Started by aplnub, 10 Jun 2013
I am staying with 1Password but this has to be a blow in some way to all the Password helpers.
Apple will have a Sync Keychain and password generator in their next version of Safari 7
part of 10.9.x
Hopefully v4 will have major enhancements and add-ons
Yep. We watched the keynote too.
We'll have more to say soon, but, as you know, we don't discuss future plans.
a pressing question!
As they said on twitter, since icloud keychain can now store your credit cards data, NSA's PRISM is going to go self-funding. Seriously doubt that'll be a huge selling point to lure away 1Password users :D
Yeah... I think I now know why 1Password for Mac went on sale for half-price a little over a week ago. I'll continue to use it, as I didn't see anything in the keynote about password generation, and the Mac keychain also won't fill in the security codes for my credit-cards. Still, it makes it difficult for me to convince my Mac and iOS friends that they need to get 1Password when much of the functionality is going to be built into Apple's ecosystem.
1password is certainly being Sherlocked. There might be a lot of detriment to iCloud Keychain for 1password users, but the convenience of using your password data in mobile safari is going to be too much to resist for most ordinary (non-security-minded people).
There are several problems with the iCloud keychain in the demonstrated form:
Just my two cents.
I suspect there IS a UI in the iCloud Keychain feature to view (and perhaps organize) logins. They have to provide a way to enter your passwords in forms that don't support the automatic population of a form. If they don't then of course the whole thing is a non-starter. I am an agilebits supporter and have had every version of the Mac software and iOS software from the beginning but I won't torture myself for no-reason, I have got to admit the idea of iOS safari being able to sync and auto-populate my passwords is very appealing. The proof is in the pudding though and I trust agilebits to do it better but I am paying attention closely to both sides at this point. Too bad Apple refuses to allow a 3rd party to integrate with their mobile browser that would make my future choices easy...
I am rooting for y'all, not just as an ex-GTA cheerleader, but because Apple should have at least offered to buy you out ala SoundJam, since your awesome product is the one they're not only Sherlocking but apparently copying outright. (Cock-blocking mobile webkit implementations of third party password apps is now yet another matter...)
I am also keeping a close eye on both sides. I really don't want to lose the UI goodness we are finally seeing from Agile or the secure notes, credit cards, and identity features either. However, my employer will not allow us to install Dropbox on our machines, so I'm counting on the new iCloud syncing being promised in 1P4. Otherwise, I'll have to make the switch.
There are a lot of likes in this thread. 1Password is just too good at what it does for me to leave. I feel that Apple is making passwords better for the masses but in no way is it a 1Password replacement.
I liked the self funding comment above. That was hilarious!
We really don't like talking about competing products. We might (or might not) have to make exception in this case, however. We also need to keep in mind that anything we learn from looking at the Developer Preview is subject to the Non-Disclosure Agreement that everyone with (legitimate) access to the Developer Preview agreed to.
I suppose that we can talk about what differences there are between 1Password and the kinds of password managers that are built into browsers. There are enormous differences in many many areas. But again, we never (well, hardly ever) talk about our competitors.
So you will just have to wait and see whether we do say anything substantive.
Chief Defender Against the Dark Arts @ AgileBits
I think this is a real opportunity for 1P (and all other password managers). Let's remember we are already a rather geeky crowd, but there are plenty of other people who have never used a password manager of any kind. When this feature comes preinstalled with Mavericks, it will bring awareness to a whole new segment of users who aren't aware of pw managers or those who never thought they needed to use one. Agile will have its work cut out for them to convince a fraction of iCloud Keychain users to upgrade to 1P. And as an existing 1P user, I'm looking forward to the increased competition that will lead to better 1P experience.
We all love the underdog, but in this case I think it's safe to assume that Apple is stiff competition. I like 1Password. I have used it for years, and I've referred it to many friends over those years. I'm not kidding when I say I've brought over 40 people into the 1Password family.
But I have to say that having to pay for updates is a bit annoying. I understand that there is a company of very talented people working hard to make the software better, but I can't think of any other app in my life that hits me up for paid upgrades. This is obviously Agile's decision, and I'm sure the model has worked well enough for them. But that said, I haven't purchased 1Password 4 yet of iOS (too many issues being reported on App Store), and I'm not going to be buying 1Password 4 for OS X, unless Apple really screws up the iCloud Keychain.
Tighter integration, beyond what a third-party can do, with iOS and OS X is obviously a big benefit. The easier it is, and as long as it's secure, the better. As a consumer, I hope Agile puts out something compelling enough to make me stick around. I'm always willing to pay for the better solution. I know cross-OS ability may keep some around, but since I'm fortunate enough to not have to touch any Windows machines, that's not an issue for me personally.
That's just my 2 cents on this. For the most part, I like 1Password. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Here are some key pros and cons of Apple's Keychain vs 1Password, based on what we know from Apple's announcement:
Unless the new Keychain coming this Fall circumvents some websites' obnoxious practice of blocking users from saving their login credentials, I will continue to rely on 1Password. Unfortunately, 1Password is still a crappy solution on iOS devices since it can't integrate with the native browser.
By the way, it's annoying how this forum software ignores line breaks in posts.
I would be interested to hear Agilebit's thoughts on Apple's iCloud Keychain announcement at WWDC. How does Apple's new offering compare and contrast to 1Password? The main difference I can see is that it doesn't work on Android or on non-Safari browsers. That's a pretty significant drawback.
