Mac Doesn't Receive iOS Device Changes via iCloud Sync'ing (and there's other sync inconsistencies)
Now that iOS iCloud sync'ing is back up and running I ran a few tests to make sure it's working. I'm finding some odd behavior that was maybe there before (but I never looked too closely til now). Namely that 1) changes made on a iOS device do not "reliably" sync to my Mac (more on what I mean by "reliably" below), and 2) Changes on the Mac do not "reliably" perform automatic sync's to iOS devices (again more on "reliably" in a moment).
The specifics:
1. If I make a change in the iOS device it automatically initiates a sync (as seen from the sync timer in Settings > Sync). However, the Mac does not receive this change.
2. Clicking on "Sync Now" in the iOS device doesn't seem to sync the iOS changes to the Mac either.
3. iOS changes are only sync'd to the Mac if I also make changes in the Mac. This happens automatically since the iOS seems to initiate a sync whenever it sees a change.
4. There is no "Sync Now" option in the Mac's 1Password to force a sync of iOS device content to the Mac.
5. Changes in the Mac do not seem to automatically sync to iOS devices until I either leave the iOS 1Password app and then return to it or force a sync via the iOS's "Sync Now". Shouldn't there be regular automatic sync's to iOS devices regardless of the situation.
So how and when iCloud sync'ing occurs seems inconsistent (and difficult to remember or comprehend). More importantly, changes in iOS do not sync to the Mac until I also make changes in the Mac - this seems like a bug. Am I confused or missing something about how iCloud sync'ing between a Mac & iOS devices should be working?
Your expert input on this matter would be much-appreciated!
1Password Version: 5.3
Extension Version: 4.3.1
OS Version: OS X 10.10.3
Sync Type: iCloud
Comments
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Any insights into this post?
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Bump again - isn't anyone @ AgileBits willing to respond to my issues (they're not chopped liver...my attempt at humor)?
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@agile_ra: I'm sorry that you felt like we were leaving you hanging, and I do apologize for the delay in getting back to you. It's been pretty busy, and we try to reply to thread based on time (oldest to newest). Also, I hope you don't mind, but I've deleted the duplicate post so I can reply here.
Unfortunately, as the recent iCloud issues have clearly demonstrated, developers just don't have control over iCloud. Most of the time this is just fine; it's easy for you and it's simple(r) for us. However, this also means that we don't really have any insight into why it might not be working as expected when things go wrong. Essentially apps write data to the iCloud database locally and it's queued by (i)OS (X). And at that point it's up to Apple's hardware and software to do the rest.
I know this may sound rather unhelpful (although it can be interesting from a curiosity standpoint), but there are some things that we, as users, can do to both clear out corrupt data or jumpstart things. Check out our iCloud troubleshooting guide for some helpful tips which can resolve all but the most intractable iCloud issues (such as the deadlock we've all experienced these past few days).
In your case, what you'll want to do is disable iCloud sync on your devices (this won't affect your 1Password data locally). Then follow the troubleshooting steps. It sounds like in particular you may need to reset the 1Password data in iCloud completely, and possibly disable and re-enable iCloud on each device as well to start you off with a clean slate.
I hope this helps. Please let me know how it turns out! :)
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Thanks for responding - I have only been using 1Password for a little over a week now so could I ask for a bit of clarification concerning what you are saying?:
- What "troubleshooting steps" are you referring to (a link would be helpful). Note that at the beginning of this iCloud outage I came across various troubleshooting tips some of which led me down various "rabbit holes" until I learned that this "outage" wasn't specific to me.
- What do you mean by "reset 1Password data in iCloud completely" - again a link to some instructions would help. I want to do this in a way that allows me to re-sync the data back to iCloud (and not somehow erase it from all of my devices...that would be real bad given that I haven't learned how to back up my 1Password data yet...oops).
- Isn't your 1st recommendation "what you'll want to do is disable iCloud sync on your devices" the same as your last one "disable and re-enable iCloud on each device" (and aren't these just part of any of the various "troubleshooting steps" anyway)?
Sorry to be a nitpick, but I've spent many hours this past week populating 1Password with many years worth of website logon data, figuring out each website's unique procedure for changing to a new password (a 1Password-generated "strong" password of course) & adding other secure information too...so I'm pretty frazzled!
