Multiple local vaults [feature request]

13

Comments

  • I have families A, B, C, D, E, and F each with 1Password family subscriptions that the whole family uses (parents and children) with an average of 5 people per family. That's 30 people using 1Password. There are several logins that all parents from all families need access to (12 parents from 6 different 1Password Family accounts). How do I share a vault between all of these parents?

    Option A:
    Create a shared opvault in Dropbox and share it with everyone. This is great, except several of these families use Windows and Android devices which can't open this vault!

    Option B:
    Create another 1Password Families account and pay another $12 per month on top of the subscriptions that all of the families are already paying, have everyone create an account on this new family, and add this account to all of their 1Password applications.

    Option A is much more appealing, especially because we are all already paying subscription fees!

  • Something that would make Option B palatable is if you allowed free accounts with unlimited users that are only for shared vaults and don't include the 1Password desktop or phone applications but do include online access.

    I'd still prefer that all versions of your program on all platforms supported Dropbox vaults and multiple vaults though.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @adamjb: I really don't like Option B as it does complicate things, but I don't quite understand why Option A won't work in some form (with a single shared local vault alongside 1Password Accounts)...but again that's more work for you, and there isn't a change in 1Password that would avoid that.

    Personally, I'd go with "Option C": a single, inclusive 1Password Family with vaults shared between specific members of the subsidiary families as needed. Obviously that's not going to be a good option for everyone, but if it is for you, you may even find that it costs less since each of the families now may not be using a full 5 members. If you can manage that, it would also mean some simplification as everyone would only have a single login — their 1Password Account — rather than more than one, or Dropbox credentials, etc. Free 1Password Accounts really aren't feasible since the service has very real recurring costs and we're not going to accept advertising, venture capital, or sell customer information. Literally the only revenue we have is from our customers. Anyway, if this is something you'd want to explore, let me know and we can split this off into a separate discussion.

  • @peri This is by far the most requested feature of The 1Password for Android

    This topic is more then two years old, and until today we don't have the multiple vaults feature

    All of the others plataforms that runs 1password already support this feature.

    Why is taking so long to 1Password for Android to implement this ?

    And no ofense, but you guys just answer by saying "I'll go ahead and add you vote" or something like that

    Many loyal customers are abandoning 1Password just because the can't have acess to their others vaults they have created, if they want to do that, at least in Android, they have to became a 1Password subscriber

    It's past time, you guys add this feature to 1Password for Android

    I'm hope that maybe this year, we get the multiple vaults feature

    Thanks

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @stefanodottori: There are a lot of popular feature requests, and unfortunately we're not able to do all of them at once. If we had those kinds of resources, I think you're probably right: we could have implemented support for multiple local vaults in 1Password for Android long ago, and some folks would have really appreciated that (myself included).

    But you're absolutely correct that currently the only multiple vault option for 1Password for Android users involves the 1Password.com subscription service. If you had any idea how often we were asked for this service by various companies you'd understand why we built 1Password Teams in the first place. When we introduced it in beta last year, many people used it for their families and asked for family pricing, so the obvious next step was 1Password for Families subscriptions. I'm sure you can imagine what the next big request was at that point, by individuals who weren't living with a family, so we are now giving all three groups of people exactly what they requested. If people weren't requesting these things, we very well might have never spent the time (and money) it took to create the new 1Password account platform, but we were asked for them many times over the years leading up to 1Password Teams, so we did.

    I guess what I'm trying to illustrate is that there's a bigger picture: While this is a relatively popular feature request from 1Password for Android users, 1Password.com allows us to offer the same thing (multiple vaults) as a better experience (no setup) for many more 1Password users, as it benefits all platforms (including the web), and then some (no license management or sync configuration, and simple sharing). So that's why we've gone in this direction, and why it's where our focus is currently. I'm sorry that isn't the answer you were hoping for, but I hope it helps put things in perspective.

  • @brenty
    I get it that a lot of companies asked for you guys to create your new subscription service, the 1Password.com, it's a matter of priorities.

    But a lot of users who bought 1Password before you guys introduce the new subscription service do not want to change for the new service for several reasons.

    I don't want to be rude, but it does put things in perspective, it seems that you guys has a greater focus on the new 1Password.com subscription service.

