Setup with standalone vault [restored for paid customers in 7.3.4]

grossgross
edited July 18 in iOS

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Hi,

I have a workflow where I use 1Password on my phone - locally, no sync, do not want sync, can not use sync. Obviously this is not my main way of using 1Password, which I have been using now since 2011, mostly on Mac and iOS.

On that phone, I often remove 1Password and reinstall it. The last time I did this was a few weeks ago, likely running 7.3.1 or 7.3.2.

Today, I needed to urgently do this again, and I reinstalled 1Password to realize the new onboarding screen does not seem to let me configure my local vault at all.

I looked at release notes - all I can see is that 7.3.1 had improvements to standalone vault syncing, which seems to mean standalone vaults still work, and 7.3.3 reduced the size of the app by 27%.

Is this a bug, am I dumb, or is this by design?

How do I go through this onboarding screen?

If this feature was removed, why was it not clearer in release notes, or was it clear and did i miss it? Should I restore my phone to a prior backup, just to regain the ability to use 1Password in standalone mode?


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Comments

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hi @gross

    I'm sorry for the trouble. 1Password no longer offers a free-to-use option on iOS. It can either be used with a 1Password membership account or it can be synced to a standalone vault created by 1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows. It wouldn't be possible to create a new standalone vault from 1Password for iOS. Standalone vaults still work, but must be created by a licensed product (1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows).

    Ben

  • So if I create an iCloud vault on my Mac, use that, I will then be able to disable sync from the phone?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    You could do that, yes. I just wouldn't recommend it. Having your data on only a single device is unfortunately a really great way to lose data, should anything ever happen to that device.

  • OK so, I checked, and I can't actually do that, 1Password for Mac only supports syncing the main vault with iCloud. It means I need to install Dropbox to be able to do what I always did I guess.

    And believe me, my data is not "on a single device", I just have a very precise use case where for a period of time I only need a local vault with a few items in it.

    A point release removed a critical piece of functionality for me, because it allowed users to use it for free, and I still can't see where I should've seen that in the release notes.

  • I also can't use Wi-Fi sync to do this, it forces you to also sync the primary vault, so I can't just sync an empty vault. Even if you disable sync, you can't delete the primary vault and make the secondary one the primary. I'm not going to install Dropbox on my Mac for this so I guess I'm all out of options, workflow deprecated by a minor update with zero notification (please prove me wrong on this, would love to know I missed something and that you didn't just blindly disable this). Was this part of what was removed to make the app "27% smaller"?

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    No, the fact that we're able to use some system libraries instead of having to bundle our own versions is what caused the 27% space savings. I do apologize about the situation with your specific workflow. You're right: iCloud and the WLAN Server do require syncing the Primary vault (with iCloud being able to sync only the Primary vault). Dropbox can sync any given standalone vault.

    Ben

  • So, if it wasn't the 27%, where was it mentioned? It was removed without any mention in the release notes? How can I trust an app that will remove things I use without any single mention?

    Was it removed in 7.3.3? 7.3.1? Before?

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    It was removed in v7.3.3.

    Ben

  • What I see for 7.3.3:

    New migration features to 1Password.com

    Size improvements.

    iOS 12.2 required.

    Bunch of bug fixes.

    Where is it mentioned that a critical function was removed?

    Was it forgotten, or deliberately not mentioned in the hopes nobody had a workflow that would make them notice this right away?

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @gross

    Was it forgotten, or deliberately not mentioned in the hopes nobody had a workflow that would make them notice this right away?

    We've got a user-base that's a sufficient size now that any change we make will affect at least a few people's workflow -- and they notice. So no, neither of those things. :)

  • grossgross
    edited July 9

    So it was not forgotten, nor deliberately omitted... guess I missed it. Where was it?

    Different communication channel I should subscribe to maybe?

    Thanks!

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @gross - sorry for not explaining more clearly: what I said by quoting your statement was that it's not the case the change was "not mentioned in the hopes nobody had a workflow that would make them notice this right away" -- as I said, we're quite aware people will notice ANY change we make. :)

  • The fact that you seem to think removing a major piece of functionality without mentioning that in the Release Notes is okay just baffles me. While this particular functionality doesn't directly impact me, it's still a disappointing move and has definitely impacted the way I look at the product and the company.

    It seems like a pretty deliberate way to move people to a subscription model. If that's what your intention is why not make it crystal clear where the business model and product are headed? At least that way your customers can make an informed decision if they want to use a subscription-based product or not.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    @TeeeTw0,

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Ben

  • I'm really disappointed by the loss of this feature and by the fact that no communication has been done to announce that change.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @subwarez - thanks for the feedback. Let us know if there's anything we can help you with.

  • @TeeeTw0 I'm totally with you, this is definitely not a fair move.

