Transferring vault data between the standalone and membership apps

Hello,

1) How do you transfer your vault data from the standalone app to the membership subscription app?
2) Is it possible to transfer the vault data from the membership subscription app to the standalone app?
3) This might be more technical, but how secure are the memberships? Having everyone's sensitive data, while encrypted, in one place makes it a huge target.

Thanks!

Comments

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Hi @ScarySulley!

    1) How do you transfer your vault data from the standalone app to the membership subscription app?

    If you have added your 1Password account to the 1Password app already, you can move your items from your Primary vault to your Personal vault in your account.

    2) Is it possible to transfer the vault data from the membership subscription app to the standalone app?

    Yes, following the same procedure of step 1, but in the other direction.

    3) This might be more technical, but how secure are the memberships? Having everyone's sensitive data, while encrypted, in one place makes it a huge target.

    When it comes to the encryption, Memberships are more secure than standalone vaults. This is because they use the Secret Key to make the encryption stronger.

    For a more general overview of the Security, I recommend reading out Security page.

    I hope this helps!

  • Hi @ag_ana,

    Thank you for your reply!

    If you have added your 1Password account to the 1Password app already, you can move your items from your Primary vault to your Personal vault in your account.

    So doing this basically adds the empty membership vault locally to the app? I would then move the items/data from my pre-existing vault to the new empty membership vault? After this, my standalone vault would be empty and the membership vault would have all the data?

    If that is correct, could the now empty standalone vault be deleted leaving only the membership vault so as not to have two vaults? Also, what is the difference between the local standalone vault and the added membership account vault? Are they both OPVaults?

    I may not quite understand, so my questions may not make sense.

    Yes, following the same procedure of step 1, but in the other direction.

    I was told a while back by @brenty that this was not recommended. That the way the membership account vault data was designed, it could not easily be "converted" to a local vault (opvault).

    I asked:

    8) If someone does choose the subscription way, either a new or existing customer, are they able to switch to the standalone version at a later time?

    @brenty answered (see bolded):

    Yes, but this isn't recommended for a few reasons: they'd have to buy a license for every platform they want to use, and local vaults do not support the data structures (especially linking and Documents) of 1Password.com. So migrating the data may be manual and/or lossy to some extent. Add to that the fact that if you have more than one vault in 1Password.com, that will be multiplied by those.

    Is this still an issue with the steps described above? Local vaults not supporting data structures, linking and documents, and possible lossy migration, etc...

    When it comes to the encryption, Memberships are more secure than standalone vaults. This is because they use the Secret Key to make the encryption stronger.

    For a more general overview of the Security, I recommend reading out Security page.

    Okay, I will look into this further.

    Thank you for your assistance!

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley

    So doing this basically adds the empty membership vault locally to the app?

    Assuming the 1password.com accounts vaults are empty, yes. If they have data in them already, that will be added also. What you're doing with these steps is adding your 1password.com account to your local app, whatever the contents are.

    I would then move the items/data from my pre-existing vault to the new empty membership vault?

    Yes.

    After this, my standalone vault would be empty and the membership vault would have all the data?

    Yes.

    If that is correct, could the now empty standalone vault be deleted leaving only the membership vault so as not to have two vaults?

    Not only could, but should. If you leave the now-empty Primary (standalone) vault in the 1Password for Mac app, then the app will still unlock with that vault's Master Password, and you run the risk of accidentally storing new Login items, etc, in the OLD vault. It's much safer, cleaner and more streamlined to remove the now-unnecessary standalone (Primary) vault.

    Also, what is the difference between the local standalone vault and the added membership account vault? Are they both OPVaults?

    No. Well, not really. "OPVault" was never the actual vault anyway; that's just the format of the sync keychain you store in Dropbox (or a folder) when you set up sync for a standalone vault. The actual vault in 1Password for Mac itself is in an encrypted SQLite database. With 1password.com accounts, all sync is handled via the 1password.com servers, and it's not in OPVault format. But there is still the local SQLite database.

