Workflow questions using v7 versus v6 from long time 1Password user

I've tried to search to see if my questions have be answered before and if they have I wasn't able form a query that would find the discussions, so thanks for your patience if these questions have already been addressed here.

I'm still using 1PW v6.8.9 and have be watching the development of v7. I'm always slow to advance from one version of an app to the next as there are usually "growing pains" that take awhile to work through. By watching the Change Logs for v7 I'm now starting to consider making the upgrade. I really like the new v7 features I've read about, especially the added WatchTower capabilities and the "have I been pwned" integration.

I wish I could just run v7 alongside v6.8.9 but I understand that is not recommended (I know that a v7 install zips up the old v6 install so there is a way to go back but I'm not quite ready to take that step).

I have a workflow that I use with v6 that I'd like to understand can still be used with v7.

Early in my use of 1PW, I used it with the browser extensions. While I recognize there are advantages to using the extensions, I was never really comfortable with the consistency of their operation. I felt like I wasn't in full control of the login process so I disabled the browser extensions and haven't used them since.

I developed my 1PW workflow such that I make entries into 1PW using 1PW to generate a strong password, manually enter my User ID, copy and paste the web URL from the browser, enter any other pertinent info and then save the 1PW entry.

After setting up my credentials in 1PW, my method is to copy and paste the web URL from 1PW into the browser and copy and paste both my User ID and Password when I login.

This is the way I've done it for years and I don't want to have to change that workflow.  It's what works for me and I've used it for so long that it's just become a "muscle memory" automatic process.

I realize that the browser extensions have probably gotten "smarter" over the years and that there is the added advantage that the browser extension won't inadvertently enter my credentials into the wrong (or spoofed) web site; however, I'd still like to understand that if I chose to I can use v7 the same way that I've been using v6.8.9.

Bottom line, with v7 of 1PW on macOS can I forgo use of the browser extensions and continue to use my workflow as described above?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my long-winded questions.


1Password Version: 6.8.9
Extension Version: don't use the extensions
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @trclayton58: If you'll be patient with me too, we'll do just fine. First, I'd like to start us off with this XKCD comic:

    I think this is a lighthearted take on this sort of thing which still acknowledges the complicated nature of developing and using software. :)

    While I can certainly understand your position as far as waiting, generally 1Password is a different beast with regard to upgrading. Unless there's a specific thing holding you back, you're often going to have more issues with compatibility and such (unless you're running outdated browser/OS, etc.) by waiting, since only the current version will support the latest stuff -- for example, Mojave, Safari 12, the Safari App Extension APIs, etc.

    And regarding the browser extensions, on the contrary, you're in full control. 1Password never even tries to fill anything unless you tell it to. That's very intentional, to avoid situations like where the browsers' built-in autofill feature squirt sensitive information into webpages, which has been leveraged to collect people's personal data. So 1Password has always done this differently, only taking an action with your say-so.

    Additionally, while it's not been the most popular change, the Autosubmit feature was removed with the release of Mohave since Apple rightly discourages apps sending keystrokes now because it can easily be abused. Autosubmit could always be disabled, but now it's gone completely. So while you still would have had to invoke it, that's one more thing you wouldn't have to worry about at all now.

    And while there are good reasons to not not use the 1Password browser extensions, there are good reasons to use them as well: it's more convenient than copying and pasting, and actually more secure too since you're not exposing your passwords to every other app on the system by using the clipboard, not to mention being protected against phishing attacks since 1Password will only fill login credentials into a web page with a URL matching the one saved in it.

    I'm actually not sure how 1Password 7 would affect your "workflow" at all compared to 1Password 6, but I will say that it's not at all a use case that we design for. Rather, our goal is to make it easier to the the secure thing. Conversely, this can sometimes make it harder for people who try to go it their own way. It isn't our intention to be punitive, but I can see how it could feel that way to someone at times if they're trying to use 1Password in a way other than what it's designed for.

