Very difficult to login to Wells Fargo on iOS

jasimon9jasimon9 Member

I have posted before about how difficult this is.

Here is what I did today:

  1. Tap Wells Fargo app on my phone
  2. Tap in username field
  3. Tap iOS keyword symbol
  4. Tap iPassword on popup
  5. Try thumb button but nothing happens
  6. Enter my password for 1P.
  7. 1P does not position to the Wells Fargo login, but is at top of alphabet so I enter it into the Search
  8. Select the login.
  9. Go back to bank login, but nothing fills in.
  10. Start over again, and get requested my 1P password again/
  11. Remember from previous question on this forum that to avoid the 1P, should first login using the 1P app.
  12. Login using the 1P app.
  13. Go to Wells Fargo again
  14. Tap username field
  15. Tap Passwords Symbol
  16. Top 1P on popup
  17. In 1P, the again positions to top of alphabet, so enter Wells Fargo again
  18. Click on Wells Fargo login and it returns to Wells Fargo app.
  19. But it does not fill anything in, again.
  20. Go back to step 14 and repeat steps 14 through 20 three or four times.

Finally I get in.

This seems to happen every time with Wells Fargo (except the first 11 steps above are my fault).


1Password Version: 6.8.9
Extension Version: 4.7.5.90
OS Version: 10.14.6
Sync Type: Dropbox

Comments

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member
    edited August 3

    Hi @jasimon9!

    I see several Wells Fargo apps in the App Store, can you please post the URL of the app that you are using so we can make sure to test the right one?

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    In the meantime, so we don't waste time, I have tried testing this app, just in case it's the one you were referring to.

    In my test, 1Password filed everything correctly right away, so maybe we are looking at a different Wells Fargo app.

    Can you also confirm what version of 1Password for iOS you are using and what version of iOS you are currently running?

  • jasimon9jasimon9 Member

    I believe that is the app I am using. Since the previous advice, I always login to 1Password app first, even it it appears I am already logged in. I continue to have issues with Wells Fargo. Usually I have to try it 2 or 3 times before it fills. Here are the steps:

    1. Start Wells Fargo app.
    2. Tap in username field.
    3. Tap on Password link with key.
    4. Tap on 1Password.
    5. Press thumb on button to unlock.
    6. 1P appears on a page listing passwords alphabetically from "A" (unlike 1P mini, which positions to a matching entry with the website you have come from).
    7. Tap in search box.
    8. Type "wel" and 1P positions to Wells Fargo entries.
    9. Tap on Wells Fargo entry,
    10. About one time in three, the username/password fills. The other times, nothing fills. This lack of filling is my main complaint now.

    Hope this helps.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @jasimon9: Thanks for the additional information. This isn't something we can fix for you, as there are two components there, both entirely outside of 1Password:

    • iOS Password Autofill: This is what does the filling, and that's handled by the OS; when things fill incorrectly or not at all with this feature, it isn't something we have control over; but I'm sure that it will continue to be improved.
    • Supporting Autofill: However, individual apps need to properly use Apple's APIs in order for Autofill to work correctly; when you're seeing a list you have to search through, that's because the app developer has not added any "associated domains" to their app, so the OS can match login credentials to it; and if they have not done that, it's likely they haven't wired up the fields according to spec either, which can result in problems like you're describing.

    Autofill is built into the OS, so it can be available; but the app needs to identify their login forms to it correctly or it doesn't know how to interact with them. I'd suggest that you reach out to the bank to encourage them to update their app, as Autofill was released nearly a year ago with iOS 12, and there's more coming next month in iOS 13. :+1:

  • jasimon9jasimon9 Member

    I am going to try really hard not to get going on "autofill", which causes continual problems for the users of my company's website!

    Having set that aside for now, does your explanation cover the "sometimes works, sometimes does not". If is was an autofill flaw, seems like it would be consistent. Rather it seems like a timing issue, perhaps in either in the DOM or in javascript.

    Such a timing issue btw is very common with other 1P usage. I have a couple of websites I use very frequently, and it is commonly hit or miss whether it will fill in or not.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I am going to try really hard not to get going on "autofill", which causes continual problems for the users of my company's website!

    @jasimon9: I haven't seen or heard of anything like that, but I'm sure Apple would want to hear about it so they can continue improving it. :+1: We know from experience it's not easy to get filling to work across the vast range of websites out there, many of which do some pretty "creative" (read: non-confoming to web standards) things which make things harder for us and, frankly, their own users. But I would be curious if you get different results with the 1Password iOS extension:

    Use the 1Password extension to fill in Safari and apps on your iPhone and iPad

    Having set that aside for now, does your explanation cover the "sometimes works, sometimes does not". If is was an autofill flaw, seems like it would be consistent. Rather it seems like a timing issue, perhaps in either in the DOM or in javascript.