    We just want the multiple vaults feature for users that don't use the subscription service, and i remember that some time ago, you guys sad that when the multiple vaults for the subscription was built, the foundations for multiple vaults for local vaults was ready, so why until today, you guys didn't released yet ?

    This is the most requested feature for local users who didn't adopt the new subscription service.

    So what is your excuse ?

    Again, i don't want to be rude, we just want to know when are you guys going to release this feature

    Thanks

  • periperi

    Team Member

    I certainly understand your point of view, Stefan, but I hope that people buy 1Password because of the features that it has already, rather than the features they'd like to see in the future.

    With our hosted service, we have a lot more flexibility with what we're able to do. I encourage you to sign up for a free trial to test it out and see for yourself. :)

  • @peri
    I get it that with your new subscription service you have more flexibility, but I'm not interested in signing up for the subscription service

    But, i think I can say for everyone here who uses 1Password for Android, that our patience is coming to a end, as I sad before, a lot of users who uses 1Password uses like me with multiple vaults for several things.

    In 1Password on my mac that have the feature showing all my vaults I use a lot, to quickly switch to a specific to a vault.

    But when I try to use in Android, that doesn't have the multiple vaults for local users implemented yet, it discourages me to use 1Password for Android.

    And please stop suggesting your local users to change for your new subscription service, because it already have the multiple vaults feature implemented and fully functional.

    As I sad before, we don't want to become a user of your new subscription service, we just want the multiple vaults feature

    Best Regards

    Stefano

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @stefanodottori: I understand, but you didn't pay for multiple local vaults in 1Password for Android, as it has never had that feature. We'll continue to make more improvements and adding additional features over time, and perhaps this will be one of them, but when you purchase a product, that's the product you get. Buying something with the expectation that it will change the way you want it to in the future is, unfortunately, a recipe for disappointment, so we sell 1Password based on its merits and not promises of future features. I don't think it's reasonable to do otherwise. That's why when you ask for multiple vault support for local vaults in 1Password for Android, we offer an alternative that you can use — 1Password.com. I know it isn't what you're asking for, but it would be kind of silly to pretend that we don't have another solution that would work for you now. Whether or not you choose to use it is up to you.

  • @brenty
    I understand your point, then explain something to me, how the system of suggesting new features works?

    Because we are suggesting this feature since 1Password was lauched for Android

    I chose to stay with 1Password but with local vaults.

    I guess, we need to wait to see the feature of multiple vaults with local vaults implemented in 1Passoword on Android

    I'm not in a hurry to see this feature implemented

  • periperi

    Team Member

    @stefanodottori There are several factors that we take into account with regards to implementing new features. dteare goes into some detail about that in his comment from earlier in this thread.

    Out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you're hesitant to try out 1password.com?

  • @peri

    I just don't want to try 1Password.com because, I already have all pro features in 1Password, and the only feature that is missing for me in the 1Password ecosystem in multiple vaults in 1Password on Android

    I don't want to pay a subscription service just to have multiple vaults in android.

    Also I like to know what is going to change if I make the transition to the 1Password subscription service?

    Can I keep my master password for my primary vault in the transition or I need to change it ?

    These are my reasons and questions to see if it worth it to change to 1Password subscription service

  • periperi

    Team Member

    Thanks! You can indeed keep your Primary vault with its own Master Password. The account is a separate service, so it will have its own Master Password and Account Key. As to what else changes, you can find some info about that here:
    https://support.1password.com/why-account/

    The subscription covers all apps and major upgrades, so you never have to worry about installing on a new platform or buying an upgrade. Also, we sync your data for you, so you never have to worry about that either. You can access your data from a browser if you're ever without a device with 1Password installed. And you can easily create and manage multiple vaults. Give it a try if you're feeling adventurous! :lol:

  • I have a second vault to keep my work passwords separate from my personal. I don't want to commingle them, for several reasons. Having them trapped on my laptop, when I sometimes need to access work-related services from my phone, is a major inconvenience. Our company offers a competing product to employees for business and personal use. I was hoping to avoid having two password managers, but I may have to go that way as a workaround. I've been a big fan of 1Password, but I'll use this as a chance to audition the other product as a possible replacement for 1Pass.

