"Go & Fill Login" change

rnb2rnb2 Junior Member
edited December 1969 in 1Password 3 – 6 for Mac
Any chance of a preference to put "Go & Fill Login" back the way it was before 3.0.5? I used it all the time, and the fact that it doesn't work at all if 1P is locked is a step backward for my usage. Having to do the unlock first, then mouse back up to the button to "Go & Fill Login" is an extra step I'd like to get rid of, if possible.
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Comments

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited December 1969
    rnb2 wrote:
    Any chance of a preference to put "Go & Fill Login" back the way it was before 3.0.5? I used it all the time, and the fact that it doesn't work at all if 1P is locked is a step backward for my usage. Having to do the unlock first, then mouse back up to the button to "Go & Fill Login" is an extra step I'd like to get rid of, if possible.


    I'm sorry you don't like the new approach. We wanted to be consistent with the Go&Fill Search window which requires 1Password to be unlocked first before the window will appear. We also wanted to put a small barrier between non-technical snoopers who may be looking at all your Logins while you are away from your machine.

    I think the best way to reduce the number of steps is to use the Go&Fill keyboard shortcut. You will need your fingers on the keyboard to type your password anyway, so you might as well type ⌘⌥\ while your fingers are there :)
  • invalidptrinvalidptr Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    I'm with rnb2. +1

    You've just killed the usefulness of "1P->Go & Fill In". My preference is to have it usually locked. This mean 1P->Go & Fill In->"what I want" is now worthless. Using ⌘⌥\ means I will never need the menu. Although I loath to remember another keyboard combination.

    If I do "1P->Unlock Password" then I have to do the menu-click drag again to get what I want. You've doubled the time needed to expend to use the product.

    Please, let me turn this off.
  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited December 1969
    invalidptr wrote:
    You've just killed the usefulness of "1P->Go & Fill In".


    Thanks for casting your vote! But I'm not sure why the ⌘⌥\ keyboard shortcut is not preferred to this? You get a quicker search and it's more natural as it makes sense to enter your password before being able to see the available entires.
  • AnthonyAnthony Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    The option still exists if you manually navigate to a page and right click the login field. Not sure if this was an oversight or not. Personally, I would prefer if all 1password menus and options were disabled when the app is locked.
  • invalidptrinvalidptr Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Anthony, not sure why what you mean with "right click the login field". If 1Password is locked my right-click 1Password menu is the same as the "1P" in the status bar.

    Dave, I do not use this product to protect what people can see on my machine. I'm using this product to get away from having just a handful of passwords for the hundreds of web sites I visit.

    Dave, this change has doubled my effort required to use 1Password. That doesn't make me happy. Also, my keyboard doesn't have ⌥ printed on it and for whatever reason I haven't committed brain cells to remembering it further adding to my frustration. And your comment about it being a quicker search - they why not just delete it entirely from the menu? A crass question to be sure but I hope it points out how confusing the UX is becoming.
  • AnthonyAnthony Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Go to a website that you have stored in 1Password. Right click the login field and you'll see at the bottom of the menu that pops up:

    1Password-->Fill and Submit titlename
    1Password-->Other Logins-->titlename

    These show whether the app is locked or not.
  • KeithKeith Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Dave, I work a lot on software usability and I always find it strange when developers have thought long and hard about a potential problem they then force a hard-coded behaviour change on their UI rather than provide a user preference. Why not let the users decide whether their usage environment means they need to protect the Go & Fill in menu from casual snoopers?

    I work from home and the dog can't type, so I'd prefer the old behaviour. When I'm on client site, I always lock my Mac when away from it. So, the new behaviour solves a problem I don't face and meanwhile creates two new ones for me: 1) inconvenience and 2) Insecurity - I have to keep 1Password unlocked (and hence far more vulnerable) to regain the convenience of this menu.

    IMHO From many years' experience of applying the three 'I's to software, nice intent + limited interpretation = poor implementation. This use case needs to be reframed into a broader context.
  • KeithKeith Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Thinking more about the intent behind this change and the posts from people who use this menu as a bookmarking system and/or prefer mouse to keyboard, how about making this locking feature a feature at folder/smart folder level. That way, users can have some 'low-risk' sites available without unlocking 1Password, whilst others (where even the location is sensitive information) remain invisible until 1Password is unlocked. A best of both worlds solution?
  • JeffJeff Member
    edited December 1969
    I must concur - I found the old method very useful, and this change, while I appreciate the additional security, adds complexity. I add a vote to make this a user-definable choice. After all, why not?
  • edited December 1969
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited December 1969
    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    I hate adding preferences for every situation but perhaps we can add a hidden preference in this case. I'll kick it around with the team and see.
  • rnb2rnb2 Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Dave - it appears that the new beta does add the hidden preference. Thanks!