    I was told a while back by @brenty that this was not recommended.

    Well, it's not -- but I think you're confusing a few things. The reason it's not recommended to do this is because there's no need, not because it's inherently risky. Other than the fact that Documents don't exist in standalone 1Password, the only real risk is in getting confused about what's where, and having unnecessary vaults with potentially duplicate copies of data confusing you. I have to ask: why would you WANT to do this? If you have a paid-up, functioning 1password.com account, what would be the point? Just because you can?

    That the way the membership account vault data was designed, it could not easily be "converted" to a local vault (opvault).

    This is the part I think you're misunderstanding. There is no "local app" vs "subscription app." All users use the same 1Password 7 for Mac app, and you can use it with either standalone data, 1password.com accounts, or both. We do not recommend using both at the same time, for the reasons you've already seen us elaborate. But there's no "conversion" process to move data between the two, nor any separate app: you would simply (as ag_ana said) move your data using these instructions from the account's vault back into a standalone vault. You would need to move any Documents items separately by downloading them in Finder, then re-attaching them to various records in the standalone vault, because Documents do not exist in standalone vaults, only direct attachments. This is part of why we say "don't" -- because there ARE ways to go wrong, through not knowing how to preserve your data, but chiefly - and I want to stress this again - because it isn't necessary. There's just no reason to do this. You can do it, but I would really ask you to consider: why would you want to? Think of it this way: You could wake up this coming Saturday morning and decide you want to completely disassemble your car's engine, in your own garage, then re-assemble it. If you have a few tools, this could be done. But there are definitely areas where you could go quite wrong and even do damage, and...for what? You're asking us direct questions about whether something can be done -- so we're giving you the correct answer - yes - while still urging you not to do this, because it's not recommended.

    Our goal is to help you secure and use your most important data. Sometimes, that requires moving data or converting older formats into new...but these things aren't risk-free, and we're not going to recommend them as a "just because" exercise.

    I would recommend that you make your choice regarding 1password.com accounts, then follow your decision. If you decide after you make your choice, for some reason you didn't anticipate in advance, that you have to move back, we'll be here to help you and ensure you don't lose anything.

  • Hi @Lars,

    Thank you the info!

    I see you're mentioning 1Password 7. I'm actually not using that version but rather 1Password 6 for Mac and 1Password 4 for Windows, as well as 1Password for iOS and Android which I believe are the latest versions. Not sure if that matters.

    No. Well, not really. "OPVault" was never the actual vault anyway; that's just the format of the sync keychain you store in Dropbox (or a folder) when you set up sync for a standalone vault. The actual vault in 1Password for Mac itself is in an encrypted SQLite database. With 1password.com accounts, all sync is handled via the 1password.com servers, and it's not in OPVault format. But there is still the local SQLite database.

    Yes, I remember the "OPVault" isn't the actual vault. So the OPVault, or rather it's equivalent, is on the 1Password.com server (more on this at the end of this post). Similar to Dropbox syncing with the OPVault.

    Well, it's not -- but I think you're confusing a few things. The reason it's not recommended to do this is because there's no need, not because it's inherently risky. Other than the fact that Documents don't exist in standalone 1Password, the only real risk is in getting confused about what's where, and having unnecessary vaults with potentially duplicate copies of data confusing you. I have to ask: why would you WANT to do this? If you have a paid-up, functioning 1password.com account, what would be the point? Just because you can?

    What do you mean by "Documents?"

    As far as confusion is concerned, isn't it just a simple process of moving the items from one vault to the other? Membership vault to the standalone vault (and vice versa). I've never done this before, so I could be missing something.

    As far as "why" I want to do this, is basically because I want to be sure there is a relatively easy way to go back and it's not a one-way thing.

    This is the part I think you're misunderstanding. There is no "local app" vs "subscription app." All users use the same 1Password 7 for Mac app, and you can use it with either standalone data, 1password.com accounts, or both. We do not recommend using both at the same time, for the reasons you've already seen us elaborate.

