UI feedback on 1Password 7.3 changes; more clicks to reveal/large type passwords

2

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @eg_je: Ahh I see. Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't noticed that you'd successfully posted that earlier. That should be better. :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @JMcClane72: Thanks for sharing your perspective. We can take that into account along with feedback from other 1Password users, and continue to iterate on the design with future versions. :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    another one: shortcut ctrl+\ was somehow changed to ctrl+| on both my work & private computer for 1password. I had to go into settings after update to change it back to ctrl+. I guess many people will be confused about why their shortcuts doesn't work anymore....

    @rr4242: As mentioned in the release notes, Windows does not convert all keyboard shortcuts as expected. But you can change it to something else in 1Password Settings. Sorry for the confusion that caused. :)

    We're not maintaining multiple UIs for the app, so there will be no "on/off" switch for changing it, but we're listening to all feedback -- positive and negative -- and will keep it in mind as we develop 1Password further. Cheers!

  • @robbiepearce thanks for dropping in.

    We have a mix of users, technical and non-technical, I can say with almost certainty that the majority of them aren’t going to know about hotkeys unless they’re power users (and neither will they have the desire to use for the long-term).

    Win + L to lock a machine has been around for years and in the wake of GDPR/ISO27001 businesses are still having to educate users how to lock their machine. End users desire simplicity when it comes to security, businesses desire the best products which promote elevated security but also keep their end users happy.

    To cover off reveal and large type, the presumption is 1Password is installed on the device where the data is being inputted or that the device/system allows the pasting/filling of a password. In the technical business sphere a lot of systems require manual entry and work can be across multiple devices, or in differing environments (e.g. RDS) - may seem dated but it’s reality.

    We don’t only store login items in 1Password. We store a range of different items (thousands) and the fill feature is already obsolete where these are concerned. Now we can’t easily reveal them...

  • ericchaseericchase
    edited January 11

    @SergeyTheAgile and @robbiepearce
    Hey guys, the ( Ctrl + Alt ) hotkey combo is actually quite useful, thank you.
    I will use the combo for now as a quick reveal is what I normally want.

  • robbiepearcerobbiepearce

    Team Member

    To cover off reveal and large type, the presumption is 1Password is installed on the device where the data is being inputted or that the device/system allows the pasting/filling of a password. In the technical business sphere a lot of systems require manual entry and work can be across multiple devices, or in differing environments (e.g. RDS) - may seem dated but it’s reality.

    We don’t only store login items in 1Password. We store a range of different items (thousands) and the fill feature is already obsolete where these are concerned. Now we can’t easily reveal them...

    @eg_je Thanks so much for this explanation, this is really helpful. Although we are trying to keep 1Password consistent across platforms, we don't want this to come at the expense of bad user experience and it may be this is an example of where we differentiate to fit a more common use case on Windows that other platforms just don't experience. I will take this back to the rest of the team and we'll discuss potential solutions to make this easier.

    Hey guys, the ( Ctrl + Alt ) hotkey combo is actually quite useful, thank you.
    I will use the combo for now as a quick reveal is what I normally want.

    @ericchase Excellent, glad that helped :+1:

  • @eg_je just as Robbie and others said we listen to the feedback and consider options. Does Large Type needs to be equally accessible to you as Reveal? Can "Type in Window" fit the bill or it does not detect specific windows where you want to type data? What's more useful Reveal of single field or Reveal All fields at once (like holding Ctrl+Alt does)? The more we understand your use cases, the better 1Password you will get :)

  • veriikveriik
    edited January 11

    I'm like 90% behind your new UI choices here. I just want to toss my 2 cents, why "Large Type" is such an important feature for me. I access a large number of physical consoles on an almost daily basis and for that alone, "Large Type" is pretty useful. Sometimes the virtual terminals don't accept copy pasting either (especially inside a couple virtualization layers where getting the paste to work would risk too much operational system security).

    Are my use cases a bit on the fringe side? Yes they are. And I can totally live with the new UI. The other improvements are totally great this time. Big thanks for those!

  • I'd just like to echo what many people here are saying. I use the 'large type' function on a regular basis for applications where I can't paste or for typing into another device. I also really dislike the single column view. Please give an option to revert to the two column view (i.e. header on the left, value on the right).

