Multiple vaults on Android.

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Comments

  • You make some valid points, BUT...

    I am a software developer as well as a software and product reviewer, so I have a very good frame of reference for a lot of my opinions. You can disagree with them, (as it seems you have every one of them actually) but that does not make you right either.

    As for renting software, I have plenty of experience in changing from purchase to rental, and none of them has been good. All of them have cost considerably more each year than the old buying and paying for upgrades, and almost all of them offered less support than before. So I have a solid frame of reference, and I do not appreciate your dismissal. As a software and products reviewer, I have probably seen and reviewed more software than most, and I also talk to a LOT of people about their preference in writing reviews. I would estimate about 2 to 1 do NOT like the rental style, but often have little choice.

    That does not mean you will not have satisfied customers. Clearly, some people don't care what they pay for software, or just have too much money. Look how well Adobe does charging a ridiculous monthly price for software that disappears the minute you stop subscribing. That does not work for me. I guess I'm just old school.

    As for my original comment on being self-serving, I agree with you, lying is not a good answer option. But when the option reads like an advertisement, that is nothing if not self-serving. My feedback here would be to find another way to answer without making it look like your just asking for more money. I'm sorry you can't see it that way.

    Yes, I am frustrated that I now cannot use what I used to think was one of the best pieces of software in the industry (and voted for it as such several times) without renting it from your company. In reviewing PC Magazine's top password managers, it appears that I an not alone here.

    As for continuing to use what I have, that option seems to be mostly gone too. Two of my Macs are now telling me they can't find my sync vault on Dropbox, even when it shows me my file in the right place and I select it. My iPad also is throwing occasional sync errors, and you know how I feel about the Android version. I will assume this is not intentional to push people to the rental software, but after your answer, I'm not so sure anymore.

    Thank you for taking the time to answer. Sadly, it only made things worse.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @MajorHavoc: I think you're conflating disagreement with dismissal. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm dismissing your opinions out of hand. I'm not. You're entitled to them, but you seem to be taking bad experiences you've had elsewhere and superimposing them here.

    Certainly some software, services, and companies may not give you the value you expect in one way or another. And frankly in that case I think it makes sense not to pay for them or use them. If you try it and find that applies to 1Password.com in your case, I have no disagreement with you there; I'd just be interested to hear specifically what we need to improve to make it as valuable to you as it is to others. We're not perfect and neither is 1Password, but we're committed to improving in any way we can.

    You seem to be applying other, unrelated negative experiences to us as though because 1) we offer a new way of using 1Password in addition to the one you're using and 2) you're having trouble with your setup. Let's be real: #1 doesn't change anything for you; and regarding #2, it seems unfair to fault us for not helping you resolve an issue when this is the first we've heard of it (as far as I can tell). While we don't have any control over 3rd party services in the first place, I do have plenty of experience with Dropbox myself (been using it for years and still do) and am happy to help. I'd encourage you to start a new discussion or shoot us an email at [email protected] with the details (the latter may be best since we'll probably need some diagnostic information though; just post the Support ID you receive here in that case). I'm sorry if you didn't bother to reach out about this already because of the assumption that our support is not available now that we have memberships as well. I hope you'll let me work with you on this if you're still having trouble.

    I also truly appreciate your feedback here, especially your point about it feeling bad to have us suggest a membership when you're asking for a new feature for the standalone version. I hope that you'll also understand though that it would be kind of silly for us to pretend that this other option — which could very well help you in this case — doesn't exist when it does. Ironically, I often hear from 1Password users who are upset because they did not know about 1Password.com, especially when it can make their lives easier — for example, with its built-in sync, which all but eliminates issues like you seem to be describing. That's the reason we built this after all: to offer a more seamless experience than we can when relying on 3rd parties. Nothing against Dropbox, but it just isn't designed with 1Password in mind. I think that makes sense, as their goal is to be a great general purpose file sync service, not a value-add for any one app. But it does mean that there's room for improvement for our use case with 1Password. And with our own service we can diagnose and fix sync issues on our end without being limited by the opacity of another company's product. For example, we still don't know why in some cases Dropbox reports no OPvault or AgileKeychain vaults when queried at times even when they are present. That just isn't something we have access to as we're wholly reliant on their APIs and the information they provide, yet it affects the experience of our customers. Not everyone who wants to know about 1Password.com does already, so I hope you'll forgive us for mentioning that it does. Whether or not you use it is still up to you though, so no harm done at least. :blush:

  • Can the Android app open a local vault and a vault stored on 1password.com? For example, if I have my own personal vault stored in Dropbox but have a shared work vaults on a 1password.com teams account?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @timbishop: Yep! You'll need to setup the app initially with the local vault. That will be the Primary, and its Master Password will be the one used to unlock. Then you can add the 1Password.com account as well. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

  • Thanks Tim. You may be correct, that there is some cross here between disagreement with dismissal. I will accept that. I think there is a lot of disappointment as well, as I personally do not like the idea of renting software. Something I just need to get over I guess.