    Could you quickly spell out how to access it? I know it's a "defaults write....." thing, but an exact string for turning it on would be very helpful.

    Thanks again!

    Rick
  • jxpx777jxpx777 Code Wrangler 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    In Terminal:
    defaults write ws.agile.1Password AlwaysShowBrowserGoAndFillMenu 1
    

    I have suggested that the default behavior be changed back to pre-3.0.5 and that the hidden preference be available for users who are passionate about it, but we are still discussing it. :)
  • charlie98charlie98 Member
    edited December 1969
    dteare wrote:
    We wanted to be consistent with the Go&Fill Search window which requires 1Password to be unlocked first before the window will appear. We also wanted to put a small barrier between non-technical snoopers who may be looking at all your Logins while you are away from your machine.

    I think the best way to reduce the number of steps is to use the Go&Fill keyboard shortcut. You will need your fingers on the keyboard to type your password anyway, so you might as well type ⌘⌥\ while your fingers are there :)

    My requirements are simple. I expect that when I unlock the 1PW3 application that all my browsers will now have access to all 1PW3 functions without me having to enter the master password within each browser. period. End of Story.

    What do I get?
      enter master password to unlock the 1PW3 application

      go to Safari - go and fill login - enter master password
    again
      with Safari open go to Chrome and if I go and fill login it's enter master password
    again
      and so on for every browser (I typically use 4) and it's always enter master password
    again

    Let me reiterate:
    when I enter the master password, be it from a browser or the 1PW3 application, my expectation is that 1PW3 is now available to all applicable applications without ever having to re-enter the master password again until I either close 1PW3 or 1PW3 is otherwise locked by sleep mode or equivalent.
  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    charlie98 wrote:
    My requirements are simple. I expect that when I unlock the 1PW3 application that all my browsers will now have access to all 1PW3 functions without me having to enter the master password within each browser. period. End of Story.


    Charlie98, I hope you won't mind my suggesting something you may have done already, but you might want to make sure both the Disable automatic unlock for 1Password and Disable automatic unlock for all applications options are disabled (UNchecked) on the Security tab of 1Password preferences.

    As I understand it, that should allow you to enter your master password only once (not counting your Auto-Lock settings, of course) and have it apply to 1Password and all your browser extensions, which sounds like what you're wanting.
  • charlie98charlie98 Member
    edited February 2010
    DBrown wrote:
    Charlie98, I hope you won't mind my suggesting something you may have done already, but you might want to make sure both the Disable automatic unlock for 1Password and Disable automatic unlock for all applications options are disabled (UNchecked) on the Security tab of 1Password preferences.

    Thank you for your reply and I certainly have no objections to suggestions. The picture you see below is from my current settings, I am using Version 3.0.5 (build 30507)

    1PW3_prefs.png
  • JHPJHP Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    I agree; please switch back to prior behavior or make a Preference. I do not want to have to unlock 1PW to see the Go and Fill Login menu.
  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    That's interesting, Charlie98. Except for the number of minutes, my Security tab is set up the same as yours.

    In my experiment in Firefox 3.6, just now, with the 1Password application unlocked:
    • Even when the Go & Fill Login menu was empty, selecting Search and typing still showed my Login items without my having to enter my master password in the browser.
    • As soon as I had used the G&FL > Search feature even once (even though I cancelled out of the Search HUD), the G&FL menu was fully populated, still without my having to enter my master password in the browser.
    • As long as I didn't fully quit Firefox (and the auto-lock settings didn't kick in), the G&F menu stayed fully populated.

    Is the difference that I'm running the 1Password application, too (and not just the browser extensions)?
  • charlie98charlie98 Member
    edited December 1969
    I started my day by booting my machine and then opening the 1PW3 application. I then started Safari, went to go and fill login and was asked for the master password. I then went to WebKit, did the same thing, and was again asked for the password. That was 3 times. I stopped Safari and reopened, still asked for master password again. I then stopped Safari, waited for a while and tried a 3rd time. This time I was not asked for the password. Something not repeatable is a pain to discover.
  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited December 1969
    charlie98 wrote:
    I started my day by booting my machine and then opening the 1PW3 application. I then started Safari, went to go and fill login and was asked for the master password. I then went to WebKit, did the same thing, and was again asked for the password. That was 3 times. I stopped Safari and reopened, still asked for master password again. I then stopped Safari, waited for a while and tried a 3rd time. This time I was not asked for the password. Something not repeatable is a pain to discover.