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If I may I'll step in and try to answer (many of the AgileBits people are in a different time zone to me and are, or should be (!), sleeping now). The post to which you responded contains a link, like this, to the iCloud Troubleshooting Guide. Click on that link you'll go to a very helpful knowledge base article.
I know I've not answered all your questions specifically but if you do check that link you'll find that it does address most of them. I hope that helps.
Stephen
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@agile_ra: Sorry for the confusion!
1The link I included in my original reply is to the monolithic iCloud Troubleshooting article:Troubleshooting iCloud sync issues
2And this article also links to another (toward the bottom, as often earlier steps will prove fruitful):How to reset iCloud data and start fresh
We don't generally want to wipe everything from iCloud so I didn't link to that directly, but it can be necessary in some cases.
3My intention was to give you a general overview, and then you could follow the link for more detailed steps. I'm sorry for not being clearer. I hope this helps! :)0 -
Thanks for putting up with my need to know specifically what you are recommending! Yes I am quite familiar with this "Troubleshooting iCloud sync issues" article since I went through all of the steps during 1Password's recent iCloud sync problems (including wiping my 1Password data from iCloud)...which of course didn't help then....
Nevertheless, I went through each and every step again, including verifying that iCloud is sync'ing all of my other apps in both directions, and THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE (namely, 1Password data sync's from my Mac to my iPhone, but it won't sync the other way until I make a change to the Mac's 1Password data).
This time, however, I stopped short of resetting my 1Password iCloud data (since the article says its "heavy handed" and that I should probably ask for help from AgileBits at this point anyway).
So I'm right back where my original post started - should I follow the instructions in the article about contacting AgileBits for help or does this post suffice?
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@agile_ra: It's no trouble at all! I'm happy to answer any questions you have. I just know I can sometimes bore people with details, depending on their comfort level, so I try to find the balance. :blush:
I don't blame you at all for being cautious! The primary reason we caution against simply resetting the iCloud data is that this should not be the first step taken. And we never want anyone to reset anything if there's an easier way, which there often is.
However, in your case I definitely recommend going the Reset iCloud Data route, since all else has failed. Note that this action only needs to be taken once on a single device, since the command removes it from iCloud itself. Be sure to make a fresh backup of your 1Password data for each device beforehand however, just as a precaution:
Backup Preferences (Mac)
and
Creating and restoring 1Password backups in iTunes (iOS)
Then reset the data in iCloud:
Reset iCloud
And finally set up iCloud sync again:
iCloud Setup
Note: if you are asked to merge data in iCloud (when enabling the sync on devices after the first), tap More Info, and the Merge to get everything into the same vault in iCloud.
Let me know your results! :)
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I followed all of the above instructions - it was good to learn that my Mac's 1Password has been making automatic backups all along!
Unfortunately, THE SAME PROBLEM CONTINUES. Is it time for AgileBits to see if this odd, semi one-way iCloud sync'ing behavior is occurring on other OS X & iOS devices (or do you already know the answer to that question)?
BTW - I am nearly 100% sure that this problem did not exist before the recent “Failed to fetch some record zones” incident. I say this because I was in the middle of populating all of my login & other secure info on my Mac's 1Password, testing the sync'd results on my iPhone, and making tweaks in my iPhone if necessary (which were all being sync'd back to may Mac).
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Hi @agile_ra,
iCloud sync's performance can vary. I've seen it where modifications on one device are nearly instantaneously available on another but I've also seen it where it's sluggish and can take minutes - all with nothing changed on either device. It should be pretty much immediate but we are still reliant on Apple just like we're reliant on Dropbox's servers for Dropbox Sync.
I believe if you were to lock your vault, the keyboard shortcut
⌃⌥⌘Lyou would find the same result. Both are forcing an interaction with CloudKit. I believe we're meant to be notified of changes rather than polling, always a much more inefficient approach but why it isn't happening in a timely fashion I can't say. You will probably find that it becomes more responsive with no intervention by yourself. It may also be location specific as the first time I looked at this I wasn't experiencing any delay while somebody else was.We can sometimes have indirect issues with Dropbox too. I've seen it where new files are pulled down by the Dropbox client but we're simply not notified by the FSEvent notification of this. The Finder window doesn't show the new files either and if it wasn't for the Dropbox and Terminal application being in agreement you'd have to wonder. Let's say there are improvements that Apple could make to this. Again, why it happens I don't know.
