to check for Sync failures, it MIGHT be getting fooled by this status message.

So now I have 2 iOS devices and a Windows device. My guess is that 1Password on iOS is saving my passwords locally?

I need two things:

1) a way to save my data from each iOS device
2) a way to combine the data (or at least find differences) so I can have a single vault
3) a way to make sure this doesn't happen a THIRD time.

I was looking at upgrading to version 7 today. I understand that storing to the 1Password.com account is your recommended procedure now, but some of us paranoid folks would rather the data exist in a non-centralized location for attack.

Thank you!


1Password Version: 4.6.2
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10 64bit
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • Also, I have confirmed that dropbox is working on all devices.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I'm really sorry for the frustration @slate. This is one of the reasons we built 1Password memberships: unfortunately Dropbox isn't a 100% reliable solution and there are more cases like this than I'd like there to be. Unfortunately there is no easy solution here. There isn't any mechanism in 1Password to de-dupe similar but not identical data. In 1Password 7 for Mac we introduced a duplicate removal assistant, but it is intentionally very strict about what it considers a duplicate.

    The first thing I would suggest is backing up your data on each device so if things go south at any point we can at least get back to where we started:

    https://support.1password.com/backups/#you-can-also-create-and-restore-backups-of-standalone-vaults

    Once you've done that I'd like to see if we can get sync going again. You mentioned you had reviewed the Dropbox troubleshooting guide. Where are you currently at with that?

    Ben

  • I wanted to be sure I wouldn't accidentally wipe anything out while trying to back it up (I think I accidentally did this last time).

    I assume my iOS app vaults are cached locally on my phones, right?

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I assume my iOS app vaults are cached locally on my phones, right?

    Correct.

    Ben

  • Hi Ben, Sorry for the delay, some other fires came up yesterday. From your link, I did not find any backups in the location suggested (%LOCALAPPDATA%\1Password\Backups). My bet is that this version of 1P doesn't do this automatically. I went to the 1P Window, selected "Backup" and "Backup 1Password Vault". This lead me to a folder (D:\accountname\Documents\1Password\Backups) which contains .agilekeychain_zip files. The latest file was made when I manually created a backup. Do you think this is sufficient? Maybe the newer software can't work with these files? I could also duplicate all of the files in my dropbox folder....

    There are three files:
    Desktop: 1Password 2019-01-10 192841 (465 items).agilekeychain_zip
    iPhone: 1Password 2019-01-10 19_39_48 (1 profiles, 536 items, 0 folders, 1 attachments).1p4_zip
    iPad: 1Password 2019-01-10 20_03_12 (1 profiles, 536 items, 0 folders, 1 attachments).1p4_zip

    I have collected them in a backup folder on my desktop.

    I selected "Change Dropbox" and my first iOS device was able to sync. According to the warning message, the local information on my device was erased. This was the same solution as last time, it seems that at some time the connection to Dropbox just stopped working. It would have been nice if I were able to redo the Dropbox setup without erasing the local information.

    I have confirmed that a change I make on my Desktop is shown in my iOS device.

    I have also found that my second iOS device is now syncing, even though I hadn't touched it. I think this is how I lost my data last time, as I didn't expect both devices to change without input for each.

    So now I want to:
    1) do the best I can to merge my password pools
    2) change my storage method with hopes that this won't happen again
    3) Install 1Password 7 on my Desktop and purchase a standalone license for it.

    Thank you!

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    change my storage method with hopes that this won't happen again
    Install 1Password 7 on my Desktop and purchase a standalone license for it.

    Dropbox is the only sync solution we support in 1Password 7 for Windows other than 1Password.com. A standalone license would not give you access to 1Password.com. To store your data on 1Password.com a membership, rather than a license, is required.

    About 1Password membership

    do the best I can to merge my password pools

    If all devices are now syncing via Dropbox you should have access to the same data from all of them. If you're seeing different data on different devices it seems the sync with Dropbox is still not working on one or more devices.

    Ben

  • Hoo boy, okay so the apps told me that my local data was going to be thrown away when my Dropbox was altered. I am sure that my apps had some local data that my Desktop (therefore, Dropbox) did NOT have.

    If I am reading this right, it seems logical to conclude that the unique information that I had accumulated on my apps was thrown away when I changed my Dropbox settings. The app told me that it was going to throw away my current data when I changed my dropbox settings. It did not say that it was going sync them.

    If the backup names are accurate, my app vaults had 536 items, while my desktop vault has 452 items.

    A new backup made from my desktop program says I have 466 items currently. I don't think I made 14 new logins in 2 days, but I can remember 3 or 4 at least.

  • Also, I would like to purchase the perpetual license of 7 before the holiday sale is over, but I apparently need install 7 to do that. But if installing 7 makes this troubleshooting harder...

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Also, I would like to purchase the perpetual license of 7 before the holiday sale is over, but I apparently need install 7 to do that.

    That is correct.

    But if installing 7 makes this troubleshooting harder...

    I do not believe that it does. If anything being on the latest version makes things a bit easier. On the off chance that it does somehow make troubleshooting more difficult we can help you revert to v6 after the fact. I don't know that it'll be possible for us to offer the sale price after it ends (frankly, I doubt we will be able to).

    1Password 7 does not support Agile Keychain. It only supports the newer OPVault sync format, which is also supported in previous versions of 1Password. As such when you upgrade if you are not already using OPVault a conversion will be done and you'll need to re-establish syncing with the new sync file.

    Hoo boy, okay

    I'm a little confused as to the current state. Could you please tell me:

    1. If you add an item on one of your devices does it appear on all others? If not, which ones does it not appear on (and which version of 1Password is on those devices)?
    2. Does one device appear to have a more complete dataset than any of the others?
    3. Are you missing any items or changes? I understand there is a discrepancy in the item counts... but are you actually missing anything?

    Ben

  • Hello Ben,

    Thank you for the information. I will upgrade to 7 now.

    I know that I am missing at least some information (a few accounts are gone). I do not know how many in total are missing.

    I guess I could upgrade my desktop vault to OPVault, then when my data is safely in the new format, my apps should be able to restore the backups I made. Then I would manually check for missing items, hopefully I can sort by "date modified" (although I don't think I can count on that).

  • I mean, I couldn't find a way to sort my items by "date modified" in my apps.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Unfortunately 1Password for iOS does not (yet) offer such an option, but 1Password for Mac does. I believe 1Password for Windows does as well, which you can access by clicking on the "sort" button at the top of the item listing.

    Ben

  • Okay, so what if I restore the iphone backup to 1password 4, and then compare it to 1password 7? I'd have to confirm that they are still backing up to different vaults, and I would back up all of the vaults beforehand.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    @slate

    I apologize for the delayed reply. I've been thinking about how to best move forward with this. I wish I had a better answer. I really think at this point the safest method is going to be a manual review. I realize that is a pain, especially due to the lack of sort options.

    Ben

  • So do you think my idea of using the two desktop version to open two different vaults won't work? If not, I'm about ready to throw in the towel. There's always the option to password reset :)

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I may have misunderstood what kind of process you were describing. If you've got a way to have the two datasets side-by-side that sounds like a reasonable approach to me. :+1:

    Ben

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