1Password 6 versus 1Password 4
Comments
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@MikeT , you state .
"The goal is to get it stable and useful enough for our 1Password Families/Teams customers, which is why full support for the local vaults will not be implemented until later this year."
There are other users out there not in a Team and with no Family that do NOT want to pay $5 a month for a password program and your company is neglecting them. 1Password 4 for windows is crap. You have no plan to develop it. The UWP app is basic and still with no save feature. 1Password 4 for windows on high res screen is unworkable unless you have x2 magnification or more spectacles.
I have patiently waited 7 months and there has been next to no change in the functionality of the UWP or the desktop program. I can only assume you are directing resources to apple OS and android as I hear they are mature fully functioning programs.
I am loathed to go back to LastPass as change in owner but now looking at Enpass.
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@teal_oak, @Bernfrin: Wow, guys. Constructive criticism is one thing, but this is quite another. I'll thank you to keep it civil. And before you stop me, yes, hijacking someone else's extension feature request thread for your own purposes is not cool. :(
Just to clear the air, we totally don't have sleeper-cell Windows developers hiding out in our Mac, iOS, or Android teams. Our Windows team, now that we've merged things to avoid duplication of effort, is working together daily to improve 1Password 6. The UWP version lags behind because frankly everyone running Windows 7 and up can benefit from the desktop beta, whereas UWP is limited to Windows 10. This is what people asked for, after all. But UWP definitely isn't 7 months behind the desktop beta. It's more like a week or so, and that will be remedied in time, once things aren't moving so quickly.
And regarding 1Password 6, we don't sell licenses for it. No one is forced to use it, but a lot of people have asked for it! And while we've made a lot of progress there, it isn't in a finished state yet. You knew that when you installed it. I don't recall all the specifics, but many people — present company included — demanded loudly that we get a Windows desktop beta out there for folks who want to use 1Password Families/Teams on Windows 7 and 8.1, since previously we only had an option for Windows 10 users. You can't have it both ways, complaining that we haven't released it and then again that we have. If there are specific improvements you'd like to see in 1Password 6, by all means let us know, whether it be bug reports, feature requests, or tweaks to the UI. We're listening. But these forums are for everyone, not a personal internet soapbox. There isn't anything actionable in your comments that we can use to improve 1Password for you or anyone else. I think it's important to keep that in perspective.
Regarding 1Password 4, It may not be your cup of tea, but it isn't outdated. It works the same way today that it always did (with the addition of improvements made since its release), and a license for it only needs to be purchased to remove the trial restrictions for those who appreciate its utility. I myself am in that camp. 1Password 4 isn't flashy, but I've absolutely gotten my money's worth since I bought the upgrade in 2014. Like any other purchase though, everyone has to make the same determination for themselves as to whether or not it's worth it to them to buy. If you paid for it like I did, it still does its job. If you didn't, then there's no need to pay for a license for an app you don't find value in.
Now, oddly enough, I'm using 1Password 4 on a Surface and retina Mac, and I haven't (yet?) had to break out the bifocals to use it. Now, being that it isn't high DPI aware, it ain't winning any beauty pageants, but it's totally legible and usable. So I wonder if there's some display setting that may account for the differences in our experiences.
You're both so passionate and probably have some really great insight and suggestions to share, so let's try that approach instead. Otherwise it just sounds like you don't even want 1Password to get better, only to complain, and I can't imagine that to be the case — or you wouldn't spend your valuable time on something you don't care about! :blush:
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Hi @brenty,
You stated on the 8th of June and I quote:brenty
AgileBits Team Member
June 8
@teal_oak: Thanks for reaching out. I'm really sorry for the confusion here. 1Password 6 for Windows is a new app built from the ground up to support 1Password Families (and Teams) on Windows 7, 8.1, and 10.
The good news is that if you're not interested in a 1Password Families subscription because you're not looking to share data securely with your loved ones, then the best option for you is clear: 1Password for Windows version 4.One of the points I was trying to make is that you are focusing on Teams and Families to the detriment of the single user. I am making the assumption that 1password 4 will remain a legacy program with no further development and in particular an inability to:
1 pass a change in password to UWP for windows 10 and windows 10 mobile
2 change to entry type . (all mine are the same login after conversion from LastPass).I have a windows phone and NEED a password program which syncs with the desktop and it would be nice if I could add new entries and edit previous ones on the phone and sync the changes to the desktop . This has not happened in the 7 months I have been using 1password. I like the UWP program user interface and it is IMHO the best around but .....