In both cases though we're at their mercy. We can only react to what we're told and if we're not informed of new data there's a delay.
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Thanks for the insight. Here's what I found:
- iOS changes do sync to my Mac after the Mac's 1Password locks (either manually via a shortcut or Preferences; or automatically after the Mac sleeps, is inactive for x min...per the Security settings). Good!
- Otherwise sync'ing to my Mac is not merely "sluggish" or delayed - IT NEVER HAPPENS! As a test I made a 1Password change on my iPhone, worked on my Mac for a couple hours (during which 1Password never locked) and the sync never occurred.
So, while I do understand that iCloud sync performance is not under AgileBits' control:
- Is it possible that there's something unique going on with my iPhone & Mac since the sync'ing to the Mac "never" occurs unless its 1Password is locked/unlocked? If so, do you have any other suggestions about how to fix this issue (which I'd like to think is be fixable if it isn't a problem with any other iOS & OS X devices)?
- If it is not fixable (and esp. if it isn't unique to me) WHY NOT ADD a SYNC NOW button/shortcut to 1Password's OS X version - if I (we?) have to live with this issue (more like a "problem") I'd like a way to force a sync that doesn't require me to lock/unlock 1Password?
BTW - I still have to wonder why my Apple apps (Contacts, Calendar, Notes) can sync both ways instantaneously while this is not the case with 1Password? Shouldn't AgileBits be concerned about not being afforded the same iCloud sync performance that Apple provides for their own apps?
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Hi @agile_ra,
I've been conferring with a couple of colleagues and I learned about a bug that we're investigating. When we activate iCloud Sync we register for something called Apple Push notifications. It seems some people are experiencing an issue where the server rejects the request, saying it's a duplicate. We don't yet know why but we are looking into it.
Could you do the following for us please.
- Disable iCloud Sync in 1Password's preferences (Sync tab)
- Quit both 1Password and 1Password mini. My own preferred route is via the keyboard shortcut
⌃⌘Q. - Launch 1Password and re-enable iCloud Sync. These are steps you've done before, it's partly about ensuring the results of these steps are fresh in the logs for the next step.
- Follow the steps below to create a Diagnostic Report.
I would like you to create the following Diagnostic Report please. This guide will assist.
Please do not post your Diagnostics Report in the forums
The email address you will want to use is support+forum@agilebits.com
When sending the diagnostic report to the address above it would help immensely if you could include a link to this thread and your forum handle and could you also include the text
@KyleSwankso the person best suited to investigate this is notified (I hope)Once you've sent the report a post here with the ticket ID will help us to keep an eye out for it and ensure the right person is made aware.
I have to confess, I don't know for certain how certain Apple applications work with iCloud. The ones you mentioned, Contacts, Calendar, Notes all have other protocols available i.e. CalDAV and CardDAV so they may not communicate using the same approach at all, even from within iCloud. The issue of 1Password not being able to register for notifications would be one plausible reason why they are working though and we are not. Hopefully there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
ref: ZUH-79467-549
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Report has been generated and emailed to the address above with my forum name and link to this thread in the message body. However:
- I wasn't quite sure where to stick the "@KyleSwank", so I added it to the beginning of the message's subject line.
- Am I supposed to post a ticket ID here or will AgileBits? If it's me then where do I find this ticket ID.
Otherwise, thanks for believing that I wasn't "seeing ghosts" (my words) and I look forward instead to seeing the end of the tunnel!
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Ticket ID is [#ZUH-79467-549]
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@agile_ra: Thanks so much! I see we've received your message, so we can continue the conversation via email. I'll close this thread for now, and we'll take a look at the diagnostics to see if that sheds some light on things. We'll get back to you shortly! :)
P.S:
I have to confess, I don't know for certain how certain Apple applications work with iCloud. The ones you mentioned, Contacts, Calendar, Notes all have other protocols available i.e. CalDAV and CardDAV so they may not communicate using the same approach at all, even from within iCloud.
I think it's safe to say that Apple has many of their own tricks in private APIs that aren't available to 3rd party developers. Cheers! ;)
ref: ZUH-79467-549
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