  • periperi

    Team Member

    Hi @tcgerhard. Just to clarify, with 1Password accounts, you can add multiple accounts and vaults to the client apps, but they remain separate. That is your Personal vault is still personal and only accessible to you, and items in your vaults don't sync between vaults. You choose which vault to add an item to, and then it's only available there unless you move or copy it elsewhere.

    You can find more info here: https://support.1password.com/all-vaults/

  • I discovered this deficiency in the Android app today. Why is this feature still not available after years of excuses? Come on, this is just embarrassing for AgileBits at this point. Are you a software development company or not? Get it done. Thank you.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2017

    @gansos: Yep, we're a software company, and I don't think anyone's making excuses. As always, any new feature requires development and testing resources, so doing this would mean not doing something else. We prioritize what we work on by what will do the most good for the greatest number of people. That's not embarrassing; that's rational. And as Peri pointed out, 1Password for Android does have multiple vaults, just not for legacy formats, only 1Password accounts. For every feature you want, there are thousands of others out there with requests of their own. I know that feels bad when it means you don't get everything you want, but you've been able to benefit from other features we've added and improvements we've made over time, and will continue to do so.

  • edited April 2017

    Yikes I left iOS thinking the Android App was just as complete but I work with a team which has multiple offline (what you call legacy vaults) this is bad news, and surprising the Android app is this far behind the iOS app.

    Same goes for Windows you can switch between vaults without having to renter the vault master pass each time on MacOs but not Windows...just seems the development teams are going 2 different directions in regards to the user experience.

    So if you are never going to implement the multiple vault feature (I say never because it's been request for 2 years now) could you just state that instead of saying we have many requests but seeing that is likely at the top of "the list" for Android users I am not sure that your (Agilebits) answers assist anyone at this point they seem to be more defensive than reassuring the feature will ever see the light of day.

    I for one can tell you the only reason I chose OnePassword was the offline vaults if this is the direction your are going by forcing users to the (pay us monthly platform) I will go back to my offline app that also supported Dropbox with a few less features.

    We understand you have to make $ to thrive but charging $9.99 for the Android version should more than suffice for allowing multiple vault files to be linked I mean it has to be somewhat trivial to allow a user to select another vault file enter the password for the vault and show it in the application, you've done it once already just replicate it.

  • periperi

    Team Member
    edited April 2017

    Hi @dynamiclynk. 1Password 6 for Android supports multiple vaults when using 1Password accounts. You mentioned that it seems like development is going in different directions. In fact, 1Password accounts are a step in the same direction.

    1Password has historically been developed natively on each platform (it still is) but 1Password accounts are a way to unify development. 1Password 6 for Windows is more similar to what you mentioned seeing in Mac, where the app unlocks with a single Master Password, and all of your secondary vaults and added accounts can be accessed without reentering their individual Master Passwords. The same goes for Android when using accounts.

    I'm sorry if you purchased the Pro features thinking that they covered multiple local vaults. If that's the case, please email us at [email protected] and we'll be happy to see if it's within the refund period.

    That said, we can't make any promises one way or the other at the moment, which is why we haven't made a definitive statement. When we have news, we'll be sure to post here.

    Let me know if you have any other questions!

  • AxelAxel Junior Member
    edited April 2017

    "I understand, but you didn't pay for multiple local vaults in 1Password for Android, as it has never had that feature. We'll continue to make more improvements and adding additional features over time, and perhaps this will be one of them, but when you purchase a product, that's the product you get."

    In fact this was an expected feature very early in the Android app, with a claimed "near future" timeline in 2014: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/26425/multiple-vault-support

    Its hard to imagine users interpreting an official response that "its on our roadmap" as anything other than an indication you planned to to at least attempt to deliver this feature. Since that comment predates both the hosted service and OPVault, its equally difficult to imagine users could be expected to interpret that as a reference to a future hosted service or another storage format. It was a discussion about .agilekeychain.

    There may certainly be valid business reasons you haven't delivered, but asserting users can't expect future features based on comments from your company on your own forums seems a bit far. More to the point, why would I choose to purchase your subscription product if your own comments on your roadmap aren't reliable indications of future plans or priorities?

  • AxelAxel Junior Member

    Seems like I need to touch the thread to get it to update its date? Index page is showing I posted on March 11?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @Axel: My last post was March 11th, and it may be that I'd merged something here at that time. I really don't remember, but there are some known quirks with the forum software that can mess up like that. Sorry about the confusion there! It's totally gets me too sometimes.

