Setup with standalone vault [restored for paid customers in 7.3.4]

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Comments

  • Yikes. Do not like the approach taken here with ‘legacy’ users. This should have been announced and more than a point release. Passive aggressive staff responses to genuine user concerns are shocking.

    I ended up taking the hard way to get to the subscription based model last year. I felt forced and do not like this new direction. Worried about you 1P!

  • edited July 2019

    Well, 1P this move was incredible bad... Did you thought about this use-case:

    • I've bought 1Password for iOS and created a vault (primary for private use)
    • Now I'm willing to create a 2nd vault for business passwords which I don't want to mix with my private ones

    If I don't need a sync and being able to handle backups via iTunes this is a perfect and also secure case.

    This case don't reflect me. I've bought any release of 1Password for any operating system since more than 10 years. With release of your Android and Windows version, I've bought both even when I don't have an Android or Windows device! Crazy, isn't it?

    Why? Because of I want to support you!

    Why no subscription? Because I want to support you when I'm able to do and not being forced by a subscription!

    Let me pay for a new iOS version! I don't need a free upgrade every year. That's fine for me.

    Wrong direction my friends...

  • I am disappointed in the way this thread has evolved into a pile on attack of this dev. As a
    30 year Mac user I find this developer to be great and very fair. The developer owned his mistake
    and is trying to satisfy all their customers. I am active in a few Mac forums... my biggest complaint
    about "expert users" as it relates to how they view devs is that they feel as though all software
    should be made around expert users. This thread illustrates that point over and over.

    In reality, 1Password needs to make the software so anybody can buy it and use it. The software must also
    fully protect the information these people enter automatically. The dev tried to explain this... LISTEN. He
    is not making this up nor trying to trick anybody.

    This doesn't mean they are not concerned about the expert users with uniques situations. This thread
    also proves that point.

    As a customer for at least a decade, I know the metal these guys are made of. I honestly do not believe there
    was any malice intended... I accept the apology and believe it was not a malicious act to begin with.

    I love the product and trust the people behind it.

  • Original poster here:

    I have essentially the same workflow as @Tyler Duzan mentionned on page 3. I do delete 1P often and recreate empty vaults and AirDrop to that. I always had paid versions of 1P, including 1Password Pro on iOS.

    This is nothing against subscription pricing but rather, a specific technical use case that always worked until it was taken away silently 12 hours before I needed it. I am thankful @MrRooni finally came in to say it was omitted because they thought it would be unnoticed, even though when I created the thread I kept asking if it was omitted or forgotten and could not get a clear answer but rather confusing ones, as well as reminders that data that is not backed up could be lost (even though from the beginning I state this is a precise workflow, not my main way of using 1Password). Thanks for jumping in with actual answers. I was surprised someone did, I had not checked the thread in a few days, but it seems all it took was for the thread to hit Reddit and Y Combinator to get some movement.

    Some concerns voiced by 1P and workarounds suggested:

    "Users who don't sync will lose data" - I understand this, you could make this feature hidden in advanced with a DANGEROUS warning.

    "Just create a vault from iCloud on a Mac" - does not really work, because you can only share your master vault on iCloud from a Mac, and I'm not about to start messing with my actual master vault to create an empty vault and then restore the old one.

    "Just use Dropbox to create an empty vault" - I'm pretty sure this would work but there is no way I'm installing 3rd party software on my Mac just for this.

    I will try the workaround proposed by @MrRooni - AirDropping multiple things I need at once and "Opening in" a brand new 1P install and report back, probably tomorrow.

  • MrRooniMrRooni

    Team Member

    Good to see you again here, @gross. We're in the final review on the changes that will bring back standalone vault creation for paid customers as well as repairing the inability to restore from a backup during initial setup.

    If you run into any trouble with my workaround in the mean time please let me know, I'm happy to help out.

  • nagapownagapow
    edited July 2019

    I have been following this thread - i care about the issue because I too love 1Password and paid for it on different platforms.

    I have been trying to think of examples how the change impact on users in real life. Below is a scenario that I think is very possible, and please correct me if I misunderstand.

    Say I am a light computer user, and I only use iPads/iPhones for all of my computer needs. Before 1Password removed the ability to create standalone iOS vaults in v7.3.3, the iOS app would give the '1Password experience' without having to already own a laptop/desktop computer. And because I like 1Password on iOS so much, I upgraded to the 'Pro' features (this was availbale via in app purchase for £9.99). All is good, I am able to use 1Password, on its own, on iOS without computers, without sync. Great.