    That's a good thought. One thing I notice sometimes with trouble sites is that waiting a bit before filling helps, as there can be resources that are continuing to load. And, frankly, there's so much Javascript code being dumped into pages nowadays often their developers don't even know what's going on, and there can be some weird interactions as scripts continue to run in the background.

    Such a timing issue btw is very common with other 1P usage. I have a couple of websites I use very frequently, and it is commonly hit or miss whether it will fill in or not.

    We'd love to know the URLs so we can test them ourselves. We've got a great team working on improving the filling "Brain", and they have come up with some great tricks to get 1Password working in more places sight-unseen, but ultimately the best way to find a solution is to experience the problem firsthand and debug it. :)

  • jasimon9jasimon9 Member

    Routinely "hit or miss" fill in at Fidelity Investments and Citibank. Those are the worst regarding what appear to be timing issues. Also Google logins recently have been hard to deal with and I usually have to paste from 1P.

    Regarding autofill--you asked for it! The problem is that the Chrome and browser designers seem to have taken the view that "autofill for username and password must always work and all efforts of developers to defeat it must be overcome".

    The problem is that autofill often fills into the wrong fields. Most egregious is when you have a form for the user to update his email and password and the browser attempts to autofill. This causes many different types of problems too detailed to get into here, but you can get a flavor of the issues by "this email is already in use", and "form is not valid with only those two fields filled out". The simple autocomplete="off" was ignored by browsers starting probably 10 years ago. This is a real problem for our users. Autofill is something that should be disabled easily. Another use case is that users have the wrong credentials saved in their browsers, and cannot login, because they blindly just accept the stored credentials, which don't work.

    Over the years probably 10 - 20 workable hacks have been discovered, and systematically Chrome has defeated them all. We know this because over the years we have probably used a half dozen of them. It is now a lost cause, and Chrome's latest maneuver cannot be defeated. If your page has the text "Email" on it related to an input field, Chrome tries to autofill.

    A small sample of articles discussing the issues:

    In particular those chromium pages have many hundreds of posts describing why developers want to disable autofill. The stackoverflow page includes a mini-history of hacks that used to work.

    Thanks for having an interest.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @jasimon9: Likewise, thanks for sharing your perspective. :)

    Routinely "hit or miss" fill in at Fidelity Investments and Citibank. Those are the worst regarding what appear to be timing issues. Also Google logins recently have been hard to deal with and I usually have to paste from 1P.

    Honestly, though I have accounts with both, I just use their apps because their websites are both very mobile-unfriendly -- I imagine because they want people to use their apps. :lol:

    Regarding autofill, 1Password isn't perfect either. Sometimes it fills the wrong thing, so we're constantly working to improve it. We also ignore the autocomplete attribute because it's irrelevant to 1Password, according to its stated purpose:

    Autocomplete allows the browser to predict the value. When a user starts to type in a field, the browser should display options to fill in the field, based on earlier typed values.

    1Password simply doesn't work that way at all. And, frankly, I don't blame browsers for ignoring it for the same purpose either, since it is often abused by sites with the intent to prevent their users from using password managers to save and fill strong, unique passwords for each site. That just encourages people to reuse weak passwords. Anyway, all browsers give the user the option to disable autofill if they want too. I do, and we encourage 1Password users to as well, because it can cause confusion and conflicts.

    Ultimately, a good password is the first line of defense in online security, but many people can't remember them all or simply use (and reuse) bad ones. 1Password helps us use long, strong, unique passwords for each site, and secure them along with other important information we want to keep safe and sound. But not everyone uses 1Password, or dedicated password management software at all, so I'm glad that Google and other browser vendors have tried to help their users with this problem as well.

    Ultimately, while I'm sure that there are any number of reasons why someone might want to prevent autocomplete and/or autofill on their site, we need to look out for 1Password users, and Google needs to look after theirs. Most users across the board benefit from this kind of functionality. There are certainly some good points to be made all around, but I hope the irony of your woes trying to prevent autofill on the one hand but also benefit from it in other cases is not lost on you. Nothing is as simple as any of us wish it would be, but we continue to do our best. :)

  • jasimon9jasimon9 Member

    I should have made it more clear that my rant was not directed at 1P but rather at browser providers. I originally said I would try hard not to "get started". But you asked, so I said "Regarding autofill--you asked for it! " Also that it is not my personal use of the browser, in which I can easily turn off autofill, but for our users, over which we don't have that control.