    I'm all for the other updates, but these two options have really slowed me down today.

  • @SergeyTheAgile @robbiepearce there are legitimate use cases for both reveal and large type.

    From a security minded perspective Ctrl+Alt / Reveal All produces an undesirable outcome. I recognise it could be be convinient for someone who's sitting alone in a private environment. However, in a business/public environment the unecessary exposure of information could amount to a breach of GDPR and/or ISO27001. It's a lot more difficult for someone to shield an entire screen than a single field (imagine having to cover an entire ATM, instead of just the keypad, when entering your pin number in to withdraw cash).

    Would it be possible to achieve something similiar to the below? Draws inspiration from the older design but is in keeping with the new - icons for copy, reveal and large type, the dropdown then provides access to type in window.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited January 11

    Hi @eg_je,

    It's a lot more difficult for someone to shield an entire screen than a single field

    You can also use Control + R to reveal that field only. Control + Alt is for all fields while Control + R is for that specific field.

    However, I did notice that you have to click the field before the shortcut works if you're using the mouse.

    For keyboard, it works really well if you arrow down and press Control + R, press again to conceal it. We'll see if we can make it work just by hovering with the mouse.

    Would it be possible to achieve something similiar to the below?

    It brings back three problems from before;

    1. If you click the field itself, you don't know what you're actually clicking for. Click to copy as the default action has to remain as it is single most common action that people do for any fields and the most requested feature we get.
    2. The icons doesn't have enough context to explain what it is, we get feedback that even with enough usage in time, people don't know what these do. Not to mention, we'll be adding more options there in future updates.
    3. It's easy to click the wrong icon. Imagine you wanted to click copy but you click the eye by accident, revealing it and that's even worse.

    However, what we could come up with (this is just off my head, it'll have to go through the design team first), is put the common actions on the right side of the copy button; [****][copy] | [reveal] | [auto-type] | .........]

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Oh, Control + L for Large Type in case you're not aware of that shortcut either.

    We'll add the shortcuts to the context menu in the next update.

  • However, what we could come up with (this is just off my head, it'll have to go through the design team first), is put the common actions on the right side of the copy button; [****][copy] | [reveal] | [auto-type] | .........]

    +1

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    :)

  • @robbiepearce we appreciate that you personally came to address some of our concerns. as starters, i'm a UX specialist with 10+ years experience, and have been working on similar projects for the Fortune 500. as others have already pointed out, the "new" UX for Windows really is terrible, and it does break a number of cardinal UX/UI design rules.

    the fact that your colleague(MikeT)'s first & best response is "In what ways and what rules" points to me 2 things:
    A - potentially combative attitude, which is a terrible look right off the bat
    B - lack of sheer professionalism

    as i'm sure your team would be well-aware, there is a plethora of established cx / product mgmt literature out there that already shows most bugs / issues go unreported, because the effort required for users is often too high to justify involvement. i don't remember any other 1Password changes in recent history, save for the switch to a subscription model, that has generated as much backlash as the latest 1Password interface change on Windows.

    while i understand your team's wishes to align the UI across macOS & Windows, this just seems to be one of those "it's how we've done things for a long time on macOS already" type of reasoning, and that's not a particularly great way to approach UI/UX design. i'm sure your team is already quite overwhelmed with the sheer amount of negative feedback, so i'll leave it to the others to point out what your team has missed, but i'd too very much like to revert to the old UI if possible.

    thanks.

  • Thats also my point of view. Just to say that's the way we did it for years on MacOS and it is the way it looks on iOS is not a reason for UI change on Windows, which breaks major rules of Ui design and software ergonomics. To justify a bad desicion with nother bad decision from the past or another OS is not helpful.

    The one column design is not user friendly, even on iOS it generates a lot of empty space if you use the app on an ipad in landscape mode.

    If you want to optimize space, why not a responsive design?

  • I'm not happy to see so many unhappy users and I'm very happy to see people taking time to provide feedback. Thank you all for that. <3 Please excuse us if we sounded not friendly at any point.