    It reminds me a little of the WLAN Sync feature in 1PW4 on Windows, which was not removed in Version 7 but simply not offered again. It's a pity, but from my point of view customers should be pushed to use the cloud service.
    What I don't understand is the fact, that in the past all changes were mentioned down to the smallest detail and this time functions were silently and secretly removed. Too bad that I was not made aware of it by the manufacturer of my confidence but by the German IT media (www.heise.de).

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @spuch: You seem to have a strange definition of "fair" with regard to us making our mobile apps free to use as companions to our desktop apps. :)

  • @brenty: The definition of "fair" is related to the way of communicating the removal of the feature.
    By the way, I have never asked for a free version of the mobile app, instead have paid for a Pro version of the app in those days (as well as for the desktop app) and I assume that this feature is removed for that users as well?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @spuch: Thanks for clarifying. All the Pro Features you paid for are still available to you. I don't think that's a "fair" word to use in this context, but I understand where you're coming from with regard to communication. We'll try to do better in the future. :)

  • @brenty While I am happy to see that you will try and do better in the future, you have the opportunity to do better now. If you actually intend on trying to do better than why not update the release notes to indicate this change? I understand that sometimes these things slip through the cracks but when they do we should own it and attempt to do everything possible to fix the issue.

  • edited July 12

    Can you please provide us a place to download the 7.3.1 version so we can continue to use the feature?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @areese159: The release notes are generated as part of the build process. I'm not sure that's feasible. I also don't know what purpose it would serve at this point, as the update is already out and you're already aware of it. We can review it though to see if there's a way to improve it. Thanks for the feedback.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @nickgraziano: 1Password for iOS, like all iOS apps, must be distributed through the App Store. It isn't feasible -- or a good idea -- for us to distribute it anywhere else.

  • Count me in as a long-time customer disappointed at this.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @Niklas: Sorry to hear that.

    As a long-time customer though, can't you use your existing vault?

    I'd like to understand what you're trying to do. Maybe there's something I can suggest.

  • I have use case similar to the original poster. I have not yet encountered it because it is only seldom required but important to be able to do

    I am disappointed in the fact that this was not communicated

    I am disappointed in the condescending tone you originally used when responding

    I am afraid that this is another “frog-boiling” way to push cloud subscription further weakening ownership of our own data

  • Also long time customer, also disappointed, also had a confusing experience recently related to pushing everyone over to subscriptions.

    Similar to the changes I noted here: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/104077/removing-1password-subscription-without-losing-access-to-primary-vault#latest

    I'm starting to feel vendor lock with my password manager which is not a good feeling.

  • the fact is that as a long-time customer i am disappointed that "secretly" this feature has been removed. but most of all it annoys me that people believe, the customer won't notice it to stroll slowly into a "subscription trap".
    And at some point the whole trust to your company is gone and then I will also close the more than 30 paid business accounts with you and look around at the competition. In a free world the user wants to have the free choice to use the cloud or not! Too bad guys

  • haafhaaf
    edited July 12

    Perhaps one could split the arguments in this thread into two categories; 1) forcing payment for some features is frustrating when it was free before, 2) stand-alone vault synchronisation features are disappearing because AgileBits thinks it's more secure and more convenient to work via 1P-accounts.

    As a five year old customer of both personal and company plans, I also see the disappearance of stand-alone synchronisation as a negative. I've brought it up with customer support and sales on multiple occasions.

    Unfortunately, the outcome of those conversations is always similar to this thread.

    Why not keep file sync? I asked;

    It's often mentioned that you may lose data with file sync. This, since 1P can't coordinate writes to the file system, between instances of itself.

    You could work around this by offloading the merge to the user and keep more metadata about history in the entity file; e.g. keep a logical clocks/epoch or dotted version vector serialised into each entity (login/card/...) file/folder to be synchronised.

    Merges could be shown in the UI and default to duplicating (to make it very safe); but realistically, you don't get merge conflicts when you modify your vaults and you're online in your sync software at the same time, because the computer is faster at modifying the vault than you are at switching machines.

    Or make it an alternative?

    Or you could reintroduce the feature as a read-only-vault, only to be modified from the desktop software or from the iPhone (whichever). This would be good since many people have 1P as part of their recovery plan; if the laptop crashes, passwords need to be shared back and then local files often trump setting up iCloud sync which itself requires a password stored in 1P.

    There's also a social aspect, that I think AgileBits employees are overlooking; that we users recommend their product, maybe as we sync select passwords — but we're not in a company together — so the disappearance of an easy way to do folder sync makes it harder to have a "the least you can eat" onboarding option for family and friends (especially those who don't want to purchase, or can't purchase a license, like kids in the family).

    I wish AgileBits would listen to some of their long-term customers and please re-enable file sync flows. Make it a paid feature if its removal is about revenue/cost.

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