Safari 5.1 extension user interface

2

Comments

  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Hey fcar,

    Thanks a lot for replying so fast!

    I didn't want to keep raising expectations for response time too high, so I thought I would lower them this time. (Just kidding. I was off the last couple days, or I would have responded sooner. I promise!) :-D

    I think "Save Login" has a little bit to go before it works the way we would like it to. To get an idea of where things are probably headed, you can check out the Chrome extension (which works great in Lion too). You will see the (likely familiar) save dialog with a drop-down selection of "Create New Login" or "Replace [login]".

    20110617-jbpgrn4uf9uhjct5tjg5j29t94.jpg

    This will look different in Safari when implemented, and we are even looking at improving the whole create/replace/update process, so there is much that is still in flux.

    And I can't say that ten times fast LOL

    I'll make a snippet in TextExapnder so we can at least type it faster. <img class=" />

    Sorry I don't have a better answer just yet, but I don't think you will be disappointed as the Safari extension progresses.
  • Hi guys,

    Thanks for jumping on development for a 1P extension for Lion!

    With the new extension (currently beta 40), when I use Command-\ to fill my logins, even if I only have one login for the site, it pops up the 1P window and I have to select the (only) entry to continue. Is this intentional? I really liked the old behavior where Command-\ would fill the login and send me on my way.

    Thanks,

    -kevin
  • Hi khad, thanks again for replying! No worries, I'm not hushing anything because I have stuff to do as well, so won't be over here watching things like a hawk :D

    I use Chrome with the extension, in fact, Chrome is my main browser. I noticed that Safari in Lion is using a similar interface, and this is fine, but even in Chrome there's no replacement of logins or anything such as the lovely options presented on the screenshot you attached to your reply. Unless I'm doing something wrong!? Because I can't see a replace option in the Chrome extension, it's just in native Safari in Snow Leopard that I get the replace option (in the "old" interface). I hope that at least the functionality can be implemented quickly in Chrome, a different way to deal with it could be lower priority in my opinion, I think that giving functionality back is more important, but that's not my company and I don't know the plans :) I can only hope!

    Oh, never mind about saying it fast, making a shortcut is way better haha :D

    I can't wait to see what's up for the extensions, both for Safari and Chrome. I actually prefer Chrome due to better sync, multiplatform operation, it's smooth, users webkit... can't fault Google, they did a great job in such a short period!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited June 2011
    Welcome to the forums, Kevin. I merged your post with this thread where I think you will be right at home. :-)

    Please see my post above for my remarks on your specific request. The rest of the thread will likely also be of interest to you, but I don't want to overwhelm you on your first visit. <img class=" />

    Thank you for your kind words!

    fcar, I am also using Chrome as my main browser. I am a big fan of Chrome at the moment. The screen shot I posted above of the save dialog should pop up when you save a login in Chrome and Firefox in Lion (and Safari in Snow Leopard but we're talking Lion here I think). If you want to test it, be aware that manually saving a login does not currently work in Chrome if the login has the same password as one you already have saved. To test it out, just type in a bunch of gibberish in the username and password field (or visit a site for which you don't already have a saved login).

    As I understand it, the current plan is to unify the codebase for all browser extensions so improvements can be made once and applied across the board. As you can imagine, this gives the devs a strong passion for improving things: they don't have to do it multiple times! I am very optimistic about the future of 1Password's browser integration. I think you can be too. :-)

    Please let me know about that save dialog though. Perhaps it would be best to start a new troubleshooting thread if you are still having trouble with it. I feel bad clogging up this nice UI thread with my ramblings. ;-)
  • Hi,

    I really hope I'm missing something, but I don't quite understand how I'm meant to use 1Password in Lion with Safari 5.1. The right-click autofill menu is gone and I can't seem to do auto-fill any more.

    I have a domain credential (a uid/password combo that works on a lot of different forms within a particular web domain) that I have in 1Password once. In Firefox 4 I can right-click on any form requesting me to login, choose 1Password > Fill Login > (Credential) or use Command-\, pick the login from a popup with the keyboard, and away I go. It fills in the same uid/password for any form I would like it to, and it works great.

