Safari 5.1 extension user interface

Newer Look and Feel in the UI in Safari 5.1
While I appreciate the apparent design effort that seems to have gone into the beta extension, I very much miss the speed of the old dropdowns used in the past. The new design makes 1password seem much more clunky and slow to me.
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Comments

  • roustemroustem AgileBits Founder

    Team Member

    While I appreciate the apparent design effort that seems to have gone into the beta extension, I very much miss the speed of the old dropdowns used in the past. The new design makes 1password seem much more clunky and slow to me.


    I am not sure it is possible with the official Safari API.
  • Maury McCownMaury McCown Junior Member
    Whoa, I am NOT liking the HUUUUUGE dialog overlay with the new beta! I don't want eye candy -- just functionality! The small dialog, using the system windows, is fine. This new monster looks like something Symantec would cook up!

    Please give us the old style back!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Thanks for the feedback, railhead! :-)

    We are trying to work within the limitations of the Safari extension API. The whole extension needs to be created in JavaScript now, so there may be some differences as a result. This is still a beta version, so it is possible things may change in the future.

    Thanks for letting us know what you are looking for.

    Cheers,
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member
    I initially had the same concerns, but Alin brought up the keyboard shortcut (cmd-\) in another thread, and since I've started using it, it's been a MUCH better experience than the old one... I don't even have the 1P button in the toolbar anymore.

    I recognize that that's not terribly relevant to all users- if you want to use the toolbar button, you should have a wonderful experience there too. But just my two cents...

    Also, I realize it's a work-in-progress, so maybe it's already on the list... but I'd love to be able to navigate the list of available logins by typing, rather than mouse/arrow keys

    Carl!
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    CarlD wrote:

    I initially had the same concerns, but Alin brought up the keyboard shortcut (cmd-\) in another thread, and since I've started using it, it's been a MUCH better experience than the old one... I don't even have the 1P button in the toolbar anymore.

    I recognize that that's not terribly relevant to all users- if you want to use the toolbar button, you should have a wonderful experience there too. But just my two cents...

    Also, I realize it's a work-in-progress, so maybe it's already on the list... but I'd love to be able to navigate the list of available logins by typing, rather than mouse/arrow keys

    Carl!


    Hey there, Carl!

    Thanks for the kind words, and voicing your concerns. We are definitely not done with our New Safari Experience...er, extension -- Lion, Safari 5.1, and 1Password 3.6 are still all very beta. ;)

    I tend to agree with you that using the keyboard shortcut is awesome in most circumstances: If there is a single Login item for the site, it just fills it without getting in your way. However, you make a great point that some folks may just prefer using the toolbar button. Right now we are primarily focused on fixing bugs and making sure the functionality is there. Once the Experience (heh) is relatively stable and feature complete it may be time to make another pass on the UI, so keep the feedback coming! :)
  • chrisdrackettchrisdrackett Junior Member
    I guess I would suggest moving to something that doesn't cover the browser window as much. I think my biggest issue is that the window is dead center and takes a while to load. I have multiple logins for many sites, so I often see the window even when using the keyboard commands.

    The other issue is that things like generating a password or grabbing a credit card number are much harder and take longer than before. Before I just had to go into the menu and select the card or select generate, now the process is longer and I need to wait for images, html and JS to load (even if local)
  • chrisdrackettchrisdrackett Junior Member
    brenty wrote:

    it just fills it without getting in your way.


    I don't have this experience with the current beta. Even if I only have a single login the window pops up and I have to then hit enter to fill the login.
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member

    I don't have this experience with the current beta. Even if I only have a single login the window pops up and I have to then hit enter to fill the login.


    The Safari extension doesn't appear to work that way, but the keyboard shortcut functions this way in Firefox.

    I notice I have a bad habit of replying and then introducing new requests in the same post, so here's another one:

    RE: the save login overlay...

    1) I didn't really notice it right away the first few times it showed up... (That's my ADD at work for ya!) Perhaps a color scheme that stands out a little more (but understandably not tons more!)

    2) I actually used said bar for the first time this morning, and it doesn't give you any indication that 1PW is currently in a locked state until it fails... a visual cue in the bar would be nice, regardless.... but it'd be helpful to launch the main popup and give the user an opportunity to unlock (If I were a betting man, I'd wager that you guys are already on that one...)

