Adding a second Master Password?

Adamding

Hi there, I suppose this might be a feature request, would it be possible to add a facility for a second master password running alongside the current one? that would mean a new master password can be chosen which is strong but harder to remember, and if i stuff up i can still get in with the original master password? cheers!, Adam

sjk

Hi, @Adamding.

By "stuff up" do you mean you've been locked out of 1Password by forgetting the new, "harder to remember" Master Password? And after that you'd be able to use the original Master Password to unlock?

Maybe you can describe a bit more how you'd like this to work? It seems to me it would be possible to bypass the new MP in favor of simply using the original one, offering no benefit to having a second MP and actually decreasing security by having two MP's that can unlock your data instead of just one. There's a reason it's 1Password. :)

myramoki

Hey @Adamding,

Woe be to you if you loose your Master Password! I had this happen myself when I wasn't using 1Password very much. I changed my MP, thinking I'd remember it. I didn't. I had to revert to an old backup and move forward from then.

I now have my MP written on paper safely tucked away in a Sentry FireSafe. And occasionally I export a copy of the passwords, print it, and put that in the safe. Hardcopy is vital to ensuring that information lives beyond me and my computer. I think that's actually the best option.

I do occasionally wish that 1Password had a service where I could upload a copy of my vault or the MP itself, re-encrypted with information from personal details (name, ssn, dob, favorite pet, etc) that could be retrieved for disaster recovery (tornado wipes out the house, safe is gone, dropbox dies, etc). But this can be achieved also by keeping a copy of my MP in a safe at my parents, or safety deposit box, or with a lawyer. Little creative thinking and should be able figure out a solution that works for yourself to ensure you don't lose your MP.

Adamding

Hi there, yes, sorry, by stuff-up I meant if i forget the new excellent password i can still get in with my older one. Until i get to the point where I have successfully memorised the new one, and the old one can be disabled. Having two passwords could perhaps make things less secure but as the 2nd password is more complex that doesn't appear to be an issue.

Jasper

If you were to try and guess a number between 1 and 10, there would be a 1/10 chance of guessing the number on the first try. But if you were guessing one of two possible numbers between 1 and 10, there would be a 2/10 (or 1/5) chance of guessing it on the first try. That means you're twice as likely to guess correctly.

The same goes for a brute force attack on your 1Password database. Just as an example, say there are five million password combinations. With one master password, you've got a 1/5000000 chance to guess it right on the first attempt. But with two master passwords, you've got a 2/5000000 (or 1/2500000) chance to get it right. So that means an attacker is twice as likely to guess your password if there are two of them.

Having two passwords will make things less secure. I would say write down your new master password and place it somewhere secure until you are sure that you can remember it.

hawkmoth

Perhaps I misunderstand what the proposal is, but wouldn't your data be just as much at risk as the weaker of the two passwords? If so, it isn't obvious to me how changing the password helps at all, at least until you've deleted the original one.

I don't know if this wouldn't be an option, but when I have encrypted my entire hard drive, Apple provides a complex key to use to open things up if I forget my password. I've always stored that key in my 1Password database. Furthermore, if I want to, they allow me to store the key on the Apple servers. Could something similar work for the master password?

I haven't thought very much about this, but I haven't quite understood how keeping the second key to my encrypted drive is any better than writing down the password in the first place. I've also wondered whether I increase the vulnerability of my system by letting Apple keep track of it for me. It seems as if I might be opening a door for a bad actor to gain access to my key by breaking into the remote server.

I think cloud storage of a key would be preferred over having two different master passwords. At least then there would be physical separation of the two.

Pardon my musings. :)

Adamding

paper it is for a while then :)

hawkmoth

The 1Password recommendations on creating strong passwords suggest that you do write it down and store it in a safe place.

Ben

Perhaps I misunderstand what the proposal is, but wouldn't your data be just as much at risk as the weaker of the two passwords?

Even weaker than that, actually. Not only can someone unlock the keychain with the weaker password, they can also unlock it with the new password, which increases the probability of the password being cracked.

If anyone hasn't already read this article, it is worth reading:

Toward Better Master Passwords

Jeff, our Chief Defender Against the Dark Arts, has written a number of excellent articles on security on our blog:

Security articles by Jeff

Ben