    WIth the Safari 5.1 plugin, I get a big pop-up window that can only be navigated with the mouse. I have to find the credential in "All Logins", and when I select it, it takes me to the page saved on that credential rather than filling it in on the page I'm on.

    So, what am I missing? Is there a setting somewhere I've missed that can get the old behaviour to work in Safari? Or is this a temporary situation? If this is the default behaviour going forward, I'll be sticking with Firefox 4, which I'd rather not as there are some nice integration features coming in Lion for Safari and iCloud I'd like to take advantage of.
  • A few observations, running on latest Lion Dev Preview and latest 1Password Version 3.6.0 (build 31043 w/ plug-in 0.0.1.BETA-21 in Safari Version 5.1 (7534.45):
    1. 1P icon or Cmd-\ only bring up window if I'm at a site. If I'm at a blank page, nothing. Unlike Chrome or Safari on Snow Leopard. Definitely a usability issue.
    2. When the lock screen comes up from Safari, there is no way to dismiss it, other than by logging in successfully. On Chrome, you can click focus elsewhere and it will disappear.
    3. If #1 is addressed, then it would be useful to have the default be the All Logins screen when invoking from a blank tab...since the Saved Logins for this site is empty. Save a keystroke, please.
    4. Cursor arrow keys do work, thank you!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Welcome to the forums, BenS and edleft!

    I merged your posts withe the appropriate thread for discussion about the new user interface in Safari 5.1 on Lion. Please see above. :-)

    I really hope I'm missing something, but I don't quite understand how I'm meant to use 1Password in Lion with Safari 5.1. The right-click autofill menu is gone and I can't seem to do auto-fill any more.

    There are lot of features still missing from our beta extension running in a beta browser in a pre-beta operating system, but you should be able to use the ⌘\ and ⌥⌘\ keyboard shortcuts just as you always have in addition to clicking the 1P toolbar button. If this is not working for you, then you should start a separate troubleshooting thread.

    WIth the Safari 5.1 plugin, I get a big pop-up window that can only be navigated with the mouse. I have to find the credential in "All Logins", and when I select it, it takes me to the page saved on that credential rather than filling it in on the page I'm on.

    You should be able to use the arrow keys alone with the Tab key to toggle between "Logins for this site" and "All Logins". Selecting the login from the list of "Logins for this site" should fill the login. "All Logins" is equivalent to the "Go & Fill" feature in the Firefox extension. If you are having trouble with a particular URL, please include that in the troubleshooting thread.

    So, what am I missing? Is there a setting somewhere I've missed that can get the old behaviour to work in Safari? Or is this a temporary situation? If this is the default behaviour going forward, I'll be sticking with Firefox 4, which I'd rather not as there are some nice integration features coming in Lion for Safari and iCloud I'd like to take advantage of.

    It is really hard to tell from your post if you just don't like the way thing are or they are behaving incorrectly. Hopefully my reply here (along with all the discussion above) can help clarify which of those two is the case, and we can go from there. I will reiterate that the Safari 5.1 extension is still not feature complete and is running on a pre-release operating system. As a developer yourself, I'm sure you understand.

    1. 1P icon or Cmd-\ only bring up window if I'm at a site. If I'm at a blank page, nothing. Unlike Chrome or Safari on Snow Leopard. Definitely a usability issue.

    I'm not able to duplicate your results in Chrome. This has been the case in the Chrome extension from its inception. Like the Chrome extension, the new Safari extension is using the native browser extension APIs which means it works a little differently than the old binary extension which was hooking into Safari via Scripting Additions (support for which Apple removed from Lion). I am not certain of the possibility of this changing in Safari — the APIs are different than Chrome but there are still limitations not present in a binary extension. I explain it more fully in the aforelinked thread.

    2. When the lock screen comes up from Safari, there is no way to dismiss it, other than by logging in successfully. On Chrome, you can click focus elsewhere and it will disappear.