    As for suggestions: There is a single membership, and a family membership, but not one for two people. Perhaps another membership in the middle?

    Thanks for letting me rant, and my apologies for being so angry about it. I will get over it I am sure.

  • EnerJiEnerJi

    @MajorHavoc:

    Keep in mind, the family plan is less than the cost of two separate individual plans, so it's already a pretty reasonable value even if you have just two users who need to use it.

    I believe there is a 30-day trial for 1password.com, so it might be worth trying out to see if you like it? I was once also a bit salty about the lack of multiple vaults on Android, but I've been converted by my 1Password.com experience. Good luck with whatever you decide.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2018

    I think there is a lot of disappointment as well, as I personally do not like the idea of renting software. Something I just need to get over I guess.

    @MajorHavoc: I hear you. It was a but of a rude awakening for me as well when I realized I don't "own" any software; a license is just that: a license to use it. It's so different from something we can truly own like a car or a house (which we can resell later, but of course we're also responsible for upkeep; not really anyone fixes the software they use themselves) but when my parents raised me with that kind of mindset it's hard not to try to apply that universally, even when it doesn't fit.

    As for suggestions: There is a single membership, and a family membership, but not one for two people. Perhaps another membership in the middle?

    That's probably not something we're going to do, as that would fall in a weird place (pricing-wise) between individual 1Password.com memberships and a family plan, but it's worth evaluating in case that changes over time. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Thanks for letting me rant, and my apologies for being so angry about it. I will get over it I am sure.

    No, thank you for taking the time to share your honest feelings in a constructive way. I know that's not easy in general when I'm frustrated, and I think we can probably agree that the internet does not necessarily nurture the better angels of human nature. Respect! I really do personally think that 1Password.com membership are a great value with great features (it's made my life as the family's tech guy so much nicer!), but we at AgileBits also believe that it's the best option for most people, even if it isn't a perfect fit for everyone; but it's important that we get all sorts of feedback, positive and negative, so we're not just taking these things for granted. Always glad to hear from you or any of our awesome customers, even if what we're hearing isn't what we were hoping for. :blush:

  • Thanks. To clarify my point on renting vs buy:. When I “buy” a software package, I use it (typically) without time restriction (under license.) Yes, I know I don’t “own” it, and yes I am aware it may stop working due to hardware or or OS updates. But if I stop buying upgrades, or just buy nothing else, I can still use that software package I have for as long as it works. I have never had a license on a software “purchase” revoked. Just isn’t done, so “buy”applies even if it is not totally accurate.

    But under a monthly plan, as soon as I stop paying that monthly fee, the software is “turned off”and the license revoked (maybe there is a grace period or end of month thing), but basically I have “rented” the software (license), and once I stop paying rent, I am out. It stops working, and access to my data or functionality just disappears. And in general, a year of rent usually equates to the purchase price, or is very close, so after that time frame, the cost goes up quickly.

    The only advantage is with updates. But most of the software packages I buy include updates as well, so the real win is only on major releases. But How often does that happen? At least once a year?

    That is what I mean buy renting vs “buying.” Just wanted to clear up that I know it is a license, but in reality, I have th software package “for life.”

    Thanks for the conversation. I will probably end up signing up, it still is one of the best password managers out there. I’ll just resent that I’m locked into rental from then on to keep functionality and access to my data.

    Cheers

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks. To clarify my point on renting vs buy:. When I “buy” a software package, I use it (typically) without time restriction (under license.) Yes, I know I don’t “own” it, and yes I am aware it may stop working due to hardware or or OS updates. But if I stop buying upgrades, or just buy nothing else, I can still use that software package I have for as long as it works. I have never had a license on a software “purchase” revoked. Just isn’t done, so “buy”applies even if it is not totally accurate.

    @MajorHavoc: Totally. That makes sense. You and I understand this, but I wanted to clarify more for anyone else reading "buy" and thinking that means it'll work forever. Part of me wishes that were possible, but then again I would hate to give up all of the cool new stuff that's happening in technology all the time. :)

    But under a monthly plan, as soon as I stop paying that monthly fee, the software is “turned off”and the license revoked (maybe there is a grace period or end of month thing), but basically I have “rented” the software (license), and once I stop paying rent, I am out. It stops working, and access to my data or functionality just disappears. And in general, a year of rent usually equates to the purchase price, or is very close, so after that time frame, the cost goes up quickly.

