1Password has Voice Over Problems
1Password
Version 5.3 (530029)
Mac App Store
Since the Mac App Store version has been so difficult to use with the color scheme and small fonts, I've tried using Voice Over built into OS X for Secure Notes with mixed results.
- Tapping in the notes edit field starts reading from the top to the bottom of the note. This isn't so bad for short notes but for notes that are several pages long this can cause problems when you want to scroll through the list and highlight another piece of text. Voice over gets confused and starts reading the new highlighted section and the resumes reading from the full text of the note.
- Edit the note and things get stranger. Double click on something to get it read back to you and now when you click anywhere else to remove the selection, any other word you single click on will read the new word followed by what was previously highlighted text even though it is no longer highlighted.
- For non-edit mode, added field names will be spoken but the content of those fields won't be spoken unless you edit the secure note. In non-edit mode, the phrase 1Password gets repeated over and over.
- In Edit mode, the delete buttons don't appear to line up with the lines you're about to delete. It would be helpful if voice over identified what you're about to delete. For example, add a custom field called location. When you hover over the big red delete button, can you make the voice over text "delete location button" or "delete button for location" instead of just "delete button"?
- There are a number of other places in preferences that only say "image" instead of identifying what image you're hovering over. For an example of this, 1Password, Preferences, Sync, in the list of vaults there are images for 1Password (the blue circle with the key hole), WiFi, and iCloud (when you select the option Also sync Primary value with iCloud.
- The Search box in the upper right corner does not identify what that field is. Clicking on the X to cancel a search value causes 1Password to crash; you'll find an automated crash report in your inbox. There is an option menu for search if you know it is there. If you're new and relying only on Voice Over to use your app, this option menu that lets you customize how the search is done is never identified by Voice Over and I couldn't find an equivalent set of options in the menus.
Really hoping for an update soon that lets us pick a custom color scheme that stays far, far away from light gray text on a white background and lets us set a similar Accessibility option like Safari that sets a minimum font size.
While we're wishing, I hope you're getting close to adding Markdown support to secure notes as well.
1Password Version: 5.3
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: OS X 10.10.4
Sync Type: WiFi
Comments
-
HI @Zamboni,
- I can't reproduce this one at the moment. I select a Secure Note and tapping on the note's contents initiates speech. If I then go on to select a block of text within the note it will read that block and finish by saying "selected". It does not continue to read the rest of the note. Are there any other steps I should be performing to reproduce?
- This seems to be normal behaviour for VoiceOver. The first time you select a block of text it reads it back and says "selected" to highlight that the text is selected, when I click on another word it does read back the same block and then it says "unselected". VoiceOver does the same in TextEdit too.
- I can't reproduce this at the moment. I created five fields and tested various types of fields. For each I tested (with the exception of a password field) it would first read the label followed by the field's contents with no pause in view mode. For a password it simply says concealed value until I revealed the password and then it would read it back to me too.
- That was a colossal fight to get it to say anything about the delete buttons at all. You're correct, merely saying delete button is almost useless. If it were to say "delete button for" and then the field title that would seem to be a vast improvement. For the moment it would seem you're limited to tabbing to the field label and then using shift tab to return to the delete button for that field.
- You are correct, we don't seem to give VoiceOver whatever cues it requires to say what forms of sync are happening with each vault. I think this is the only place in the preferences with images so if you know of others please do correct me.
- Can you clarify this last one for me please. I'm not aware of any search boxes in the upper right hand corner so I'm not positive I'm looking in the correct place just now. I will certainly investigate once I know a little more.
Now off to write up those two confirmed bug reports (potentially more once we've heard back from you :smile:).
ref: OPM-3177 & ref: OPM-3178
0 -
Hello @littlebobbytables,
1) This seems to depend on the length of the secured note. For notes that about 30 lines long, I don't get the bizarre resume reading from the whole content of the note. For notes that have 300+ lines I get this odd affliction from Voice Over not wanting to stop reading the entire note until it is done. I can short circuit this by clicking outside the field and then go back and click or click and drag to highlight a group of text.
2) A little more detail about this bad behavior.
- Edit a note.
- Double click on a word in the middle of the note. For example, I double click on the word season and I hear season selected.
- Click on another word and I hear season unselected. I don't hear the new word until I click on or double click on it again.
- Click on another word and I hear rational season.
- Highlight a group of words and I hear the group of words followed by season again.
- If I click outside the note field to change the focus and then click back inside the field, the word season is no longer repeated after everything else.
- One other clue that something isn't right is when the first word is unselected, the thick black line around that word does not disappear. If you scroll through the note, the black box stays in the same physical location while text scrolls under the box.