    20110622-jyhrw8mipnyw1p6cbu9rhgtu2e.jpg

    3. If #1 is addressed, then it would be useful to have the default be the All Logins screen when invoking from a blank tab...since the Saved Logins for this site is empty. Save a keystroke, please.

    If it is possible, that would be a great idea. In the meantime, as I mentioned above, you can press Tab to toggle this.

    4. Cursor arrow keys do work, thank you!

    Glad we got something right. :-P

    We use 1Password probably more than anyone (I couldn't function on my computer without it), so we are very aware of a lot of these issues already. However, there are always different perspectives, and we can never have enough of them.

    Thanks for the feedback, folks! Keep it coming.
  • khad wrote:

    Welcome to the forums, BenS and edleft!

    I merged your posts withe the appropriate thread for discussion about the new user interface in Safari 5.1 on Lion. Please see above. :-)


    Sorry I missed this thread when I posted.

    You should be able to use the arrow keys alone with the Tab key to toggle between "Logins for this site" and "All Logins". Selecting the login from the list of "Logins for this site" should fill the login. "All Logins" is equivalent to the "Go & Fill" feature in the Firefox extension. If you are having trouble with a particular URL, please include that in the troubleshooting thread.


    Ah, OK, tab does switch... it's pretty slow but I'm sure that will be optimized before release. Mea culpa, it hadn't occurred to me to use the tab key to switch between the two modes... it might not hurt to support using the left/right cursor keys for that.

    It is really hard to tell from your post if you just don't like the way thing are or they are behaving incorrectly. Hopefully my reply here (along with all the discussion above) can help clarify which of those two is the case, and we can go from there. I will reiterate that the Safari 5.1 extension is still not feature complete and is running on a pre-release operating system. As a developer yourself, I'm sure you understand.


    To be honest, I don't like the extension the way it is, but I understand why it has to be different. Hopefully with some tweaking and refinements it can be as good or better as the more tightly integrated experience we're used to from previous versions.

    With the key navigation problem out of the way, the other issue is the shared credential problem I'm having. It's on an intranet, so I'm afraid I can't give you specific URLs to test, but the general problem is this:

    The main credential is stored as 'domain.com' (user/pass). When I go to 'projects.domain.com' or 'wiki.domain.com', or 'secure.domain.com', I need to use the same credential (I know it should be single sign-on but bear with me, Central IT has their policies... :-)). In Firefox 4, the 'domain.com' credential shows up as a valid fill-in option for anything matching 'domain.com'. More importantly, when I use Cmd-\ to auto-fill, it autofills and takes me right in. The Safari 5.1 extension, however, tries to open 'domain.com' (browsing AWAY from the page I'm trying to log into in the process).

    Hope that's clear and that you can reproduce it. If not let me know and I'll try to pare down the problem description some more. If there's a different way to set this up to work, I'm more than happy to change. I'm sure I'm not using 1Password "optimally' in this instance, but I've never had an issue like this before.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited June 2011
    The domain matching has been completely rewritten and is still being tweaked in the Safari 5.1 extension. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer right now, but I will pass your use case along to the developers. There are a number of niggles all of us on the team still have with the beta extension. :-)

    Depending on how the domain matching ends up, it may be better to request "linked accounts" for this sort of "pseudo single sign on". Thank you for reminding me about this, though! I will make sure your voice gets heard. In my opinion, we definitely need to account for this type of scenario.

    I can't promise anything specific other than I am fighting for the cause too. ;-)
  • xyglyxxyglyx Junior Member
    epogue wrote:

    Edit: Confirmed that if the toolbar button isn't being shown, it doesn't work, but I did find a way to call the popover up through JS. Tricky business since the API isn't actually documented yet from what I can tell.


    Out of curiosity, how did you get the popover to pop using a script? I didn't see how that can be done.

