login confusion, and other things

Hey, I’m confused. So please be gentle. ;-)

I have a 1P membership, and have a vault for myself, and a shared vault for my wife. I’m the administrator and family tech guy. Recently, on her iPhone, she’s asked to log in anew. Okay. So first, a screen saying “Already using 1P?” Sign in w/1p.com…

Okay. So, we’re presented with:
Sign-in address:
email address:
Your secret key:
Master password:

Ummm, WHOSE sign-in, email, secret key, and master password? Mine? Hers? As the admin, I have a secret key, but we’re not aware of her having one. I have a sign-in address, but am not aware of her having one. And she has her own password, but since it’s asking for the master password, I’m not sure which to use. So whose what should be filled in here? (FWIW, I’m successfully signed in myself, and all is well, but I don’t know what info to fill in for her.)

Further, we would like her to only be able to view her vault, and not mine. (I think this kind of setup is allowed, legal, and proper under my 1P membership. Please let me know if I’m wrong. I do love 1P, and your vibe as a company, and want to be above-board in my use of your fine software.) Before this latest log-in weirdness, I do think she was able to view my vault in addition to hers, which isn’t what either of us wants. How do I accomplish this?

Also, in this same vein (and I’m likely missing something that you already have implemented, and if so, please forgive my ignorance), in the realm of shared vaults, I’d like the equivalent of Mac aliases, where if I have a login that’s shared with her in her vault, if I make changes to it in my master vault, it would automatically update in hers (since I’m the family system administrator/tech guy) without having to replace the item in her vault. As is, I’m not sure what is up to date in her vault or not. Confusing.

Speaking of confusing, I gotta say, agile bits people, I’ve been using 1P for a number of versions. I liked it when it was simpler. I gotta say that this new setup with memberships, various ways of synching, etc., is really confusing. I only just recently realized that our vaults in my dropbox were way out of date—no, obsolete—since I signed up for the membership a year or two ago. Duh. I would like to put my 2¢ for a simpler, more streamlined setup thang. Password managers such as 1P are supposed to make life easier, not more confusing. As is, I find it too confusing, and have spent more time than I would like reading your tech support articles on how to do things, and still am having to take the time to write to ask for your help. Help me, Obiwan Passwordi; you’re my only hope.

My 2¢.

As I said, I’m confused. Looking forward to getting her logged back in, and figuring out how to have her only able to view her vault, and me being able to view, and work with, both. Thanks, any and all.


1Password Version: 7.4.1
Extension Version: 7.4.1
OS Version: Mac OS 10.15.2, iOS 13.3
Sync Type: membership (1p.com)

Comments

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Hi @edly! Welcome to the forum!

    Ummm, WHOSE sign-in, email, secret key, and master password? Mine? Hers?

    Hers, if this is her phone.

    As the admin, I have a secret key, but we’re not aware of her having one.

    If you invited her to your account, she also received a Secret Key as part of the account creation process. It will be in her Emergency Kit.

    I have a sign-in address, but am not aware of her having one.

    If you are both users of the same 1Password account, the sign in address is the same one you are using.

    Further, we would like her to only be able to view her vault, and not mine. (I think this kind of setup is allowed, legal, and proper under my 1P membership. Please let me know if I’m wrong. I do love 1P, and your vibe as a company, and want to be above-board in my use of your fine software.) Before this latest log-in weirdness, I do think she was able to view my vault in addition to hers, which isn’t what either of us wants. How do I accomplish this?

    From what you are saying, I start to suspect something: if she sees your vault too, in addition to hers, are you sure you actually invited her as a separate user to your account? Is it possible that you have an Individual Membership instead?

    Also, in this same vein (and I’m likely missing something that you already have implemented, and if so, please forgive my ignorance), in the realm of shared vaults, I’d like the equivalent of Mac aliases, where if I have a login that’s shared with her in her vault, if I make changes to it in my master vault, it would automatically update in hers (since I’m the family system administrator/tech guy) without having to replace the item in her vault. As is, I’m not sure what is up to date in her vault or not. Confusing.

    If you use a Families account, any item that lives in a shared vault behaves exactly like this.

    I only just recently realized that our vaults in my dropbox were way out of date—no, obsolete—since I signed up for the membership a year or two ago.

    When you start using a Membership, your data starts syncing through 1Password.com. Dropbox is not required anymore, so it is expected that your data on Dropbox will be outdated. What is on 1Password.com will instead be the correct version.

  • Thank you, Ag-ana, for your wonderful reply. I apologize for not acknowledging it sooner. Lots of good information there. I'd like to start with what I think is the crux of what's going on. You wrote "From what you are saying, I start to suspect something: if she sees your vault too, in addition to hers, are you sure you actually invited her as a separate user to your account? Is it possible that you have an Individual Membership instead?" I don't have a family membership, so if that makes what I have an individual membership, then that's indeed what I have. But I somehow thought it was possible to have another person (my wife, in this case) share my membership, having her own vault which is distinct from mine, and for her to only see her vault—as well as have her vault items sync with those shared in my vault. But now, given what you wrote, I'm thinking that I was wrong. So am I now right in thinking I was previously wrong? ;-) And if so, is the only way to accomplish what I'm trying to do, to move to a family membership?

    Thanks,

    Edly

    PS: You wrote, "If you invited her to your account, she also received a Secret Key as part of the account creation process." I really don't believe that she got a separate secret key. I'm pretty organized and careful, and would've made note of it if she had.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member
    edited January 26

    @edly:

    I don't have a family membership, so if that makes what I have an individual membership, then that's indeed what I have. But I somehow thought it was possible to have another person (my wife, in this case) share my membership, having her own vault which is distinct from mine, and for her to only see her vault—as well as have her vault items sync with those shared in my vault.