    We have a lot of features that are requested over time, and we can't do all of them either in the time frame that anyone would like, or at all in some cases. Often, we'll start work on something only to find that there are other things which are blockers for one reason or another, or there are showstoppers that prevent us from shipping publicly. Sometimes this means a delay. Other times this means we have to kill it completely. This isn't specific to multiple local vaults, but rather an illustration of why something won't necessarily work out as expected — either by you, by us, or both. All of this is part of our "roadmap", but that always changes as needed.

    I can't say for certain, but because of the time frame, it's entirely possible that at least part of the reason was 1Password.com, as we did spend about two years working on that prior to release. However, knowing 1Password for Android in particular, I think it's fairer to say that the focus shifted to building version 6 of the app, which was a huge redesign with some other highly requested major features. That alone took us longer than we (and users) wanted, and doing multiple vault support at the same time would have made it take much, much longer.

    So you're right: we shouldn't have ever said anything on the subject. It sucks when our comments are misconstrued as promising a feature before it's even been built, as even after we've done so it still might not see a public release if there are serious issues. But it sucks equally for us to ignore people's questions completely. Vaults are no joke. They're the core of 1Password, where we store our most important data. Devoting the commensurate development and testing resources to a feature like this is paramount, so unless we're able to fully focus on that at some point, it won't happen.

  • AxelAxel Junior Member

    @brenty

    So you're right: we shouldn't have ever said anything on the subject.

    Given that ship has sailed, I actually think you should say something at this point, even if its just a clear recognition that this feature will never be a part of the product. We seem to agree that in 2014 there was at least some reasonable expectation that users believed this feature was coming. An update on its position on the roadmap, even if disappointing, is due almost 3 years later.

    Variations of the multiple vaults question have run on this forum for years, and the helpful "we'll tally your vote!" responses each thread ends with at this point begin to ring hollow. As a periodic observer it seems clear that the existing level of votes and interest simply don't rise to the necessary level to get development time. Yet even in @peri's April 6 response we don't get a "definitive statement".

    Users understand that development priorities change, but if this is no longer a part of your roadmap and not a feature into which development time will be spent under current plans, then it needs to be made more clear with a "no plans at this time" type response.

    A clean break from the prior plan is fine, if cloud is the preferred way forward tell us that and be done with it.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @Axel: It's not something we're working on right now, and like I said,

    unless we're able to fully focus on that at some point, it won't happen.

    It sounds like you want me to either promise you we won't ever do this, or promise you that we will. I can't do that. There are much more frequently requested features than this, and frankly things that we're already working on that must be finished before we re-evaluate. As I said previously, our focus right now is 1Password.com. I'm sorry I can't give you the kind of definitive answer you want. I don't know the future. None of us do.

  • AxelAxel Junior Member

    @brenty

    It's not something we're working on right now

    I agree that's been clear from your actions, but not consistently your company's words. For example, this month, in this thread a user (@dynamiclynk) asked for a clarification of the priority of this feature and got this partial official response:

    That said, we can't make any promises one way or the other at the moment, which is why we haven't made a definitive statement. When we have news, we'll be sure to post here.

    This is a variation of the "no comment but we're listening" message we've heard from years, and is clearly in conflict with your own explanation of priorities:

    There are much more frequently requested features than this

    Which indicates a low priority request for you and certainly shouldn't have been mentioned as a "near future" feature in 2014. Certainly it doesn't seem to be a "near future" item now.

    Had I known that years ago I would have made other plans. @dynamiclynk makes it clear he has similar concerns for his recent migration.

    It sounds like you want me to either promise you we won't ever do this, or promise you that we will. I can't do that.

    This is a false dichotomy. I'm asking, concretely, is this feature at or near the top of the priority list for the Android client? If so, have any engineering resources been placed on the roadmap to accomplish this goal? Have 3 years of votes and comments had any serious impact on its likelihood of implementation?

    Note that I'm not asking you to commit to a timeline. I'm also not asking you to never change your plans. I'm asking you to comment on whether this is still seen as a priority (as it was in 2014).

    I suspect the simple answer to all three questions is "no".