    It sounds like your 1PasswordAgent was not started. Next time you reboot open Activity Monitor and see if the 1PasswordAgent process is there. If not, open 1Password and select Help > Troubleshooting > Reset Folder Permissions; that fixes most of the issues related to the agent.
  • charlie98charlie98 Member
    edited December 1969
    dteare wrote:
    It sounds like your 1PasswordAgent was not started. Next time you reboot open Activity Monitor and see if the 1PasswordAgent process is there. If not, open 1Password and select Help > Troubleshooting > Reset Folder Permissions; that fixes most of the issues related to the agent.

    I restarted,
    looked in ActivityMonitor, 1PasswordAgent was there,
    Started 1PW3 and unlocked,
    started Safari, go and fill login, search and all entries were there.
    Closed safari,
    opened webkit, go and fill login, wants password.

    tried several other browsers, Camino and Firefox both worked, Chrome wanted a password
  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited December 1969
    charlie98 wrote:
    opened webkit, go and fill login, wants password.

    tried several other browsers, Camino and Firefox both worked, Chrome wanted a password


    The fact that things work in Camino and Firefox show that the 1PasswordAgent is indeed functioning properly.

    Chrome wanting the password is no surprise as that code is still under active development but I'm surprised to see you mention WebKit. It looks like something changed as I just downloaded the latest version of WebKit and am experiencing the same issue. I will see if I can fix this when I fix the Chrome unlocking issue.

    Thanks for the detailed report!
  • BombippyBombippy Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    I upgraded to version 3.0.7 and I thought Go & Fill was broken in Safari. I was going to report it as a bug when I came across the forums here.

    Go & Fill is one of the most useful features (or was) in 1Password. It saves a lot of time for web developers like me. Please give us the option to use Go & Fill the way it used to work and let your users know about major changes to the software!

    You guys rock. Your software is awesome. Thanks for listening to your users feedback.
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot Community Moderator
    edited December 1969
    Bombippy

    See posts 13 and 14 and see if this helps you

    http://support.agilewebsolutions.com/showthread.php?22280-Go-Fill-Login-change&p=112004#post112004 Its this thread post 13 and 14
  • Jeff2030Jeff2030 Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    I thought Safari or I was off too, until I saw this post. Can I just uninstall 1 Password and go back to a previous version until this gets ironed out. The Go/Fill used to be really good. Now it's just more steps.
  • camnercamner Member
    edited December 1969
    OK, I'd like to add my $.02 worth to those wishing for the old 1P behavior. Changing an integral part of the UI on folks without the ability to allow for old behavior is often a poor idea. Folks get used to using software in a certain way, and then bam! an "improvement" comes along that forces people to use the product differently. It may be that we SHOULD be using 1P differently than it was originally set up to be used, but many of us aren't. This particular change may make 1P more secure, but it makes it more difficult to use.

    I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to highlight more obviously significant changes in the UI. Why should I have to come to the forums to figure out that when 1P doesn't work the way I've come to expect it to, it isn't a bug but a "feature" that was only announced in the middle of a long list of other changes, most of which are very small?

    Sorry to be grouchy. 1P is a great product. It just took a step backward in ease of use, ostensibly for my benefit. Now if I want ease of use, I can only get it by taking the security even farther back.
  • jxpx777jxpx777 Code Wrangler 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    If you weren't aware, you can set a hidden preference to bring back the old way:

    defaults write ws.agile.1Password AlwaysShowBrowserGoAndFillMenu 1
    


    I've argued pretty strongly that changing the default behavior out from under users is bad form, and Dave has challenged me to change his mind about this over beer at NSConference, so when I get there tomorrow, that is what I'll be working on. :) (Dave really means scotch, but he didn't know. :-P)
  • camnercamner Member
    edited December 1969
    @Jamie,

    Thanks for the tip about the hidden preference. I noticed that as I looked for more forum topics. I think that in retrospect, what made me the most grouchy was that although I read the changes list (at least cursorily), I didn't get the import of what I was reading, so I installed 3.0.7, had things change, wondered what was going on, figured it was a bug, started looking in the forum, didn't immediately see what I was looking for, started a post, looked more, kept looking, finally got it that no, it wasn't a bug as I originally thought, and then finally said to myself "What a lot of work I've done to figure out that 1P is working just as it is expected to, but no longer as I was expecting."

    Anyway, I got over it, changed the hidden preference to go back to the status quo ante, and haven't given it another negative thought since.

    Thanks for your responsiveness!
  • Leading GeekLeading Geek Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Just to add another voice: This is the ONE thing I don't like about your insanely great product. Please, please could you make the change optional with a preferences setting (yes, I know about the hidden preference - thanks).

    Andrew
  • nielsanielsa Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    For returning the action of "Go & Fill Login" to the previous version, or creating an "unhidden" preference to do so. I did activate the hidden preference, so I'm back to business with the application, but it was an unnecessary use of my time to have to search out the resolution.
    Seems to me like this falls into the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.
    But thanks for taking the issue seriously and providing a workaround.
    Niels
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