At least the one way sync from 1password 4 to my phone via onedrive is back after 3 weeks of manually copying the opvault file to the phone. (Microsoft's fault I believe)
I hope you understand my frustration. It has not been a good week for me in the UK thanks to being outvoted by the Leave/BREXIT idiots.
Regards
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While I get where you guys are coming from, there are those of us that are willing to pay a monthly fee to keep our data hosted in the cloud instead of locally. Support for that simply does not exist in 1Password 4, so I for one, am happy that they are focusing on getting that experience a bit more polished as a matter of priority. If you want your data hosted locally, 1Password 4 works just fine and while it may not have kept up with the times, it's certainly usable until they get a chance to add local vault support to 1Password 6.
I definitely got the impression that AgileBits have had their strongest developers focused on Mac for too long and as a result the Windows side suffered. That seems to be changing though. You just have to be patient.
And let's be honest.... LastPass... lol
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Hi guys,
We do understand that from the view of the local vault customers, not much progress has been made in 1Password 6 Beta in many months or even a year or more for some, mainly because the app cannot modify nor create new data in the local vaults, where it can for the 1Password Families/Teams vaults.
The work going into 1Password 6 Beta benefit both local vaults and the 1Password Families/Teams services. For an example, the rebuilt details viewer will work for local vaults and the recently improved item editor can be reused for local vault as soon as we connect how the local data vaults work to these fields in the editor. The recent start to our extension support also works for the local vaults as well.
The only limitation for local vaults in 1Password 6 Beta is the ability to write to and to modify your local vault data, which requires more extensive code than what the Families/Team requires. To go into this further, there is only one consistent and continuously-updated data structure for Families/Teams customers and it is stored on our servers, which means the server handles a lot of the work for us that we don't have to add to the apps. For the local vaults, that's a different story, many different data format changes were released over time of almost a decade; opvault and agilekeychain had their own inner changes that all apps had to adopt which 1Password 6 Beta does not know about and cannot benefit from 1Password 4's code because it is in a different language. This is an ongoing progress, right now, we're in the middle of adding the ability to view certain formats of agilekeychain, which is mostly available already in the latest update.
Just to be clear, we are working on local vault support at all time, we are not choosing to wait until the first stable release is done. A lot of that work is under the hood, you cannot see nor benefit from it because it is meant to work out of the box for certain users for these formats.
After all, people who do want to consider moving to 1Password Families or Teams services, they need to migrate their current local vaults and on Windows, they cannot do this yet because 1Password 6 Beta doesn't support all formats yet. We have a priority to get this done correctly but it will take some time.
We could also choose to release 1Password 6 altogether with local vault support later this year as well instead of one in the summer and another later this year, it won't change the timing for the local vaults support. We've decided to split it and unfortunately, yes, we do understand this seems not fair and local vaults deserve the same respect but we don't have the resources to do all of this at the same time and have it done by now.
Also, it may seem like when we say local vaults, it is just one thing. It's not, it's two largely complex data formats (OPVault, AgileKeychain) with different encryption protocols that has gone through several years of iterations in various platforms that all apps needs to understand. Adding support to encrypt new data for local vaults is just as complex as developing two new apps (two separate formats). For Families/Teams services, it was built with this in mind, making it easy to adopt first with the server in the center helping us determine the differences.
@Bernfrin, I'm not sure if you saw a few other comments on the two separate teams, we did have two separate teams working on two separate programs but the one that was meant for 1Password 4 upgrade, didn't work out well for us. We've decided to scrap it and push forward on what ended up as 1Password 6 Beta right now. Yes, we are way behind because of this but we are doing everything as fast as we can without rushing the code to get it to a good state. Just to be clear, the other project started before the UWP app and it was a painful decision to scape it because it meant we lost a lot of time and we needed to rebuild it, luckily, we were able to benefit from the amazing work of UWP app and extend from that. Due to the way the new apps work as a database-first, it means local vaults has to be added afterward, not from the beginning.
A lot of development has occurred in the background that no one sees and sometime, we do mess up (we're humans) and we have to restart things to get it going in the right direction.
@teal_oak, the ability to convert types, there is no support for this in any versions of 1Password on any platforms and as I mentioned in the other thread, it is something we want to do in the future but it is not something we're going to do now. I'm sorry to hear about UK, I was also sadden to hear about it and I am myself afraid of an identical outcome for the upcoming US election.