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @Axel: A lot has changed since 2014, so our plans have absolutely changed as well in the past 3 years. It seems like that goes without saying, but just to illustrate, at that time, anyone using multiple vaults in any capacity — including us — would need this feature to use those on Android. So it was a higher priority then, even if there was other more pressing work we needed to do. I'm not going to offer specifics on our priority list for features, as that's subject to change and I'd prefer not to have anything I say now on that topic tossed back at me in the future. But like I said, right now this isn't something we're working on. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you.

  • What has been so frustrating is that this discussion is not asking for a "new" feature. This feature is available on another mobile app, iOS, but for an unknown reason it is not available on Android.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited May 2017

    @tshafer: I understand what you're getting at, but the reality is that if it wasn't a new feature, you wouldn't have to ask for it, and it wouldn't be necessary to develop and test it in order to bring it into existence. We simply can't reuse the code from the iOS/macOS versions on Android, and non-native ported apps just aren't as good an experience. Present company excluded, there just aren't many people who have an interest in this feature, so it's not something we're going to prioritize when there's plenty of other opportunities for improvement that will benefit more users.

    It sounds like what you're getting at is that 1Password should be the same experience across all platforms. We agree. That's why 1Password.com exists, because nowadays people expect to be able to use 1Password everywhere without having to manage licenses and sync configurations. But the existing apps (for the most part) weren't originally built with that in mind; they were developed in a world where people purchased individual licenses. We're able to offer a more consistent experience (and this will be improved even further with each release) with 1Password.com as the centerpiece. That's why it was "easy" for us to support multiple vaults for 1Password.com accounts from the outset.

    The standalone version of 1Password and local vaults have many other limitations which we've been able to overcome with 1Password.com, so multiple vaults is just the tip of the iceberg. If you paid for a version of 1Password for Android which supports a single vault, that's what you got. Conversely, those who are paying for a 1Password.com membership get the features associated with that, and multiple vaults is one of them. You just can't have it both ways. I'm sorry that's not what you want to hear, but that's the way things are.

  • I been using 1Password since it first came out in 2006. I been on a primarily Mac eco system. I purchased the Mac OS as well as the iOS versions (before it went free + in-app purchases). I also use an Android for development purposes but only recently activated 1Password on it.

    I was so accustomed to the iOS and Mac OS versions supporting multiple vaults, I spent 10 minutes trying to figure out what menu action under the hamburger icon would enable this. I assumed it must have been hidden since I paid for the pro features on Android.

    I finally gave up and decided to Google search it only to find the request for multiple vaults has not been supported for years and largely ignored.

    You have to understand why I am confused. From a product positioning perspective this is so inconsistent. Why are multiple vaults supported on the iOS version and not the Android? I would suggest to please communicate with no ambiguity. State clearly "we won't be supporting multiple vaults" or do it. But don't obfuscate the issue with a subscription model (which AFAIK even going with "Families") won't fix this right?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    You have to understand why I am confused. From a product positioning perspective this is so inconsistent.

    @danchoe: I totally understand why you're confused about this. I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes lose track of which features we have where. This is something we're working to rectify, but it isn't a quick fix as we can't make some platforms stand still while we catch up on others. We just need to keep working harder.

    Why are multiple vaults supported on the iOS version and not the Android?

    iOS and macOS are both Apple platforms built on Objective C code, and we can and do share code between versions as much as possible. 1Password for Mac has been around for over a decade, so, apart from UI, 1Password for iOS has the benefit of being able to get a lot of features from the Mac version. And this just isn't possible between any other platforms, like Windows and Android.

    I would suggest to please communicate with no ambiguity. State clearly "we won't be supporting multiple vaults" or do it.

    As I said earlier,

    It's not something we're working on right now, [...] unless we're able to fully focus on that at some point, it won't happen.

    Can I promise you that 1Password for Android will never support multiple local vaults? No. But we're very much focused on 1Password.com and building other features (Google's new filling APIs are a big one) currently.

    But don't obfuscate the issue with a subscription model (which AFAIK even going with "Families") won't fix this right?

    All 1Password.com accounts — 1Password Families, Teams, individual plans — support multiple vaults. Since they're centrally hosted, vaults are handled on the server side (for example, we're only just beginning to put things in place so that the apps can create new vaults, so that it doesn't have to all be done on the site). If you'd like to try that out, that's something that can work for you today. Just shoot us an email at [email protected] and post your Support ID here. We'll be happy to help you make that transition.

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