    And a bit farther afield:

    When things are getting closer to the release, perhaps it'd be prudent to speak to some potential technical concerns people might have with the new extension... the big one for me was that when I first saw the new HTML-based UI, I wondered if I could do evil stuff like capture keystrokes with JS embedded in the page... turns out you can't, since extensions are sandboxed and you can't access the overlay DOM from the original page... but I suspect I won't be the only one curious about that!
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    [font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]Sorry for the confusion guys -- it was entirely mine![/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
    [/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]I guess I bounce around a little too much for my own good. You are correct that the Safari extension is very intrusive at this point. Fixing this is a high priority, but not as high as making sure all of the core functionality is there and that it is fairly stable. We will get there one step at a time. :)[/font]
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member
    edited May 2011
    Just installed beta 18 of the extension, and at first, it was really unresponsive... keyboard shortcut and toolbar button both did nothing on most pages, but worked on some... for whatever reason, it seems to be working fine now...However, in the process of trying to sort out why that was happening, came across the attached screenshot...

    Little bastards at CNN also use 2147483647 for their z-index :)

  • chrisdrackettchrisdrackett Junior Member
    I've also noticed that the new extensions isn't as "smart" as the old. It'll often say I don't have a login to a site where I do, and sometimes even if I have a login saved, it won't input it correctly. Maybe theses issues belong in a new thread..
  • roustemroustem AgileBits Founder

    Team Member
    CarlD wrote:

    Little bastards at CNN also use 2147483647 for their z-index :)


    Thank you for the screenshot! We'll get it fixed.
  • roustemroustem AgileBits Founder

    Team Member

    I've also noticed that the new extensions isn't as "smart" as the old. It'll often say I don't have a login to a site where I do, and sometimes even if I have a login saved, it won't input it correctly. Maybe theses issues belong in a new thread..


    I hope to make it better in the next update. Thanks!
  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited May 2011
    CarlD wrote:

    Little bastards at CNN also use 2147483647 for their z-index :)


    Thanks for the laugh! I literally laughed out loud on this one as that's exactly how I felt! Extensions should be allowed to use 2147483648 ;)

    I'm happy to say Roustem found a very slick fix for this and it is in the currently available beta (#19).
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member
    roustem wrote:

    I hope to make it better in the next update. Thanks!


    It's definitely better again!

    UI tweaks look good and the CNN login box works as expected... steady progress!
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member
    edited May 2011
    dteare wrote:

    Thanks for the laugh! I literally laughed out loud on this one as that's exactly how I felt! Extensions should be allowed to use 2147483648 ;)

    I'm happy to say Roustem found a very slick fix for this and it is in the currently available beta (#19).


    Haha, I wonder if there's an established notion of Z-Index Hubris... if you think about it, it's a really aggressive power move... "There absolutely cannot exist a DOM element that's more important than this content!"
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited May 2011
    CarlD wrote:

    Haha, I wonder if there's an established notion of Z-Index Hubris... if you think about it, it's a really aggressive power move... "There absolutely cannot exist a DOM element that's more important than this content!"


    I lol'd.

    In all seriousness though, the guys are hard at work on the new Safari Lion extension and, while it is still in its infancy relatively speaking, they're really making rapid progress! If you guys think of anything else, just let us know. We really appreciate the feedback! :)

    By the way, I happened across this image, which seems to indicate that your Z-Index Hubris theory is correct, Carl:

    huh.gif

    [font="'Times New Roman"]*The views and opinions expressed in this parody screenshot are those of Z-Index Hubris and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any agency of AgileBits or the military industrial complex that is tracking all of us at this very minute. Except the Canadians. [/font][font="'Times New Roman"]Nobody worries aboot what the Canadians are up to.[/font]
    ZIH.jpg 76.5K
  • epogueepogue Junior Member
    Using a popover a la the Chrome extension should be possible with the new Safari 5.1 extension APIs, shouldn't it? That would definitely work around the z-index bugs. :P
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Welcome to the forums, epogue!