    So while you can probably (I'm really not 100% sure since this is not how others use 1Password) keep on doing what you're doing, I can't guarantee that will continue to work and/or be easy (relatively speaking) for you. I'd like to get a better sense of what you're trying to accomplish by doing that to see if there's something we can help with or improve so you can get the most out of 1Password -- and make your experience both more convenient and secure. I look forward to hearing back from you. :)

  • Patience won't be a problem. You folks have always been very helpful.

    Re: XKCD, I always enjoyed his take on things and your pick is very appropriate.

    Let me try to fill in some of what I left out of my first post of this thread.

    Way back when you offered a Family License for 1PW that is what I purchased and I convinced (forced?) two of my older family members to use 1PW to manage their passwords. I set them each up with the app with browser extensions installed and off they went.

    Soon both of them were complaining that 1PW wasn't working right with some of their web sites. Since I'm the family's tech support guy, it was left to me to answer their complaints and to try to figure out what was going wrong.

    Keep in mind that this was a long time ago (I wish I had documented the whole thing but unfortunately I did not), but the best I could figure, some web site login pages were configured in such a way that the browser extension couldn't figure out the correct fields to pull from or fill to and therefore for my family members on those websites, 1PW wasn't working.

    My solution at the time was to remove the browser extensions, turn off autofill and "train" my family members to use the copy/paste manual method that I describe in my first post. That is what all three of us has done since then and to this day and there hasn't been a single complaint about 1PW "not working" since.

    So, while I expect that I can manage to use v7 however it works, I don't want to have to face a new round of complaints from my family about 1PW being "broken" again if they are forced to use autofill with browser extensions and it doesn't "just work" with all the websites that they use.

    So, my "workflow" is mostly a selfish one. It has kept my family members from issuing the rash of complaints I was getting and it happens to be how I also use 1PW v6 so that I am staying consistent with how my family uses it.

    Hopefully I have explained this in a way makes sense and helps you understand how I'd like to be able to use v7 (when I transition the family to it) in a similar way that we now are using v6.

    You mentioned that Autosubmit had to be removed for Mohave. Are folks in that situation doing something similar to what I describe or is there some other solution you have provided?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @trclayton58: Thanks for getting back to me! The additional explanation helps a lot. :chuffed:

    Let's just get this out of the way: 1Password cannot fill correctly at every website out there. That's just the reality. With trillions of websites, very few are setup the same way, and probably most of them we haven't even seen. It works well with many websites, but we're always working to improve 1Password's filling logic by investigating specific issues that our customers tell us about, and also making more general changes to help 1Password be smarter in places we aren't even aware of.

    I definitely know the role of "family tech support guy" well. But keep in mind a few things: part of what you're paying for with 1Password if for us to help, and frankly if you're hogging all the feedback we're not going to be able to use it to make 1Password better for everyone's family. So I'd encourage you to reach out to us with the details if you or your loved ones have difficulty. I can't promise we will always have the perfect solution right away, but especially testing website issues we can often offer workarounds, and find ways to make 1Password better for everyone going forward -- which in turn means you can get fewer "support calls" yourself. ;) Also, if your family is anything like most, there are probably just a handful of sites they use regularly, so once we find a solution of whatever issues they're having, they may never encounter another again!

    And as far as issues in the past, it's like a lot has changed since then, both with 1Password, and the websites and browser themselves. So I'd encourage you to give it another shot, and let us know if you encounter any issues in the present. Put another way, what do you have to lose? If you use ⌘ \ to fill a Login at a website, and it doesn't work, you'd need to copy and paste anyway. But if it does, that's saved you -- or your family -- some time and effort, which really adds up. :)

    Regarding Autosubmit, it's pretty straightforward: the vast majority of websites accept an Return keystroke in the password field to submit the form. Heck, that's how Autosubmit worked! And we make an effort to have 1Password leave focus on the password field after filling, and that works on most websites. So what you're looking at is pressing ⌘ \ to fill, and then Return to submit the login form. A lot of people -- myself included -- have preferred this for a while now anyway, because it gives you a chance to make sure you don't need to do anything else on the page before moving on -- for example, CAPTCHAs, checkboxes for "remember me", etc.