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One of the points I was trying to make is that you are focusing on Teams and Families to the detriment of the single user. I am making the assumption that 1password 4 will remain a legacy program with no further development and in particular an inability to:
1 pass a change in password to UWP for windows 10 and windows 10 mobile
2 change to entry type . (all mine are the same login after conversion from LastPass).@teal_oak: I understand what you're saying, but it just doesn't reflect the reality: we haven't taken anything away from the "single user". I definitely appreciate that sometimes not getting something new/extra/etc. can feel like a loss, but it isn't. That's the point I was trying to make: 1Password 4 continues to work for everyone who uses it. We definitely want to fill out "local vault" support in 1Password 6, but there's already an app for that. So we're focused on building for 1Password Families/Teams first because without it there is no native 1Password Families/Teams on Windows.
1 pass a change in password to UWP for windows 10 and windows 10 mobile
2 change to entry type . (all mine are the same login after conversion from LastPass).You're right. I don't think we'll be adding either of those features to 1Password 4. But none of our apps support changing categories or syncing locally to Windows Phones, so I don't see how this these are good examples of leaving the "single user" behind. None of our users have this. You can, however, use Dropbox or OneDrive (finally!) to sync data between 1Password 4 and the UWP app on your Windows phone. You won't be able to edit local vault entries on your phone (yet), but you can on the PC.
At least the one way sync from 1password 4 to my phone via onedrive is back after 3 weeks of manually copying the opvault file to the phone. (Microsoft's fault I believe)
I hope you understand my frustration. It has not been a good week for me in the UK thanks to being outvoted by the Leave/BREXIT idiots.I think even under different circumstances it's understandable to be frustrated about these limitations: the UI in 1Password 4, and read-only in 1Password 6. It's not fun to be caught in the middle like that, but it's really helpful to know exactly what you're looking for! It sounds like getting full local vault support alone would make a big difference for you, and you really like the new UI. We don't hear either of these things a lot, but we certainly want to. My biggest concern earlier was that the concerns of you and others may get lost in the commotion. I'm glad to have a clearer sense of what's important to you, so I appreciate that you took the time to spell it out for me.
I know it seems like a "small" thing when put in those terms, given that it's only a "single feature", but I'm sure you can appreciate that we want to make sure we devote the necessary time and attention to developing and testing it. And right now we just don't have the bandwidth to do so.
That's absolutely not a position you want to be in, and neither is it something we're happy with. I know its not at all what you're looking for, but I hope you'll be patient while we get things in order. On the plus side, what is now a beta will be in a much more finished state when we fill out local vault support, so there will probably be less flux with the usability of the app. I know it's little consolation now, but we'll get there in time.
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"Constructive criticism is one thing, but this is quite another. I'll thank you to keep it civil". I am unsure what part of the comments that you found uncivil, but we/I was merely stating our/my opinion.
@Bernfrin: As I mentioned above, my worry is that the things that matter to you and any of our customers — and the reason you're here in the first place pouring your heart out in the first place — are necessarily overlooked when someone else's feedback thread is co-opted. This isn't just bad for the original poster and others participating in that discussion, as things get off track; it's also bad for anyone posting off-topic, or simply venting instead of providing clear feedback. Not only is it uncivil, but it detracts from the core message of what improvements are desired.
Please, please share your opinions with us, but do so in a constructive matter that helps us understand not only what you're asking for, but respects and benefits others as well. We want everyone to be heard.
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Any indicators on the timescale for the standalone pretty please- I've been a Mac customer for over 6 years and a very early adopter of 1Pass for Windows
...so I already have an entire hosted sync setup
I had to fight for Dropbox to be allowed in the corporate environment (and I'm the number two of the ICT dept!). And I've been doing that for so long I really have no wish to add another hosting scenario into something I use multiple times daily that already has multiple levels of function that I had sourced and pay for.Pretty please can we have some good news for the standalone 1Pass for windows 6?
I know Britain is going to the dogs with Brexit and the US is on the verge of voting itself into oblivion.
Come on Canada give us something to cheer us in these dark times0 -
@AUM3RLE: We don't have a release date to announce for local vault support in 1Password 6, but it's under development. I'm glad to hear that Dropbox and 1Password 4 have found an important place in your workflow. And while you probably don't want to hear "not yet", 1Password 6 will be an even better app for the time and effort it takes before the new app is ready for all Windows users. :)
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Considering all the love being put out by Dave, Sara and Roo for all the other products in the 1Pass family this one seems to have been conveniently forgotten- is he a bit ugly and simple and been pushed so far to the back he's gathering dust?
O I realise that Great Aunt Ethel has knitted a new Christmas jumper (4.6.1.617) but Rudolph seems to have the exact same number of legs as last year (23) and she still hasn't grasped that 1PWin4 has grown somewhat since he was XP.