    When our users have autofill enabled, it can cause problems that we would like to design around, but apparently no longer can. I can give you the details if that would help of the history of our workarounds, and why no such workaround can be effective any more.

    However, since you mentioned that you are "constantly working to improve" 1P filling, I will address this subject a bit more. When I first started using 1P about 10 years ago when I switched to the Mac, I immediately noticed how much poorer of job of form filling it did compared to my previous tool on Windows called Roboform. There is a clue in the names of the products: 1Password implies that it is for filling passwords, where as Roboform implies that it is for filling forms. To this day, 1P does not do as good a job as Roboform did 10 years ago on form filling. In the beginning I made several inquiries and posts about this, but gave up on it as the complaints did not seem to be going anywhere. Seems to me that the fuzzy logic or synonym processing of html tag id or name attributes is less robust on 1P.

    I am bringing this up again because I am wondering if it would help you to bring up specific examples. And perhaps a feature request that would allow user-specified fields to be filled. I understand I can add fields, but don't see a way to easily add ones that will fill. A good example of fields that do not fill is that on political contribution forms they always ask for "occupation" and "company'. I have those fields added to my Identities, but in 10 years they have never once filled.

    I do not want you to think of my input as negative, but rather in the spirit of helpfulness that could serve you in improving your product.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited September 5

    I should have made it more clear that my rant was not directed at 1P but rather at browser providers. I originally said I would try hard not to "get started". But you asked, so I said "Regarding autofill--you asked for it! " Also that it is not my personal use of the browser, in which I can easily turn off autofill, but for our users, over which we don't have that control.

    @jasimon9: Oh I understand completely. My point was that we're kind of doing the same thing the browsers are for the same (or similar) reasons. No offense taken! There are certainly different perspectives, but we need to focus on doing the most good for the greatest number of 1Password users we can. :)

    When our users have autofill enabled, it can cause problems that we would like to design around, but apparently no longer can.

    That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Honestly, we're in the same boat as you in that regard. There isn't a lot we can do about it, but one thing we recently started doing with 1Password X is having it offer to register itself as the default password manager in Chrome, to avoid users having to manually change those settings -- especially when there isn't a good way for us to direct them to do so otherwise. This doesn't help you on iOS, obviously, but I wonder if 1Password X might be useful to your users on the desktop both because it helps avoid autofill confusion and, frankly, because it's a great way to use 1Password in the browser. :)

    However, since you mentioned that you are "constantly working to improve" 1P filling, I will address this subject a bit more. When I first started using 1P about 10 years ago when I switched to the Mac, I immediately noticed how much poorer of job of form filling it did compared to my previous tool on Windows called Roboform. There is a clue in the names of the products: 1Password implies that it is for filling passwords, where as Roboform implies that it is for filling forms. To this day, 1P does not do as good a job as Roboform did 10 years ago on form filling. In the beginning I made several inquiries and posts about this, but gave up on it as the complaints did not seem to be going anywhere. Seems to me that the fuzzy logic or synonym processing of html tag id or name attributes is less robust on 1P. I am bringing this up again because I am wondering if it would help you to bring up specific examples.

    Specific examples definitely help! Feel free to post the details here, or email us at [email protected] with the info. We'll be happy to test to see what we can do to improve 1Password's filling. :)

    And perhaps a feature request that would allow user-specified fields to be filled. I understand I can add fields, but don't see a way to easily add ones that will fill. A good example of fields that do not fill is that on political contribution forms they always ask for "occupation" and "company'. I have those fields added to my Identities, but in 10 years they have never once filled.

    This isn't something that 1Password is designed to do, but as of recently if you add custom fields with the correct name, 1Password can often fill their contents into web pages. A lot of it depends on how the webpage is designed though, and, frankly, we're already seeing issues where things fill that people don't want to as a result of broadening the scope, so it's very much a work in progress.

    I do not want you to think of my input as negative, but rather in the spirit of helpfulness that could serve you in improving your product.

    Absolutely! Thanks so much for your passion and encouragement for us to make 1Password better. First and foremost, we do need to focus on login filling, since that's what the vast majority of our customers use 1Password for day in and day out. But we'd also like 1Password to be able to do more, better, with future releases. Thank you for helping us do that! :chuffed:

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