    I do believe that there were issues with certain tab preferences in Safari when using the same pop-up window approach that we use in Chrome. :S

    Not all users have these set to allow 1Password to work in that way:
    20110608-dcgud9yekn63kmeq7k2y4arc5w.png
    We thought it was better to change 1Password rather than try to make ever user set their tab preferences to something very specific. Not a good user experience. ;-)
  • epogueepogue Junior Member
    edited June 2011
    Hi Khad! Glad to be here.

    I think I see what you're talking about (opening a new window with JS), but I'm actually talking about a new Safari 5.1 API that lets you create Chrome-like popovers that anchor to the toolbar item. Again, this might be just as infeasible (it probably doesn't work if the toolbar button isn't being shown, and I currently don't even see a way to call it through JS).

    Here's an example I just made.
    Edit: Confirmed that if the toolbar button isn't being shown, it doesn't work, but I did find a way to call the popover up through JS. Tricky business since the API isn't actually documented yet from what I can tell.
  • Hi,

    I understand you turned 1Password into a real and native Safari 5.1 extension but :
    • I think we're all used to the old UI
    • The old popup UI was very intuitive and FAST / The new popup is super nice but it's a little bit "too much"
    • I personally don't care about the "1P" toolbar button (I remove it from the toolbar just after install) but I really car about the Go&Fill keyboard shortcut (that doesn't work)

    Do I have any question ? Meh, not really. ;-)
    Thanks for this great app guys. ;-)
  • chrisdrackettchrisdrackett Junior Member
    edited June 2011
    Nice!

    I also wonder about adding things to the contextual menu (things like generate password, fill, etc) to get closer to the 1-click behavior we used to have :)
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited June 2011
    Thanks for the feedback, folks!

    Check out the Chrome extension some for hints at where things may be headed. When visiting a website in Chrome for which you only have a single saved Login, ⌘\ will fill and submit without any popup (just like the Snow Leopard Safari extension). There are also a whole host of keyboard shortcuts for the Chrome extension.

    We aren't done yet (it is still beta after all), and your input is much appreciated. :-D
  • Hi.

    Now I'd have a few questions or remarks :

    • Could you make the fade&zoom animation really faster or instant ?
    • It looks like Safari ask for my master password each time I relaunch it.
    • Why does the extension not submit automatically if there is only one login saved for the current webiste ?
    • The old extension system was able to submit the login even if the page wasn't completely loaded. I miss that.

    Globally, I feel like the new native extension is making my internet experience slower. ;)
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Could you make the fade&zoom animation really faster or instant ?

    I'll pass your request along to the developers, but I think that the combination of everything running within the browser as JavaScript and PBKDF2 iterations increasing, the new Safari extension may be slightly slower under similar conditions compared to the older extension. However, there are many benefits to having a native Safari extension not the least of which is code portability which will likely help the extension improve more quickly across all supported browsers. There are a lot of changes going on at once (JavaScript code, native Safari extension APIs, beta browser, pre-release operating system, etc.) so it is hard to make a direct comparison to the old extension running in stable old Snow Leopard. Give it time. It will become more optimized as we progress. ;-)

    It looks like Safari ask for my master password each time I relaunch it.

    We are looking at our options for the security model here. This is a specific departure from the Snow Leopard extension at the moment, and I am not sure if the security ramifications have been fully vetted to allow autounlock in Lion just yet.

    Why does the extension not submit automatically if there is only one login saved for the current webiste ?

    Because it is still a beta extension in a beta browser in a pre-beta operating system. :-P We're working as fast as we can. Just a note to everyone who was wondering why we began Lion development "so long" ago. Now it seems like it is just around the corner! <img class=" />

    The old extension system was able to submit the login even if the page wasn't completely loaded. I miss that.

    I don't know that there is anything to be done about that using Safari's native extension APIs, but you can be sure the developers are working hard to improve speed in every possible way they can. The extension is not yet even feature complete, so optimizations may still be a little ways away. :-)

    Globally, I feel like the new native extension is making my internet experience slower.