    (BTW in case you didn't know, you can now get the Safari 5.1 extension api reference as a PDF file from http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/download.action?path=/Documents/safari_extensions_reference/safariextensionsreference.pdf — you may have to log in first.)
  • Hello! I am still on the fence about the new BETA -- good things and bad. One thing that I am not sure has been covered in previous posts is the lack of Extension preferences. Right now when I change anything in the 1Password app, specifically the "Automatic Unlock" isn't working. In Safari 5.1 on 10.7, it is constantly prompting me for my master password (which is incredibly annoying) even though the setting in 1password is set to have auto unlock. Thoughts?
  • richsadamsrichsadams Junior Member
    MacHead85 wrote:

    Hello! I am still on the fence about the new BETA -- good things and bad. One thing that I am not sure has been covered in previous posts is the lack of Extension preferences. Right now when I change anything in the 1Password app, specifically the "Automatic Unlock" isn't working. In Safari 5.1 on 10.7, it is constantly prompting me for my master password (which is incredibly annoying) even though the setting in 1password is set to have auto unlock. Thoughts?


    I'm frustrated by the same issue..."Disable Auto Unlock" is unchecked in 1PW preferences but still requires me to enter my master PW even after having entered it in the little popover box on the web page.

    I'm not a big fan of that popover box either. I'd much rather click on the 1PW toolbar button and have the Username and PW entered automatically as it was in SL. This second step is very annoying...guessing it's temporary?

    Hopefully these issues can be resolved by the time Lion is released.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Welcome to the forums, MacHead85!

    Lack of autounlock in the Safari 5.1 beta extension in Apple's pre-beta developer preview OS is a known issue. Thanks for mentioning this again.

    I think the rest of the issues are addressed in my posts above. ;-)

    The extension is still not feature complete. Thanks for helping us prioritize things, though. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please let me know.
  • sylvansylvan Junior Member
    I just upgraded to 3.6.1 beta 2 (build 31052) and installed the Safari 5.1 extension. What happened to the old interface? The old listing in my browser has now changed to a dialog box. In order to fill in a password it takes three clicks as opposed to one in the old interface. Assure me that that will change!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Thanks for asking about this, Sylvan. I merged your post with the appropriate thread. Please see above.

    The short answer is that things are very much still in flux. The Chrome extension still supports single-keystroke login, and I don't know of any reason this won't be implemented in Safari 5.1. I just don't have a time time frame.
  • Sorry if this is not the right place but I really am missing the old Safari UI. Firefox still has the better functioning UI but Safari has adopted the clumsy Chrome style.
    I swear I am not the "I hate anything different" guy. Am I alone in this?
  • bswinsbswins Agile Customer Care
    edited June 2011
    Hello mwreed and welcome to the Forums!

    I merged your topic with a similar thread...which, by the way, should indicate that you are definitely not alone regarding your comments.

    If it helps to know, I wasn't a big fan of the change either. Regardless, it happened for a good reason.

    Please read through the thread for more details, but the primary reason for the change is the new Safari API. The rules have changed.

    I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you at this time.

    Cheers!

    Brandt
  • edited June 2011
    Grrr! Apple and their iron fisted control of everything. If the results weren't so amazing I swear I would hate them.
    Excellent product btw! I buy it for all my friends, without even asking them, and bask in their appreciation for years to come.
  • JHPJHP Junior Member
    I know the new UI is a work in progress, but just writing to say I really miss the folders. An alphabetized list isn't always the best way to find things.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    JHP, I think this is our Mac OS X. Remember when it first came out and everyone was still using Classic because it was time-tested, well-worn, stable, and proven? Eventually OS X trounced Classic, and I think we will get there in time with the Safari 5.1 extension as well, but these are the beginning steps of what will eventually become the best damn browser extension you use. :-)

    Some immediate benefits are small (like the ability to actually move the @#%$;ing toolbar button and have it stay where you put it). <img class=" /> Other benefits are more longterm like a unified codebase so improvements can happen more rapidly across all the browser extensions. This really is a win because once Firefox gets the new extension as well, all dev time spent on The One True Extension will benefit every 1Password user regardless of which browser they are using. Right now, the development is splintered which makes it hard to have passion (because the passion must persist across multiple coding sessions often to implement the same thing several times). The upshot is that in just short while, you should be able to see the pace quicken and little niggles become a thing of the past.

