Folder-based syncing on Windows

I can't seem to figure out how to setup folder-based syncing using the windows version of 1Password. According to the manual this should work, but the manual does not explain how to configure this on a windows environment.

How do I configure this?

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Comments

  • I fully agree with you. Much better would be, if there is a possibility to use webdav

  • J.MJ.M
    edited November 2014

    @it4me‌

    It should be possible, as long as you have a webdav client on your computer(s) that syncs with your webdav server. You just put your keychain in the synced folder and open it with 1Password. I don't know about conflict resolution though, it would be good to make some tests before. Of course, this method is not officially supported by AgileBits.

    I'm using Bittorrent Sync on the LAN via Wi-Fi (Windows <==> Android), it seems to work right, i didn't notice any deleted entries or conflicts inside my keychain. I keep backups in case of need...You never know.

  • edited November 2014

    How do I configure this?

    On Windows, there isn't much to configure. You copy your 1Password.agilekeychain into your Dropbox and voila, you're done.

    https://guides.agilebits.com/1password-windows/4/en/topic/setting-up-dropbox-sync

    P.S. folder-sync-setup is Mac-only -- we do not have this on Windows.

  • I am not talking about dropbox syncing. I am talking about a folder sync within the locan network.
    The user guide at https://guides.agilebits.com/1password-windows/4/en/topic/sync-options makes a clear distinction between Dropbox syncing and folder-based syncing.

    On the Mac verison this is obvious, but on Windows I can't seem to find any settings for this. How do I do this?

  • edited November 2014

    I am not talking about dropbox syncing. I am talking about a folder sync within the local network.

    Yeah, I can see how this might be confusing. The Windows docs probably shouldn't refer to "folder sync" because this is Mac-only.

    On the Mac verison this is obvious, but on Windows I can't seem to find any settings for this.

    This is because you do not need folder sync on Windows. On Windows, things will automatically sync to the folder where your 1Password.agilekeychain is.

    How do I do this?

    Without Dropbox, how are you planning on sharing your vault? A network share? Simply copy your 1Password.agilekeychain into the drive or directory you're planning on sharing with your Mac. Done.

  • Thanks for your response.

    Without Dropbox, how are you planning on sharing your vault? A network share?

    Indeed a network share is what I had in mind. Based on the folder-based sync, I was hoping for a setup
    Mac <> Network folder <> Windows

    Simply copy your 1Password.agilekeychain into the drive or directory you're planning on sharing with your Mac. Done.

    Does this mean that 1Password for Windows will be working directly on the network share, or will it somehow make a local copy?
    I am looking at syncing to my work laptop and would need to take this offline.

    Ideally, I would be able to add new passwords at home on the Mac, as well as at work on Windows, and then sync when I get home.

  • edited November 2014

    Indeed a network share is what I had in mind. Based on the folder-based sync, I was hoping for a setup Mac <> Network folder <> Windows

    Although not recommended, you can indeed accomplish this. It requires Folder Sync on Mac. On Windows, you simply copy your 1Password.agilekeychain to your network share (or open an existing 1Password.agilekeychain from your network share).

    Does this mean that 1Password for Windows will be working directly on the network share

    Correct.

    or will it somehow make a local copy?

    No, 1Password for Windows doesn't have a local copy. This is where it differs from 1Password for Mac.

  • What you need to understand here is that the Mac runs locally from database. It only uses the keychain for syncing.

    Windows doesn't use a database. It reads and writes directly to the keychain. Windows doesn't really do sync. It just lets Dropbox handle the sync. The exception is wi-fi sync.

    If Windows supported folder sync then you would have a local copy of the keychain and it would be sync'd to and from a keychain on the network.

    However, since it does, you'd need to point Windows directly to the keychain on the network.

    Basically, I don't think there's any way to make it do what you want.

    @svondutch is folder sync on the todo list? If not, why not?

  • I don't think there's any way to make it do what you want

    Sure there is. The absence of an internal database actually makes this concept a lot simpler on Windows. There aren't any sync settings because it "just works".

    is folder sync on the todo list?

    No.

    If not, why not?

    Because we do not need it on Windows. Without an internal database, there is nothing to sync.

  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited November 2014

    The Windows docs probably shouldn't refer to "folder sync" because this is Mac-only.

    In the 1Password 4 for Windows user's guide, the Syncing your 1Password data article explains all sync options on all platforms and makes it clear that folder sync is for 1Password for Mac.

    The Windows←→Windows part is intended to imply that 1Password for Windows stores its data in the filesystem, whereas (as @svondutch points out) 1Password for Mac stores its data internally and has to be configured to keep a "sync copy" in the filesystem.)

    I'll try to find a way to make that more clear.

  • Because we do not need it on Windows. Without an internal database, there is nothing to sync.

    If the recommendation is to not directly access vaults stored on network shares then that is clearly incorrect. The scenario would be vault stored locally with folder sync setup to a network share.

  • The scenario would be vault stored locally with folder sync setup to a network share.

    @RichardPayne On Windows, there is no local storage. Because 1Password for Windows reads (and writes) 1Password.agilekeychain, folder sync is automatic. There is nothing to configure.

  • ok, but do you or do your not recommend point 1Password directly at a vault stored on a network share?

  • edited December 2014

    but do you or do your not recommend point 1Password directly at a vault stored on a network share?

    We do not recommend it because 1Password is very File I/O intensive, and networked drives are known to be a lot slower than local drives. However, in practice it will probably work just fine. Every item is stored in an unique, individual file. The chances of you and your co-workers editing the same item at the same time are slim.

  • ok, so it's not recommended.