    Note that 1Password on iOS has been free on the app store, and there was no indication to the users at the time that, core function may be pulled at developer's will, especially when the user had paid for the 'PRO' features upgrade.

    Now, I update to the v7.3.3 version without knowing the ability to create standalone vaults has been removed. This was not communicated to me via change log or any other means. Everything still works. Great. However, one day, I decided I wanted to build my iOS vault from scratch. I removed the app and reinstalled it only to find that no more, I cannot create standalone vaults anymore unless I create a vault with 1Password on a computer, and sync it with iOS via iCloud/Dropbox.

    The problem is I don't want 1Password on Mac - I don't use it, my iOS is my main device and that is how I always used 1Password and how it was sold to me, and was why I bought the 'Pro' upgrade.

    Note that in v7.3.3, the 'PRO' features upgrade has been removed, as it is now part of the default set of features for iOS 1Password. So not only spending the money to upgrade was a waste of money, I would also have to pay extra for the Mac/Windows license, only to get the exact same functionality as before and with the extra steps of setting up cloud syncing?

    So I am double charged and made to sign up and manage useless cloud services? This is the problem that I have boiled down to with the unannounced change that 1Password made to v7.3.3 of its iOS app.

    Please enlighten me if my logic is flawed.

  • The situation decried by @nagapow does not only apply for light users. With the introduction of iPadOS, iOS is becoming much more capable nowadays. Many people start to use iOS devices as primary devices. The last update made 1Password iOS a companion to desktop versions, therefore an “incapable” second citizen in the family.

  • Thank you @brenty for your reply.

    You and your colleagues laid out that removing this feature was a mistake and that there are more users affected by this than you thought.

    However this is not only the point. As many others pointed out, this is another communication error in many ways.
    Removing features without telling anyone or mentioning in release notes is a no go!
    As people like myself point this out, your comments are in no way professional, writing sentences in a condescending tone like:

    “You have the luxury of not having to care about what happens to other people’s data, so long as yours is safe; we don’t.”.

    Comments related to this have been mostly ignored, if not at all.

    @Tyler Duzan can most probably relate to the problems I am talking about. You have the luxury to remove features at your own will. People like @Tyler Duzan and myself have to deal with the consequences that can be dead serious! And we dont even have to talk about China or Saudi Arabia, this also applies to Europeans travelling to the US getting interrogated, imprisoned, threatened and force to handover logins, accounts and credentials.

    @brenty you also pointed out how much you care about your customers data.
    Which is good, given the sensitivity of the data stored in 1Password by users.
    But at the very same occasion your behaviour incredibly diminish peoples trust in your software.
    Right now I do no longer trust Agilebits, because I am afraid that with the next update you might kill standalone licenses at all.
    And if anyone wants to continue accessing their data, they have to buy an expensive subscription.
    By the current way Agilebits is proceeding, I am currently afraid that my data will be taken hostage.
    Which is the exact same threat model you claimed for yourself above. I have a software that stores incredibly sensitive and vital information and I am at risk to lose this data not because of data loss, but because of your unpredictable business model.

    Just to make this clear, I really like the software, I always recommended it, I promoted at my workshops and I come from an IT / Dev background, so I know what it means to deliver software and services.
    But right now I can no longer recommend the software or service with good faith.

    And it seems like I am not the only one.

    @spuch

    While I can understand a little bit from a commercial point of view what your strategy (which I personally don’t like) is for new people (who can of cause decide on their own if they want to use the somewhat dictated way or not), I cannot understand why you affront loyal customers who supported you for many years in such a way. That makes me sad!

    @cehaderach

    I championed 1Password as one of the darling of the Mac platform. In the
    last year+ though, I do not mention this company when I talk to new users.

    @rxguy

    I ended up taking the hard way to get to the subscription based model last year. I felt forced and do not like this new direction. Worried about you 1P!

    I hope you and the team will honestly take this feedback to reconsider the way you approach your clients.

    Kind regards,
    Tom

  • MrRooniMrRooni

    Team Member

    You're absolutely right, Tom. This was a pretty big mistake on our part from a number of angles. Trust is hard won and easily lost, and I don't begrudge anyone in this thread for thinking less of us after this incident.

    I can tell you that we'll never lock you out of your data, hold your data hostage, or otherwise prevent you from getting access to it in an update; and we won't. At the end of the day, though, actions matter more than words. Hopefully we can win back your confidence with our actions over time.