    I think each of us has that one feature that would just seal the deal. The trouble is that they are different for each of us, and we need to prioritize which ones to attack first. Right now, the foundation is still being laid. Soon enough we will be adding the fancy sliding doors from Star Trek. <img class=" />

    Please keep the feedback coming. I'm sure this thread will only become move valuable as we get closer to that!
  • ylluminateylluminate Junior Member
    I've been very unhappy with 1Password on testing it's behavior of now vs how it used to function prior to being a Safari extension. Strange things happen frequently like asking for master password constantly, closing the drop down bar is a pain. On and on. I really wish the old bar and mechanics were back and emulated as closely as possible. The new one is just not satisfactory and 1PW has been a lifeline for as long as it was in initial beta.

    I actually am starting to like RobotForm Online's behavior better. It's acting better and feeling better than the new 1PW extension.

    Hope you guys can sort this out and get it together as otherwise I just am about to give up on it.
  • edited July 2011
    I'm going to have to agree, the new Chrome and now Safari extensions are clunky compared to the old droop down menu. It is really disappointing.

    Having the old 1password icon in the Safari menubar for me was superb.
  • ok why when i do the shortcut does it popup the window? it used to just auto fill and submit. i have checked all the options and they look good to go yet now when i hit the shortcut its asking for the master password and once i put that in then it brings up the window to actually click the login i want to use yet i only have one login stored for Facebook... I'm on lion gm.
  • richsadamsrichsadams Junior Member
    edited July 2011
    jacobgaul wrote:

    ok why when i do the shortcut does it popup the window? it used to just auto fill and submit. i have checked all the options and they look good to go yet now when i hit the shortcut its asking for the master password and once i put that in then it brings up the window to actually click the login i want to use yet i only have one login stored for Facebook... I'm on lion gm.


    That's the same thing we're all seeing...and fussing about. It sounds like they're working on making the functionality the same as it is in SL (I certainly hope so) but haven't gotten there yet. Word has it Lion will go public the 14th so hopefully we won't have to wait much longer.
  • richsadams wrote:

    That's the same thing we're all seeing...and fussing about. It sounds like they're working on making the functionality the same as it is in SL (I certainly hope so) but haven't gotten there yet. Word has it Lion will go public the 14th so hopefully we won't have to wait much longer.


    ahh ok i wasn't sure thanks for clearing it up.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited July 2011
    Hey folks,

    I merged some of your posts into this thread. I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to keep things "on topic" as much as possible to keep the discussion flowing. :-)

    I've been very unhappy with 1Password on testing it's behavior of now vs how it used to function prior to being a Safari extension.

    ylluminate, I'm really sorry to hear that. I would ask for specifics, but it looks like they follow. :-)

    Strange things happen frequently like asking for master password constantly, closing the drop down bar is a pain.

    This is a known issue that we are working on (see Autounlock not currently supported in Safari 5.1 for more details).

    On and on.

    Oh. I thought there was going to be more. Please do continue, though! We really value your feedback, but we may not improve in the manner in which you would like if we don't know what the issues are for you. So far, you only mentioned one thing which is a known issue. Until the issue is resolved, you will only be prompted for your master password if you restart Safari or 1Password has otherwise locked. We apologize for the temporary inconvenience.

    I really wish the old bar and mechanics were back and emulated as closely as possible. The new one is just not satisfactory and 1PW has been a lifeline for as long as it was in initial beta. … Hope you guys can sort this out and get it together as otherwise I just am about to give up on it.

    I'm going to have to agree, the new Chrome and now Safari extensions are clunky compared to the old droop down menu. It is really disappointing.

    We're working as hard as we can, Mangoes. For better or worse, Apple has removed Scripting Additions from Lion, so the method by which the previous extension was integrating with Safari is simply not possible to implement going forward. It sounds like once we get auto unlock working in Safari 5.1, you will be all set. Please let me know if there is something else I can help with, though.

    Having the old 1password icon in the Safari menubar for me was superb.

    Technically, the icon is still the same. <img class=" /> I know that's not what you meant, but in all seriousness, because the Safari 5.1 extension is now using Safari's native extension APIs there are technical differences which prevent the extension from both looking and behaving identically to the previous one which used Scripting Additions to "hook into" Safari 5.0.