The feature that the iCloud keychain sync will allow iOS devices to auto-fill passwords with mobile Safari is huge. If 1Password for Mac could sync selected entires with the iCloud keychain, users could still enjoy all the benefits 1Password offers over and above iCloud keychain sync, while gaining access to this very valuable feature.
Based on the description on apple.com, it sounds like Mavericks will have what 99% of mac users require in a password manager. Of course we won't really know until Mavericks ships. Looks like OS X Mavericks will launch before 1Password 4 for MAC which is a bummer - a real missed opportunity for 1Password folks. We waited as long as we could!
I think the apples iCloud keychain sounds great... but I want to see the implementation before I call it a success. In my humble opinion Apple has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ever since the original Lion. They never offer any sort of front end management to any of their iCloud products, and I'm STILL waiting for them to bring the scroll arrows back.
Long story short, if it can be done wrong or inconveniently, you can bet it will be Apple finding it. I suspect it will be much like the old 'iCloud Keychain' (called mobileme). Which in no way made me want to ditch my third party password manager. I think I will use it primarily to keep my software unlocked on all my machines and that's about it. I think it's way to soon to be calling the undertaker for 1Password.
While I will stick with 1Password, I am using safari more than 1password on iOS by far, the integration between safari on iOS and OSX is great, and I only use 1Password when I want to log into a websites, but for normal browsing, I just stay with Safari.
Now there is a reason for me to stay more with safari specially after the latest announcement of the iCloud keychain, but 1Password is not only for logins, but I use it for other important documents, and software licences. we could be living in heaven if 1Password can sync with safari for custom selected password (i.e. 1password is the main powerful application and 1password/safari iCloud keychain sync is small module) so we can enjoy working with safari while 1Password sync all data between different platforms, and no need for 1Password browser module.
From what i've read ios 7 is only going to be available on the newest devices. I have an ipad 2 and an iPod touch 4th generation so i'm not sure there'll ever be a full implementation of ios7 of me which means I can happily use 1Password at least until my devices die or break. I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't upgrade every time new hardware comes out so if nothing else we'll still be a market for 1Password.
iOS 7 will be available back to the iPhone 4.
The WWDC keynote talked and demonstrated some new iCloud Keychains features that definitely overlap with what 1Password does for me. Don't get me wrong... I'm a super SUPER enthusiastic 1Password user on iPhone, iPad, and Mac. But it raised my eyebrows. Tim Cook talked about auto syncing between devices for logins, accounts, credit cards, etc. Some very tight Safari integration. Possibly a developer API? So maybe this is a good thing for 1Password, but it also appears to be a little bit competitive.
What do you think?
@bitmason, I merged your post with this existing thread.
@khad, thanks. I understand your company's reluctance to discuss plans. That policy does, however, result in me being reluctant to pay for the 1P V4 upgrade on my iPhone/iPad because of the uncertainty of 1P vs Mavericks now.
It feels like the Apple gorilla may have entered your room and, as a software developer, I feel for you guys. Anyways, I will hang on until fall. Good luck!
I would jump in. Mavericks sung going to store my software keys, disk image passwords, and other out of ordinary data. I want 1Place (pun intended) to store my data. I love the iOS versions and can't wait for v4 on the Mac.
1Browswer also lends itself to eliminating apps on my iOS devices. For example, I use PayPal through 1Browser and not through the Paypal App. Who would have guessed that? Same for Amazon, etc.
So how long have Apple been doing gorillas and where could I get one? Not showing on the Apple Store yet. Although my friend isn't allow to say...the iCloud Keychain thing is rubbish.
Nature of the beast: Apple bumps into some third party apps to extend iOS 7
But Apple is pretty good about serving up new APIs corresponding to new OS features. So I'm hoping 1Password is onto this in some novel/useful/compelling way and they'll tell us soon.
I honestly don't understand the hoopla over the iCloud keychain. Apple had OS X keychain sync until it pulled the plug on MobileMe last June. It worked with Safari and Camino, and I believe that there were third-party extensions that allowed it to work with other browsers as well. 1Password thrived in that environment. Not only that—1Password originally stored its data in the OS X keychain, so it actually made use of Apple's keychain sync.
In OS X, keychain data—like contact and calendar data—can be accessed by just about any app. This has continued to be the case even in the sandboxing era. Likewise, other iOS apps can access my iOS contacts if I grant them permission to do so. Not sure whether the same is true of calendar data, but I don't imagine that there would be any technical barriers to doing so.
The same thing ought to be true of the new iCloud keychain. It's called the iCloud keychain after all, not the Safari keychain, so it's certainly possible that it will be a system resource just like the OS X keychain. And if that is the case, then it ought to represent a huge opportunity for Agile.
On the desktop, the paradigm is that password managers like 1Password have to integrate with as many web browsers as the developer opts to support (you can find pleas in the 1Password forums for Opera support, TenFourFox support, and the like). On iOS 7, that could flip, with third-party browsers hooking into the iCloud keychain. And if Apple also allows password management apps to hook into the iCloud keychain, then 1Password could interoperate not only with Safari, but with all other iOS web browsers that use the iCloud keychain, and perhaps even, albeit indirectly, with other password managers that opt to integrate with the iCloud keychain.
In that world, the best UI wins. And we already know who has the best UI on the Mac!
I've used 1password for years but the biggest problem is password entry on my iPad and iPhone due to Apple's restrictive API policy. I do most of my browsing now on mobile devices. I can use Evernote for storing non-password info. If the iCloud thing works well with my iPad, I will consider it.