You can't even reference the update on your own knowledgebase to the release notes - you are ignoring legacy customers or worse still early adopters and evangelists.Whilst I comprehend that there are various technical issues that make this task less than simple especially regarding the changes in vault technology - why was this change managed seamlessly on the Mac version but here seems to be presented as impossible?
There is No Beta release for 1Pass Windows 4? Why not there are obviously people willing to test the concepts- obviously it won't be 1PWin4 by the time it's out of the cocoon but you've got to have some way of on boarding the experience- or is there absolutely no cross route possible- have you fundamentally (and inadvertently) blocked transitioning within the code for 1PWin6 because you started with families and teams?
Then give us the ghost of 1PWin5- something that can cope with local vaults AND work on modern operating systems- we will take that and wait till 1Pwin7 to all climb back into the same boat; but maybe you should hurry cos you've got to 6.5 already!or are you just intent on pushing us to a subscription model that we don't want to partake in...
Shame- I thought Canadians had more integrity than that0 -
@AUM3RLE: Sorry for the confusion! The 1Password for Windows version 4 release notes (along with all of the other apps) can be found on our update site.
As for the Apples and oranges comparison, the current 1Password for Mac codebase is younger than 1Password for Windows and more flexible for that and a number of other reasons (Windows has seen much larger changes overall in that same time frame than macOS, name notwithstanding). While that was a big disadvantage when it came to getting 1Password.com support on Windows, the flipside is that 1Password for Windows is a mature app that doesn't require a lot of fixing, so we don't have a beta currently and updating it with a new Opera code signature really didn't need one either. 1Password 4 just isn't capable of supporting 1Password.com, and regardless we've had a lot of user requests (resolution independence, performance, etc.) that really required a clean slate anyway.
As I mentioned above, local vault support will be added to the new 1Password Windows desktop app once its ready, but in the mean time 1Password 4 still supports these (and a lot of other features the new app does not yet have) already. Given that you didn't pay for 1Password 6 and sound like you're not interested in the subscription service, I'd suggest you stick with 1Password 4 until we're able to roll out local vaults in the new app — and by that time it will probably have other features you'd be missing otherwise too. Cheers! :)
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I read through this thread and it seems local vault support would be available at end of 2016.
Any news about local vault support in 1password 6 ? It seems I can only use it with Team/Family...0 -
Hi, just to know if local vault support is still on hold ? Any news regarding this development ?
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@bl4ke: Nothing to share at this time. You may have noticed along with others that we still don't have browser integration with Edge, and have been working on Native Messaging for Chrome as well. That's really what's taking up most of our "cycles" right now, so local vaults isn't something we'd even have time to work on currently.
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Hi, it seems that I'm not the only one to be worried about your current developments and the fact that licenses for local storage are almost no more supported:
Can you comment on that ? If 1password becomes a "cloud storage" only solution, tells your customers ! So we can start looking for another solution...
Regards
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@brenty: It's true. But local vault is only available with an old windows version and no commitment for a future possible release of local vault in the new version 6 (as you stated above). And local vault on Android only works if you use the old format agilekeychain and not opvault...
So sure you can say you support local vault and your oldest customers, but it becomes really disappointing... and regarding multiple threads in your forum and the article I share above this feeling is shared by many people...0 -
@bl4ke: You're right of course, but I'm not sure how local vault support in 1Password 6 on Windows and Android would help if you're not going to sync them. And if you are, you can use 1Password 4 on Windows and Dropbox to sync an OPVault with 1Password for Android. We're not going to be able to support every configuration out there, and right now we're focused on 1Password.com with current development because we've already got apps that support local vaults across all platforms. I'm sorry I don't have anything new to tell you right now, but we've got a lot to do yet before we could change gears to work on something else.
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@brenty I couldn't help but read though this thread as part of research into your products before making a decision, but I am curious. I Like the idea personally of an offline vault with 1password 4, however I'm impartial to a new format if it's sync-only. you mentioned you can sync an OPVault with 1password for android with that. Where would I find the option to generate an OPVault for 1password 4 for syncing at? Also, does this work with WLAN server?
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@cellsheet: Thanks for reaching out! First and foremost, I want to be upfront that 1Password 4 licenses are no longer available. If you've already purchased it, you can continue to use it though, and we're always happy to help. Our focus is on 1Password.com memberships currently since that offers a better experience for new users. 1Password 4 can sync via WLAN server with 1Password for Android, but is an advanced feature as it depends heavily on the user's network environment. And especially on Windows that can be fraught. Definitely check out 1Password.com to get a sense of the features that are important to you (you can try it for free), and be sure to let me know if you have any questions. :)
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