3) This appears to work only some of the time. Once you get the custom field read out to you, move the cursor up above the label and then move it back. It appears to only read the value of that field the first time. Once it stops reading the value, none of the other fields will do more than read back the label without the value.
5) There are images for each item. For example, when you click on a Secure Note, there is a notebook image in the upper left corner. This only says image when you hover over it. It would be better to say Secure Note Image. Software Licenses use the image of the software when available but it would be sufficient to say Software License Image in this case.
6) If you tap on all items, the top right of the app window shows a search box. You have to set the focus to search for it to enable the option menu. Typing text into search will also enable this drop down menu.
If you just hover the cursor over the menu when the search field has focus, nothing mentions that you can even change the search options. I didn't even know this menu existed until I accidentally clicked on it. While search options exists under Edit, Find, it would be helpful to duplicate some of the other items in that search box menu in the main Edit menu like selecting Search Title vs Search All Fields.
0 -
Hi @ZamboniMan,
- Unfortunately I'm still unable to reproduce this. My original Secure Note was nowhere near long enough so a bit of copying and pasting turned the 84 line document into a 400+ one. Despite that, the same pattern was repeatable for me. I select the Secure Note from the list and click on the note component (in read-only mode) to start VoiceOver reading it. Scrolling through and selecting a block of text has VoiceOver stop the previous reading and reading just the selection. After it's finished it stops for me. So I'm still unsure why I can't replicate.
- I'm not convinced this isn't VoiceOver rather than us. You mention about the black rectangle not disappearing. VoiceOver does that everywhere from what I've seen in my limited testing, including both TextEdit and Safari as I've flipped between applications during testing. It might be this behaviour can be tweaked as VoiceOver has a number of preferences that I don't truly understand.
- I am wondering at this point if you have VoiceOver set up differently from the defaults at all. For me to move VoiceOver focus I use a combination of
⌃⌥and arrow keys or⇧⌃⌥and up and down to enter and leave tables. My knowledge on VoiceOver is not great but these seem to be the defaults. I ask as you said "move the cursor up above the label and then move it back" but I haven't stumbled upon a sequence that replicates what you're finding. 1Password would seem to be quite passive here. If it works once then I would have thought (possibly naively) that we've done our part in ensuring the sections present the correct Accessibility information. - Sorry, the forum does the numbering automatically. We have this covered in OPM-3177 now.
- Okay, I think I understand but only if you are using the Top Item List Layout. Is this the case? If this assumption is wrong I'm not sure what icons you're able to focus on as I can't focus on the icon in either the Item List pane or the Item List pane when Item List Layout is in the default Left mode. The default Left Item List Layout only seems to allow the selection of a single row and not drilling into the contents.
- The search menu in the search field is quite well hidden and easy to miss. Like yourself I think I wasn't aware of it for ages too. I don't know how we've encoded it but I couldn't get VoiceOver to acknowledge that it was there at all to be interacted with. I don't know Objective-C but it's almost like it's an icon with some sort of event listener rather than a button. I'm wondering if the easiest option would be to promote it to a button if that is possible. The specifics will have to be up to the devs I think as to what the best way forward is. I'll write this one just now.
0 -
I've created OPM-3181 in regards to the magnifying glass not being a visible target for VoiceOver. Obviously we've not concluded every item yet, I'm just ticking that one off the list (in the sense that it is in our bug tracker).
ref: OPM-3181
0 -
Hello @littlebobbytables,
It is possible that some of the problems are coming from Apple and I will file feedback with Apple about these odd behaviors as well, not that they'll fix anything in my lifetime. ;)
The only change I made for Voice Over is the hot key to toggle it off and on. Mine is set to command-option-v because it is easier to remember.
When I was referring to moving the cursor, I was talking about the mouse cursor. Just moving the mouse so the pointer is over the label and then half a line above where the smudge that is impersonating a label appears and then back over the smudge.
View, Item List Layout, Top is what I have selected at the moment.
As for not being able to replicate some of these, it could be other Accessibility options that are causing hiccups. I have the following settings:
- Display, Reduce transparency
- Display, Cursor size, third tick from the left.
- Zoom, Use keyboard shortcuts to zoom.
- Zoom, Use scroll gesture with modifier keys to zoom. ^ Control
- Zoom, Zoom Style: Fullscreen
- Voice Over, Enable VoiceOver unchecked. I toggle this off and on when needed.
- Audio, Flash the screen when an alert sound occurs.
- Mouse Trackpad, Spring-loading delay, Short
- Show Accessibility status in the menu bar, although this is less than helpful since you can't toggle anything from the menu bar but it is a quick link to get back to the preference pane.
Never really tried flipping between applications. I generally only turn voice over on when I'm working within 1Password.