    You may want to stick with Snow Leopard until Lion is actually released then. :-P

    Seriously, though. We appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming.
  • Hi, first post ever in here, never felt necessary to say anything about 1Password as I've always felt it was perfect. Not so much now :(
    I understand that the framework has changed and therefore the extension had to change, but... previously, it was possible to go to a website, fill in the login details, and force a save by clicking on the toolbar button or the 1P on the menubar and select save login... Now it's not possible anymore! It's just like the chrome extension, which I think is very inferior. I'm not trying to undermine anyone's work here, please don't get me wrong. I just feel that the current state of the Safari extension for Lion is, to say the least, useless. I was really confused that I also couldn't update a current login, which was possible previously by forcing a save and selecting an existing login item from the list, and saving over it. I think that it was called "replace" in the extension. I just don't see the point of using 1Password anymore because Safari offers to save logins already, and the credit card filling facility was great as well and I can't use it now :(
    I'm just so angry, sad, frustrated, annoyed... Not with Agile, because 1Password is wonderful. But with Apple. Why do they take off the scripting facility away and don't offer APIs to replace functionality is just beyond comprehension. I used to love 1Password but now that it can do little for me and isn't so flexible, I'm not sure what the point of using it is anymore... I hope that people from Agile reading this can come up with other ways to give back the functionality that was taken away by Apple's decision to remove the scripting, I really love 1Password and don't want to stop using it, please don't just give us what is in the current beta because that's not sufficient, I'm sure you guys can do better!
    Thanks :)
  • CarlDCarlD Junior Member
    edited June 2011
    Have no fear, they're working on it! They've been exploring the new limitations of 5.1, and taking our feedback to make the best experience possible... I totally agree with you (and I'm sure Agile does too) that it's not there yet... but fully confident that they'll nail it!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited June 2011
    Welcome to the forums, fcar! Thanks for taking the time to post. We really appreciate the feedback. I merged your post with the Safari UI thread which I think I may end up renaming to reflect the truth that Steve Jobs has stated plainly, “Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.” :-)

    Also, thank you to CarlD for your kind words!

    You can read the conversations above, but I wanted to specifically address a few points in your post in particular.

    Manually saving a login is still present in the Safari 5.1 extension. It is even the exact same steps: Click the 1P button in your toolbar and then click "Save Login." :-)

    Credit card filling also works well in Safari 5.1 (and Chrome). In fact, the algorithms have been much-improved from the Snow Leopard extension. If you are having trouble with credit card filling, perhaps there is a bigger problem on your particular machine that we need to address. I'd love to get to the bottom of it if you want to shoot me an email at [email protected] (Please include a link to this thread so I can connect the dots once the email finds its way to our inbox.)

    Please do keep in mind that this is a beta extension of a beta application running in a beta browser in a pre-release (pre-beta) operating system. (Say that ten times fast!) <img class=" /> It is not yet feature complete, but we continue to improve it at a steady clip. I hope it continues to work as well for you in the future as it has in the past. But you will have to pardon the growing pains. We have made the development of the new version open to the public, so you are seeing the "in-between" phase before our beautiful butterfly has fully emerged from its cocoon. B)

    If there is anything else I can help with, don't hesitate to let me know.

    Cheers!
  • khad wrote:
    (...)

    Thanks for the reply Khad. I clearly understand the point when you say it's a beta extension for a beta browser in a beta OS.
    As you said, I was just giving some feedback. :)
  • CarID, khad, thanks a lot for the posts :)

    khad, the 1P button wasn't there but I added it manually now, I still can't see an option to "replace" a login, isn't it possible to implement a checkbox system? Let me explain… If I went to mail.live.com, and typed my credentials, when I tried to submit them, 1P would offer me to save them for me. Next time, I could only do +\ and it would submit the credentials for me. If for any reason (like changing my password in Windows live) I wanted to update the login in 1P, I could fill in the credentials, click on the 1P button, and ask 1P to instead of create a new login, to replace the current one. Isn't it possible to do the same, so when I click on the 1P button on a page where credentials are already present, I can click a checkbox beside the login I want to update, and then click "update" instead of save? In case there are more than 1 login, the checkbox system would allow me to choose which one of them for that domain I wanted to replace over with the new credentials. That would really make the extension work at least 50% as well as the one in 10.6 in terms of features.

    And I can't say that ten times fast LOL

    I also think that the animation of the UI is slow like others mentioned, so hopefully that will be snappy by the time Lion is released.

    Thanks a lot for replying so fast!
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