    I won't pretend we know exactly how many people feel good or bad about 1-column design or moving secondary actions into a menu. We do not have the luxury of telemetry or A/B testing. Recent changes have been inspired by other feedback as well, previous version was not perfect either. We are definitely going to improve it, how exactly is being discussed. What I can promise is that this is not the end and improvements are coming.

  • derek328derek328
    edited January 12

    @SergeyTheAgile thanks for the apology, i can certainly understand how some product owners may feel (at times) it's them versus customers, but this isn't the right way to view things. like most literature has demonstrated, most issues really go unreported (LinkedIn's own research, I believe, estimates that only 5% of complaints are ever raised - so try to imagine the real size). Like JMcClane72 said, to justify a bad decision with another bad decision from the past, or another OS, is degenerative. you guys need to start implementing proper research mechanisms like UsabilityHub - a half-day run with basic screenshots of your UI designs should already yield a few hundred responses, if not thousands. unlike what some of your teammates have said here, UI design is not "subjective" - there's a real science behind it.

    for example: when viewing a login item, what was the decision behind separating "Username, Password, and Website" as a separate entity with extra padded space before other details (which you should), but then merely include the first 2 in a highlighted box? If a user is looking at this item in detail (as would be the case if he/she got to this page view to begin with), that user is most likely interested in the login's website address too.

    another example: when we log 2FA restore codes, often short and only alphanumeric, 1Password's "new" Windows UI somehow takes it upon itself to grade them too (even if these field types are set to Password). so, what happens now for websites like FB, Google etc is that we'll have a messy chain of hidden recovery codes ••••••, but also a chain of "Fair" password warnings & a chain of incomplete-circular warning icons that look like your 2FA countdown timers. first of all, intuitively a question for mainstream users would be - "are my recovery codes all about to expire?" this surely can't be good UI. your past 1Password Windows interface never had these issues.

    Rookie mistakes like this run rampant across this "new" UI for Windows. your old design for Windows was around a solid A- or B+, but this new one is definitely a D. please fix it.

  • palminopalmino
    edited January 13

    I too really dislike the new 'one column' design and I think it's a major stepback in terms of clarity. If you have so many unhappy users with this new design, why don't you leave up to us wich design we prefer, ie. with a switch in the settings? This design is annoying to me.
    At least you should offer a reasonable solution for big screens.
    I also don't like the new dropdown menue to reveal the password.

  • palminopalmino
    edited January 13

    double posting, sorry

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @derek328: Thank you for sharing your perspective. Just keep in mind that you can provide feedback on a product without attacking people. Please consider that before commenting in the future. We're people too. Thanks. :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @palmino: While certainly some folks have let us know they are not fans of the current design, I'm not sure that letting the userbase "design" the app is a good idea. After all, some of the changes here were specifically requested by many more people. Any change will result in some number being unhappy, and if we make every change that is requested, that becomes exponential. As Sergey and others have mentioned, we're listening to all the feedback and will determine what our next move will be. We'd like to keep the benefits of what we have already and make tweaks to make it better, rather than just reversing all of it, which leaves another set of users just as unhappy again. Cheers! :)

  • Any tentative timeline on when we can expect an update of substance to hit production? e.g. are we talking at days/weeks/months? @SergeyTheAgile @brenty @MikeT @robbiepearce

    Just wondering if @Kailo's approach of deploying an old release and disabling automatic updates is a good interim approach? Disregarding the obvious issues in doing so (lack of bug fixes, etc), stuck between a rock and a hardplace with my userbase today.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Any tentative timeline on when we can expect an update of substance to hit production? e.g. are we talking at days/weeks/months? @SergeyTheAgile @brenty @MikeT @robbiepearce

    @eg_je:

    While I know how passionate you are about this, we're not going to go change a bunch of UI and ship an update based on just this feedback. It's important that we listen to all of our users, and most people need time to consider changes and determine if they're able to adjust and/or identify things that might be better for them long-term. The first stable release of 7.3 was less than a week ago. You're going to have to give us -- both here at 1Password and in the larger 1Password userbase -- more time. ;)

    Just wondering if @Kailo's approach of deploying an old release and disabling automatic updates is a good interim approach? Disregarding the obvious issues in doing so (lack of bug fixes, etc), stuck between a rock and a hardplace with my userbase today.