    I can't think of why you'd have any trouble -- or even notice a difference -- copying passwords in 1Password 7 versus 1Password 6...but I also have been using 1Password 7 for over a year, so there may be something I'm forgetting, or something I don't know about your particular workflow. Personally, when I do need to copy and paste a password (it happens, especially when I need to sign into an app instead of a website), I just hit ⌘ ⇧ C -- that's been a long-standing shortcut to copy the password from the selected item, and I can't even remember what year that was added.

    That's all a bit more on the technical side, but hopefully that helps. Ultimately, I think it's best to just try it yourself, see how it goes, and let us know so we can help.

    However, taking a look from the "licensing" side of things, you should definitely check out 1Password Families. That includes 5 family members in the base price. It also allows you to easily share vaults securely and help family members recover their accounts if they get locked out — along with many other benefits.

    It's always hard to say, especially if you're used to using the Mac app, but maybe 1Password X would be a good fit for your family. It's a fully browser-based version of 1Password available for Firefox and Chrome (-based browsers), and many people find it easier to use, since it is accessible right from the webpage:

    But that is included along with all of the apps in a 1Password membership, so you could use the Mac app instead if you prefer that, even if your loved ones like 1Password X.

    Anyway, probably best to give the new stuff a test drive yourself and then see about the family. Let me know what you think. :)

  • brenty,

    I greatly appreciate your candid discussion.

    I sounds like I'll be able to come up with configurations that will work with my family.

    I intend to keep supporting Agilebits and 1Password and a Family subscription should serve us well.

    Now I just have to find the right time (and way) to transition the rest of my family. Both of them are older folks and any time I have to change anything about the way they use their computers (thankfully I got them both on Macs some time ago) there is a very strong "freak-out" reaction and lots of pushback regarding "why" and "what if it breaks something".

    I'm sure others have experienced the same reactions when being the tech support for older members of their family. I'll just have to carefully pick my times when other parts of their lives are relatively calm.

    Regarding me giving v7 a try before I roll it out to my family-- I have a Macbook Air that is held in reserve and not used that often. Can I install v7 there using Dropbox sync while leaving the rest of my family on v6 (and not affecting their v6 use of 1PW), giving me a chance to become "experienced" at using v7 before rolling it out to the rest of my family?

    Basically, can v6 and v7 be used at the same time (on different computers) to access the same 1PW data on Dropbox? I guess I'm asking if I can transition my family one user at time from v6 to v7 and then later from Dropbox sync to using 1password.com sync one user at a time without affecting the other users during the transition process.

    If this can be done, I can be better prepared to manage tech support for the rest of my family when they start using v7.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Hi @trclayton58 :)

    Regarding me giving v7 a try before I roll it out to my family-- I have a Macbook Air that is held in reserve and not used that often. Can I install v7 there using Dropbox sync while leaving the rest of my family on v6 (and not affecting their v6 use of 1PW), giving me a chance to become "experienced" at using v7 before rolling it out to the rest of my family?

    You can do this, provided your operating system on this MacBook Air is recent enough. What version of macOS is it currently running?

    Basically, can v6 and v7 be used at the same time (on different computers) to access the same 1PW data on Dropbox? I guess I'm asking if I can transition my family one user at time from v6 to v7 and then later from Dropbox sync to using 1password.com sync one user at a time without affecting the other users during the transition process.

    Yes, you can do this. The only requirement, I think, is that your 1Password data should be in the .opvault format in order for both v6 and v7 to be able to read and write it. But if you are already using .opvault, then things should definitely work :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @trclayton58: Likewise, thanks for your reply. I understand completely. :)

    In case it helps you or your loved ones, I wanted to add that the app/extension is the same whether you're using 1Password with a subscription or a license. So it's not like you need to re-learn/-teach a whole new thing.

    Also, worst-case scenario, if you run into an issue with Login filling, you can still copy and paste. It's just a more convenient and secure option. :)

    Finally, as the family Organizer, there is a lot you can do to make things easy for your family members. For example, if you share a new vault with them, it will automatically show up in their account on their devices; they won't actually have to do a thing themselves.

    Anyway, if you or your loved ones have any questions along the way, please let me know. Happy to help in any way I can. :)

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