    I was actually wondering after I posted whether or not there were two separate apps for both the membership and the standalone version. Thanks for clarifying that! But I'm assuming you need the latest version of 1Password to sign into a membership account?

    But there's no "conversion" process to move data between the two, nor any separate app: you would simply (as ag_ana said) move your data using these instructions from the account's vault back into a standalone vault. You would need to move any Documents items separately by downloading them in Finder, then re-attaching them to various records in the standalone vault, because Documents do not exist in standalone vaults, only direct attachments. This is part of why we say "don't" -- because there ARE ways to go wrong, through not knowing how to preserve your data, but chiefly - and I want to stress this again - because it isn't necessary. There's just no reason to do this. You can do it, but I would really ask you to consider: why would you want to? Think of it this way: You could wake up this coming Saturday morning and decide you want to completely disassemble your car's engine, in your own garage, then re-assemble it. If you have a few tools, this could be done. But there are definitely areas where you could go quite wrong and even do damage, and...for what? You're asking us direct questions about whether something can be done -- so we're giving you the correct answer - yes - while still urging you not to do this, because it's not recommended.

    So, as stated above, the "conversion" is merely copying data from one vault to the other and deleting the old and now empty vault to avoid confusion. Is the issue with the documents the only real issue when copying between a membership vault and a standalone vault? And for "why I would want to" that's answered above. ;)

    Our goal is to help you secure and use your most important data. Sometimes, that requires moving data or converting older formats into new...but these things aren't risk-free, and we're not going to recommend them as a "just because" exercise.

    I would recommend that you make your choice regarding 1password.com accounts, then follow your decision. If you decide after you make your choice, for some reason you didn't anticipate in advance, that you have to move back, we'll be here to help you and ensure you don't lose anything.

    Thank you for the advice. I'm also glad to know that I can "go back" if desired.

    To be sure I understand how the files/vaults work with the membership:

    • 1Password.com has a copy of the vault. Is this vault a combination of the sqlite file (or the sqlite equivalent) and OPVault?
    • The local app on our computer(s) have the sqlite file vault which syncs directly with the 1Password.com server and doesn't use a separate OPVault file first like it does with Dropbox.

    Thanks again for your assistance! :)

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley

    What do you mean by "Documents?"

    I mean the new-for-1password.com-accounts Documents category. In standalone 1Password, you could attach files directly to individual 1Password items. In 1password.com accounts, the direct-attachment style of allowing users to save files in 1Password has been replaced with the newer Documents format.

    I'm assuming you need the latest version of 1Password to sign into a membership account?

    No. Here’s the list of system requirements for various aspects of 1Password. On the Mac, version 6.6 of 1Password for Mac or greater is required for 1password.com accounts. If you have an account, you will need at least version 6.6 of 1Password for Mac. If you have a 1password.com account, however, it includes the latest versions of all 1password.com apps, so it's recommended to upgrade to 1Password 7 for Mac because a) there's no additional cost and b) it helps ensure compatibility. There's no reason to stay on older versions if you have a membership.

    Is the issue with the documents the only real issue when copying between a membership vault and a standalone vault?

    It's the only major issue to be aware of as a user, yes.

    1Password.com has a copy of the vault.

    Yes.

    Is this vault a combination of the sqlite file (or the sqlite equivalent) and OPVault?

    No. 1password.com does not use the OPVault format. If you look in ~/Library/Group Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits/Library/Application Support/1Password/Data/, if you have (or have ever had) both standalone data and a 1password.com account, you will see that there is a file (a database, actually) called B5.sqlite and a different one called OnePassword.sqlite. This is because they are not identical; if they were, we'd be able to use only one. But in neither case is OPVault used. You can interface directly with the server copy of your 1Password data via the web interface of 1password.com in a browser, but if you're using a 1Password application, you'll be making changes to the local copy, which will then be synced with the server. This is what allows you to have offline access when you may be temporarily away from an internet connection, out of range, on airplane mode, etc. We could have required an active connection, but that would've prevented offline use of 1Password, which was a non-starter for us.

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