  • miamia
    edited July 2019

    @MrRooni

    Michael,
    As someone who purchased 3x licenses for 1Password Pro on iPhones, 2 Windows license (4x and 7x) and 1 Mac license I have myself to the crowd that I am getting very concerned about my future with 1Password.

    I am in a IT Director position at a big hospital and I have recommended your products to more people than I can count. It is an absolute joy to use your software every day and I have come to rely on it so heavily, that it makes me worried when I see stuff like this.

    The problem in question doesn't affect me at all as I use Dropbox to sync my data between my devices. I don't want to go with the 1Password subscription model and never did. In fact, when your company was initially edging that way, I took all my data and moved it over to another product only to bring it back when standalone windows version was released.

    With that said, I won't beat a dead horse since everyone else eloquently voiced their vociferous concerns about what happened here. It's sad to say this won't be the last time for Agilebits. When a company gets as popular and as prosperous as you guys do, you begin to cater to businesses more and more and forget the base that made you great. Why do I say that? Because your company has a history of doing this.

    Think WLAN
    Think 'we have no plans to change our model' via one of the support here, only to have THE NEXT DAY OR WEEK after Apple's announcement of family sharing enabling on iPhone to move to In-App Subscription.

    Honesty is a rare commodity, but I sincerely believe you guys mean well, but in the end you're looking out for your business and not your core users. My logins & passwords is some of the most precious data I have. If I can't trust you guys to hold it, I can't continue to support and I have already stopped recommending the product to anymore friends. In fact, just yesterday I stopped someone from switching from LastPass to you. Is LastPass better? Of course not, but I cannot stake my reputation on a product that may do a 180 the very next day. It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and 5 minutes to destroy it.

    It seems based on the tone of what I am hearing from support these days here, Agilebits needs a little help with how they converse with their customers. I know it's a tough job dealing with people like us, but we're here because we love your product and we love you guys.

    Please don't betray that trust or us just to push us into a subscription scheme we don't want and will not support.

    @brenty I think you have a difficult job here, trying to please everyone; please understand from our perspectives that we love 1Password. If I didn't love your product, I wouldn't have even signed up on your forums and would've dumped your product in a New York minute and moved on. If we are angry it's because things have changed and broken our workflows. Please try to be understanding and more careful of the tone when discussing issues with customers. We love you, please love us back :(

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I understand completely and I'm sorry where we've let you or anyone else down collectively, or where I've personally caused any consternation. We can't please everyone, but we have a responsibility to try to do the most good for our customers. I'm sorry where we've failed in that regard, or, frankly, where we've succeeded in doing right by many but in the process caused problems for others. We don't always strike the right balance, and I think it's important that we receive constructive criticism when we fall short. There isn't going to be a way to please everyone, but clearly this is an instance where we not only should have handled it differently, but also where there was another option that struck a better balance. Software is perhaps a unique endeavor, since it can change significantly, seemingly overnight. That can certainly be scary since things don't always go right, especially when we're talking about something we use to safeguard such important data. But the flip side is that it isn't set in stone, and we can make adjustments as needed. So while I get where some people may have negative feelings toward us as a result of this episode, I do think there's reason to be optimistic, since we do listen and make adjustments, in spite of not always getting it right the first time. But it's up to us to continue to demonstrate that. Thanks for your honesty -- everyone -- and patience with us while we keep working at it. It's a process we're committed to because we love our customers. :chuffed:

    P.S. For the record, iCloud/iTunes backup/restore does not always put everything back where it belongs, so please, please [backup your data yourself if you're using local vaults with the standalone 1Password app. <3

  • Dear @MrRooni & @brenty,
    thank you for your feedback and your insights. I truly hope we can continue to enjoy your great software.
    Lessons learned, checked, lets proceed with cool stuff.

    I really hope that this was just a one time mistake and that we can count on you, also when it comes to standalone licenses.

    Thumbs up and lets learn and adjust accordingly.

    Tom

  • I stumbled upon this thread. Unfortunately I already updated to 1Password 7.3.5 on my iPad.

    The way things have been handled and how Agilebits staff responded makes me speechless. I strongly dislike the direction how 1Password is heading by silently removing features and pushing customers to 1Password.com subscription model. I am 1Password Mac user since v3 and I really love 1Password. I have recommended 1Password to lot's of clients and friends. I am definitely reconsider my choice.

    So what's next?
    @Agilebits, do you plan to drop the standalone licence as well?

This discussion has been closed.