    That would imply that there is some sort of case for folder sync. The idea being that all of the regular 1Password I/O is done on the local vault and then when it attempts to sync it copies changes to and from the vault on the network.

  • That would imply that there is some sort of case for folder sync

    On Windows, we trust on Dropbox (or whatever other cloud-based sync service you're using) to take care of this.

    The idea being that (...) it copies changes to and from the vault on the network.

    This concept definitely has performance advantages, but it also comes with it's own complexities. For example: you now have 2 databases that you need to keep in sync, introducing more points of failure into the product. This is why I keep resisting the concept of the internal database.

  • This concept definitely has performance advantages, but it also comes with it's own complexities. For example: you now have 2 databases that you need to keep in sync, introducing more points of failure into the product. This is why I keep resisting the concept of the internal database.

    It may be more complex but it allows far better management of conflict issues (as Dropbox does for cloud sync) when trying to avoid using public clouds.

    See this thread for an example:
    https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/32466/sync-share-with-database-in-a-network-filesystem#latest

    There's also the cross-company consistency thing. Unless there's a platform specific reason for doing it differently (QuickLook for example) then I'm very much in favour of the various versions of 1Password operating in a consistent way.

  • it allows far better management of conflict issues

    I doubt 1Password has better conflict management on Mac because we see more sync conflicts on Mac than we do on Windows.

    There's also the cross-company consistency thing.

    Are you saying the Mac version should get rid of the internal database? Then I'm with you on this. :)

  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni

    I'm not sure about 1Password for Android, but 1Password for iOS also has an internal database.

  • I'm not sure about 1Password for Android, but 1Password for iOS also has an internal database.

    I'm pretty sure Android has an internal database too.

    I doubt 1Password has better conflict management on Mac because we see more sync conflicts on Mac than we do on Windows.

    I didn't mean to compare Mac to Windows. I was comparing two Windows user simultaneously accessing a single vault to two users running folder sync processes against a shared vault. I'm not aware of Windows doing anything clever in such situations, which I assuming 1Password can do.

    Are you saying the Mac version should get rid of the internal database? Then I'm with you on this.

    LOL

  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited December 2014

    I've double-checked, and 1Password for Android does use an internal database, like 1Password for Mac and 1Password for iOS. All three read and write your 1Password data on the filesystem only if you choose Dropbox or folder-based sync.

    1Password for Windows is the only holdout, in this respect.

  • edited December 2014

    I was comparing two Windows user simultaneously accessing a single vault to two users running folder sync processes against a shared vault. I'm not aware of Windows doing anything clever in such situations, which I assuming 1Password can do.

    @RichardPayne‌ Windows isn't doing anything clever, but because every item is stored in an individual file, the chances of you and your co-workers writing the same item at the same time are slim.

    We do see sync problems on Mac. Every now and then, we need to ask our customers to disable (and then re-enable) it's sync settings. On Windows, there isn't anything to configure because it doesn't sync from an internal database to your Dropbox. Fewer things to sync == fewer sync problems.

    It makes perfect sense for the mobile apps (Android and iOS) to have an internal database because those systems are heavily sandboxed. There is no such thing as a file system where the Dropbox client will do the syncing for you.

  • Windows isn't doing anything clever, but because every item is stored in an individual file, the chances of you and your co-workers writing the same item at the same time are slim.

    They are slim, but it's not scalable. The chances of a problem increase dramatically when you've got 100 users access the same vault. The fact that you do get issues with the Mac design indicate that even two users on a shared vault is going to cause problems.

    It makes perfect sense for the mobile apps (Android and iOS) to have an internal database because those systems are heavily sandboxed.

    Do you know why the Mac client went with the current model since its file system is not sandboxed?

  • They are slim, but it's not scalable

    This is why we do not recommend storing your vault on a network share. Dropbox is your friend.

    Do you know why the Mac client went with the current model since its file system is not sandboxed?

    The Mac and iOS apps are both written in the same language. We wanted to re-use as much source code as possible.

  • This is why we do not recommend storing your vault on a network share. Dropbox is your friend.

    Not if, as several people have expressed on here, you wish to keep your data off of public networks.

  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited December 2014

    If a bad guy manages to break into your Dropbox account and replace the 1Password.html file with a version that sends him your master password, and you actually use 1PasswordAnywhere to access your data on your private dropbox.com web site, then your 1Password data would be vulnerable there.

    Otherwise, your 1Password data on Dropbox should be as safe as your master password is strong.

    That's my (recently updated) understanding, anyway.

  • I understand that but there's two factors you're not considering:

    1) Corporate policy. Getting permission to use outside services can be painful and very time consuming.

    2) User access control. Using a network share places access to the vault under domain control. When employees leave you are not required to change a login that everyone must use, you simply remove the employee's access rights. Dropbox for Business might resolve these issues, but then you're adding additional cost.

  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni

    Refusing someone access to the vault doesn't mean that person hasn't already sent himself a copy of every Login and other item in the vault or simply copied the entire .agilekeychain folder to a removable drive.

    When an employee leaves, you need to change all the passwords for sites to which you don't want him to have continued access.

  • edited December 2014

    Dropbox is your friend.

    >

    Not if, as several people have expressed on here, you wish to keep your data off of public networks.

    This is why we also have Wi-Fi Sync.

  • Refusing someone access to the vault doesn't mean that person hasn't already sent himself a copy of every Login and other item in the vault or simply copied the entire .agilekeychain folder to a removable drive.

    There are ways to control that.

    This is why we also have Wi-Fi Sync.

    Which is not automatic, which I think folder sync on the Mac is.

This discussion has been closed.