    That's up to you. We can't recommend using outdated software, but if you feel like giving up all of the performance and other improvements in the new release is worth it for you to have different UI for copy, Large Type, etc., then that's certainly something you could do. I'm sorry that you feel like you have to make a difficult decision here, and that I don't have something to offer you that gets you everything you want at this time, but we are listening to everyone's feedback and will continue to iterate on the design with subsequent updates. Hang in there. :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited January 16

    I have to agree with rest of the guys. It's been few days since the new look and I just can't get used to it. The grey background is distracting. Logic behind separating items or adding so much extra padding is beyond me.

    @Kailo: Thanks for chiming in! We'll take your feedback into account along with everyone else's as we continue to revise the item details design. :)

    Also, I don't think this passive aggresive behavior is necessarry - "it's how we've done things for a long time on macOS already" when you counter argue against windows (old) look.

    I disagree with your assessment that it is "passive aggresive" to explain some of the reasoning behind the design -- consistency -- especially since that is the topic of this discussion, and cross-platform consistency is one of the biggest requests we get from the 1Password userbase as a whole. But while I know that it was not meant in a negative spirit, I am sorry if we gave you the wrong impression with the way it was phrased. :(

    I have to agree with rest of the guys. It's been few days since the new look and I just can't get used to it. The grey background is distracting. Logic behind separating items or adding so much extra padding is beyond me. Just look at those notes. It's really hard to read.

    I don't personally find it hard to read, but I think we can all agree that there is still room for improvement. Thank you for letting us know the specific things that you feel we need to focus on. We're not done, and will continue working to make it better for everyone. :blush:

  • @brenty I do agree with others, the more responses on the subject the more "passive aggressive" the official stance appears.

    The last time there was such a backlash... as @derek328 pointed out: the subscription model. In all the years 1Password has been around, two instances of backlash does not provide the business with enough experience of user dissatisfaction to so brazenly negate/placate negative feedback.

    Then it struck me, this is exactly the attitude which Snapchat adopted with its redesign. It took a petition of over one million people, many months to pass by, competitor adoption of strengths and user base churn for them to finally admit they made a mistake. Snapchat eventually made changes to the UI but the damage was done. Snapchat users will be quick to point out the design was poor and unintuitive, many portraying the feeling that Snapchat breached their trust (those millions weren't BETA users either).

    I've been keeping a close eye on the public 1Password feedback in relation to this update and my assessment is its closer to ~50/50 (positive/negative) than ~90/10. Where positive feedback is present it's not 100% clear in some cases whether there is direct correlation with the actual update, all I'm saying is consider the ratio with a pinch of salt. What I can say is where the negative feedback exists it is undoubtedly clear as to what the trigger and feeling is.

    So it's interesting that you'd say something like "we're not going to go change a bunch of UI and ship an update based on just this feedback", when the feedback appears fairly consistent throughout various channels. I really want to be wrong about this possible interpretation but it feels as though 1Password doesn't really care, despite telling everyone their feedback is important and @SergeyTheAgile acknowledging there are "so many unhappy users". You've seen the passion in the feedback, not just from myself but from others too, so please give us the respect of engaging with us seriously - be transparent about how our feedback is making its way through the internal discussions and offer tentative timelines on getting changes into a BETA. If there's aspects which we haven't quite sold you on being as important as we've said: come back to us and engage us further.

    Ultimately this comes back to trust and there's a real risk here of passion turning into despondency and alienation. The "passive aggressiveness" feels like its being driven by the blinkers being on and the resulting tunnel vision.

    @robbiepearce highlighted the relationship with customers is what makes 1Password so great... so let me point out: we're your customers, not the enemy, and we'd rather be allies, and these are real passionate relationships which you have the opportunity to leverage - let's turn this into something more constructive and proactive.

  • I can't give any ETA on improvements to come, but they are coming for sure. There will be smaller updates to improve layouts in single-column design and we are looking into addressing feedback about multiple-clicks, wasted space and readability. We are all here for the same goal - get the best app for password management.

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