Nothing overly crippling about all this. Just figured if no one took the time to report odd behavior, the odd behavior would never get fixed. It's also a matter of future proofing things for myself before I have to rely on VoiceOver for everything.
Thank you for all the help in testing this.
0 -
Hi @ZamboniMan,
I do confess, VoiceOver can drive me somewhat doolally but these reports are important and each one has to be carefully reviewed as proper accessibility support is simply the right thing to do. Those that use VoiceOver have to, I doubt anybody would use it unless they did. Yourself for example, you're anticipating it being vital and ensuring should that day happen that you will be ready which still falls into that bracket in my opinion.
I like the idea of toggling it on and off so thank you for that tip. I've done a bit of digging and I believe you've also tweaked the following setting in
/Applications/Utilities/VoiceOver Utility, Navigation > Mouse pointer: and set it to Move VoiceOver Cursor. Until now moving the mouse didn't affect VoiceOver for me and I'm assuming mine was on the default. So I'm a bit closer to your setup and one that might help when testing 1Password so thank you!Actually the mouse cursor setting not only makes sense but it seems to allow me to interact with bits of 1Password that I swear I couldn't before. For example our default layout of left actually behaves better in my opinion if you use keys to navigate. I'm not sure there is much we'll be able to do here as it seems to be how VoiceOver is designed.
I've now reported the issue of the generic image term and all the additional places I've been able to confirm it which is both layout views and the icon in the Item Details pane.
So I think we've addressed 4-6 and with these changes to my VoiceOver setup I should revisit 1-3 and see if I experience any kind of different behaviour. I'm getting better at this so if you have more thoughts do say :smile:
ref: OPM-3182
0 -
Hello @littlebobbytables,
I had missed some of these settings. One thing that seems to have fixed the repetition problem is VoiceOverUtility, Navigation, Skip redundant labels. Here is a snapshot of my Navigation settings.
A little odd in some ways but if you click inside the secure note pane, you get different behavior when hovering the mouse versus clicking on a label. When 1Password first launches, the focus is on the whole window and this still repeats 1Password as the mouse moves over different elements. However, click inside the Secure Note pane and:
- Hovering the mouse cursor over the location label just speaks location.
- Click on location and sometimes it will say the value of location "location office". Other times it will only say location.
- Hovering or clicking on [copy] only says "1Password, window" instead of indicating that there is a copy button or reading the value of location when you click on office. tags, on the other hand, always speaks the embedded tag. "tags, embedded inventory"
When I change Mouse pointer: to Moves VoiceOver Cursor, values for location and tags now only says "1Password, window".
0 -
Hi @ZamboniMan,
Look what you've started :tongue:
The vault selector in the Sidebar doesn't work with VoiceOver either as it fails to update which vault is currently focussed and can be selected. I'm guessing it's because it's a weird looking menu. Anyway, I've reported this ref: OPM-3189. I had a hunch it wouldn't behave given everything we've talked about so far.
Tags don't seem to be handled very elegantly at the moment and I'm hoping a different approach to laying them out might help. If you have more than one tag I can't use the mouse to hover over just one (unless you can instruct me on something I'm missing) and you have to enter a lot of tables it seems when using the keyboard. ref: OPM-3190.
You're quite right, that button is invisible to VoiceOver and the same applies when we transform it into a small option e.g. on password and URL fields. It recognises when we click on it and how many options you have to choose from but it doesn't guide you at all nor is it accessible if you use keys to navigate with VoiceOver. ref: OPM-3191.
I hope you don't mind if I leave it at three bug reports for today and we'll pick this up again :smile:
0 -
Hello @littlebobbytables,
In view mode, I couldn't get the hover to work over tags either but at least clicking on each tag gives you the describe of that individual tag plus the word text.
In edit mode, the hover over each tag only works after you click on one of them first.
The keyboard navigation with VoiceOver has been more annoying than useful but it only makes sense if you already have an idea of what it looks like ahead of time. Trying to figure it out just based on VoiceOver without looking at the screen is a recipe for insanity. Every now and then I get a crash when I turn on VoiceOver and then hit tab when 1Password has the focus. I tried to capture the troubleshooting data but my version says 1Password4Troubleshooting.app and it crashes any time I try to ask it to gather data. Is there a 1Password5Troubleshooting.app? I did a few searches but that didn't produce anything helpful. Where does this tool hide on your website?
Take your time in helping to investigate the VoiceOver problems. I'm just happy that you're taking the time to dig into all the quirky problems.
0 -
Hello @littlebobbytables,
I found the link to the latest diagnostic tool and sent in a report with a link to this thread.
0 -
Thanks! I see that we've received it, so we can continue the conversation via email. We'll take a look at the diagnostics and get back to you shortly! :)
ref: AQF-96692-737
0