    What you are looking for is not possible with an Individual Membership. But it is indeed possible with a Families account, which was built exactly so multiple people could share items, while still being able to keep some data private.

    But now, given what you wrote, I'm thinking that I was wrong. So am I now right in thinking I was previously wrong? ;-) And if so, is the only way to accomplish what I'm trying to do, to move to a family membership?

    Yes, you would have to move to a Families Membership.

    "If you invited her to your account, she also received a Secret Key as part of the account creation process." I really don't believe that she got a separate secret key. I'm pretty organized and careful, and would've made note of it if she had.

    This seems to confirm my previous suspicion that she was not invited to create her own account, and that instead you shared your login information with her. Basically, I think she is simply accessing your personal account, and that is why she is able to see your vault. The only way this can happen is if she is logging in to your account, with your credentials, instead of her own.

  • Ahhh, again, thank you for such good clarification. I'm much less confused now. So out of curiosity, is sharing an individual membership, as I have been doing, allowed in the 1P terms of service, or have I actually unknowingly been in violation of those terms? If the latter, then whoops, and I'll ask her whether she wants to continue using 1P and we'll get a family membership, or whether she'd just like to use iCloud Keychain for the sake of simplicity. She's someone who likes her tech life to be as simple as possible, and it took some convincing from me to get her to start using 1P at all, instead of using just a couple passwords across many sites.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    @edly:

    We haven't imagined multiple users to user the same Individual account, so this is not a use case we prepared for. But a Families account would do exactly what you are looking for, so I recommend giving it a try if you manage to convince her :)

    You can always convert it back to an Individual account later on, should you realize she is not using it as much.

  • Okay. Thank you again.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    You are welcome! If you have any other questions, please feel free to reach out anytime.

    Have a wonderful day :)

  • Hi again. I upgraded to 1P Families, and followed instructions. I expected things to work as I referred to previously in this thread—that copies 1P items would act like Aliases on the Mac, where if after copying an item (to another family member's vault), I made changes to the original, the copied item would reflect these changes. I wanted to make sure before I went too far, so I did exactly that: copied an item to a another family member's vault, then went back to the original in my vault, made a change, then went back to the "same" item in my other family member's vault, and that item was unchanged. So unless I'm doing something wrong, shared/copied items do not actually act like aliases as you had said, but as actually separate and distinct items. What am I not understanding here? Or was what you wrote above in this thread about aliases actually incorrect? I'm confused again.

  • Sorry: a typo: "referred to previously in this thread—that copied 1P items would act like Aliases

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    @edly:

    So unless I'm doing something wrong, shared/copied items do not actually act like aliases as you had said, but as actually separate and distinct items.

    That is because you duplicated this item, and you are now trying to update the one in your vault, instead of the one in the shared vault. From one of my previous posts:

    If you use a Families account, any item that lives in a shared vault behaves exactly like this.

    Notice how I wrote "in a shared vault". Instead you wrote that you "went back to the original in my vault, made a change," so you did not modify the item in your shared vault, you modified another copy.

    In order for items to behave the way you want, you need to make sure you move them to the shared vault, and that you make changes to that version. If you copy them instead (as you wrote you did), you are duplicating them, so you would have to update every copy of that item (as you now have more than one). If you want to only have to update the item once, you don't have to duplicate it, but rather you have to move it to the shared vault, so there will be only one copy of it.

  • That totally makes sense. Thanks so much. I guess the instructions I found via a web search were misleading, or I misunderstood them. In any case, thanks for your much clearer—and righter—explanation!

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    You are welcome @edly! We are always here should you need anything :)

    Have a great weekend!

  • Okay, I already need something. Sooooo, I went through the process of making the family account, making shared vaults for my wife and son, and set up my wife's iPhone with the new family account. All went well. Then, on our shared Mac, we logged into her Mac account, booted 1P, and tried logging in with her new family account password. It was refused, several times. Then the hint came up, and that landed us into her old (non-family) account, where she was just piggy-backing on my individual account. I scratched my head, and then tried deleting the agilebits preferences in her library, thinking that that might give us a clean slate from which to start. I tried again, but it was the same.

    So how do we tell 1P on the Mac that we want to start fresh, with our new family account, and delete (or whatever) what she had when she was piggybacking on my individual account?

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    @edly:

    So how do we tell 1P on the Mac that we want to start fresh, with our new family account, and delete (or whatever) what she had when she was piggybacking on my individual account?

    If you don't need anything inside the current 1Password app, you can delete all of its contents by starting over, so you can add your new Families account to the app.

  • Thanks. If I were to start over and delete everything on 1P from her Mac home account on our shared Mac, would everything in the new Families account still be intact? On my own Mac home account (which uses the same 1P app) everything is fine, and it boots to the new Families account, and I wouldn't want to lose any of that data. I see that it says on your Starting Over page, "The next time you open 1Password, you’ll be asked to create a new vault or sign in to your account. You can also use existing 1Password data that you might have on another computer or device." If I am understanding this all correctly, that means that all the data would indeed still be intact, and all we'd need to do after starting over, would be to log into 1P from her Mac home account, using her new Families account password. Correct? I want to be sure, because obviously, I don't want to lose any data in our Families account.

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    @edly:

    If I am understanding this all correctly, that means that all the data would indeed still be intact, and all we'd need to do after starting over, would be to log into 1P from her Mac home account, using her new Families account password. Correct?

    Correct. Starting over deletes all of the data in that particular app, including all local vaults that might be saved on that device only, which will be unrecoverable after the deletion. But if all your data is in your Families account, that data will not be touched and will remain where it is.

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