    That's not to say that there isn't room for improvement. There definitely is! But we don't call ourselves AgileBits for no reason. The two things that will improve the Safari 5.1 experience for the greatest number of users in my opinion are (1) autounlock and (2) single-keystroke login. If you have used (or are also using) the Chrome extension, you will see that both of these are already implemented there which may give you a taste of what is in store (though there will also be much more)!

    Thanks for your passion here. We don't take it for granted and are working to make your experience with 1Password — in all browsers! — the best it can be.

    Cheers,
  • ylluminateylluminate Junior Member
    khad, thanks for the note and being interested in our input. The bottom line is that you were golden in the last pre 5.1 plugins that did not use the standard new Safari extension support. The UI is flatly terrible now. I hate using 1PW anymore and I've used it literally forever and used to chat with the original creators a bit. Just saying that I have a long, long relationship with it and it's just gone to the toilet now in the most recent revisions. The Chrome plugin always stank, but now the Safari is equally as bad.

    I realize that the native support limits you guys to a degree, but if that is the case, then go back to the old methods as it is still supported via SIMBL in Lion. It would be much wiser to do this than to release what you've got right now. The differentials are too involved to just enumerate here from the old vs the new. But suffice it to say that you have near perfection in the old Safari plugin. If you can bring that to Safari 5.1 and Chrome then you will have some extremely happy and satisfied customers who will not be open for the upcoming alternatives who see an opportunity to eat your lunch.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    edited July 2011
    ylluminate, we really do appreciate your longstanding support of 1Password (and AgileBits). I don't think I can express that enough! Thank you.

    Unfortunately, SIMBL is an unsupported "hack" which would still require a complete rewrite, and as far as I know it hasn't been updated since January and doesn't support Lion. :S

    As I mentioned above, 1Password's Safari 5.0 extension used Scripting Additions (not SIMBL or Input Managers or any other technology) to integrate with Safari and Apple has removed support for this going forward. This actually gives us an incredible amount of freedom in many ways (some of which will not be obvious for a number of months). Apple continues to tighten the security model in OS X to the point where applications can be optionally sandboxed similar to how they are in iOS. From a security standpoint, there is a huge benefit to this, and native browser extensions in Safari, Chrome, and Firefox align very well with this trajectory.

    Nothing is written in stone. :-)

    The UI and UX are both still subject to change.

    Thanks again for your feedback. I will pass it along to the rest of the team.
  • xyglyxxyglyx Junior Member
    khad wrote:

    ylluminate, we really do appreciate your longstanding support of 1Password (and AgileBits). I don't think I can express that enough! Thank you.

    Unfortunately, SIMBL is an unsupported "hack" which would still require a complete rewrite, and as far as I know it hasn't been updated since January and doesn't support Lion. :S

    As I mentioned above, 1Password's Safari 5.0 extension used Scripting Additions (not SIMBL or Input Managers or any other technology) to integrate with Safari and Apple has removed support for this going forward. This actually gives us an incredible amount of freedom in many ways (some of which will not be obvious for a number of months). Apple continues to tighten the security model in OS X to the point where applications can be optionally sandboxed similar to how they are in iOS. From a security standpoint, there is a huge benefit to this, and native browser extensions in Safari, Chrome, and Firefox align very well with this trajectory.

    Nothing is written in stone. :-)

    The UI and UX are both still subject to change.

    Thanks again for your feedback. I will pass it along to the rest of the team.


    Well, unlike some people, I completely support your huge effort to modernize the Safari extension, and being a Safari extension developer myself, I sympathize with your troubles. Keep up the great work!

    I do have one question. The Chrome extension uses a "native" popover, while the Safari 5.1 extension uses an iframe. Why did you decide on that approach?
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Thanks for the kind words of support, xyglyx!

    I can't speak for the developers but my guess is that the APIs were not available at the time development began. There is talk of using a popover in the future, but it is only talk at the moment. I don't have any information right now on when or even if the extension will use a popover, but I think it is a great idea.
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