    I get you, but that's not how 1Password.com works. Even if you stop subscribing, you can still access your data and export it. So it's not like it self destructs or anything, taking your data with it into oblivion. Again, I'm sure you understand that, but talking about ownership and software that is “turned off” means something very different to most people. And of course one year of 1Password.com is, per user, much less than a license. I understand that this may not be the case with some other subscription services though.

    The only advantage is with updates.

    I'd argue that it's a big one, but hardly the only one. There are a lot of features which aren't even possible with a standalone app which we were able to develop with 1Password.com.

    But most of the software packages I buy include updates as well, so the real win is only on major releases. But How often does that happen? At least once a year?

    It really depends. but the cool thing is that with 1Password.com memberships, we don't have to try to cram a bunch of new features into a single "major release"; we ship them whenever they're ready, like, well...1Password.com itself, and both Travel Mode and Item History, along with others I'm forgetting at the moment which were things we added long after version 6 shipped.

    That is what I mean buy renting vs “buying.” Just wanted to clear up that I know it is a license, but in reality, I have th software package “for life.”

    I guess, but I don't think it's helpful to frame it that way. I've purchased many licenses over the years which were explicitly advertised as "lifetime"...and most of those products pretty much no longer exist, and certainly aren't usable with the hardware and other software I'm using today.

    Thanks for the conversation. I will probably end up signing up, it still is one of the best password managers out there. I’ll just resent that I’m locked into rental from then on to keep functionality and access to my data. Cheers

    Well, I really appreciate that. Seriously, thank you for the kind words, and for your willingness to support us, even in spite of your (understandable) feelings about subscriptions versus licenses! We're only here because we have such awesome customers like you, and while we know it's our job to make 1Password better and better so you want to keep paying for the value you get from it...but at the same time, we only want happy customers, not trapped ones, so, to be completely clear, we won't lock you out of your data even if your subscription lapses. We wouldn't have it any other way. :blush:

  • edited July 2018

    Sad to see this ending up as a sales pitch. Only way for me as a developer to maintain a two local vaults right now (without buying into Apples product lines) is to boot up windows and use the client and manually load another vault. No other way, thats it. We do not allow to host password files in the cloud, so theres that.

    I'm not in the position to make company wide decisions to buy into some kind of online vault, I just need to be able to maintain our employees satisfaction with your program and its established use.

    Same goes with any other topic I search to solve this: CLI subscription only, windows client still there but never got multiple vaults, Android client does not even offer multiple faults on Pro version, so here I am, stuck, in an shifting ecosystem, thanks for that.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @kiwi_coconut_hedge: I'm not sure you read my previous post (from March 16th) in its entirety if you think it's "ending up as a sales pitch". I've heard a lot of sales pitches in my day, and that ain't one. It would be silly though for me to pretend like other options aren't available.

    But I thank you for chiming in, especially sharing your specific situation. Indeed, it's a difficult position to be in when it isn't up to you. But feel free to reach out to us at [email protected] and we'll see if there's some way we could help your company get setup with something that's a better fit. We don't "host password files in the cloud" ourselves and don't want to encourage others to either, which is why 1Password data is always encrypted locally on the device.

    I don't think that using 1Password for Windows is exactly a hardship, but you're right that it doesn't help you on your mobile device. Unfortunately we don't currently have any plans to rewrite 1Password for Android to support multiple local vaults. It's a very niche feature even on platforms where it's supported. But we'll continue to evaluate things as time goes on.

  • I'm using 1Password across multiple platforms and need to share multiple vaults with different groups of people. Given this has been about two years and AgileBits hasn't built this feature, I'm guessing they don't intend to support this.

    Does anyone else out there have a suggestion for an alternative password manager? Does LastPass or DashLane offer multiple vault support across all their platforms?

  • This whole thread has driven me completely crazy - denials aside, the tone of this thread (and others) is not supportive of your users who just want honest and direct answer (I was a long time user of 1Password who in the past suggested 1Password to many others - including whole IT departments) But now there are other products with a much more competitive price point (and non-subscription models) that better match the use cases being mentioned here. For instance if you were Google something like 'multi platform "free desktop" password' you would (especially if checking the upcoming beta versions of some products) probably find what you are looking for. 1Password folks - I think some market research might be in order if you want to keep and/or expand your market share... (Well, let's see if this post gets deleted.)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I'm using 1Password across multiple platforms and need to share multiple vaults with different groups of people. Given this has been about two years and AgileBits hasn't built this feature, I'm guessing they don't intend to support this.

    and

    your users who just want honest and direct answer

    @phaitour, @jeffsenn: As I mentioned in my comments immediately preceding both of yours,

    we don't currently have any plans to rewrite 1Password for Android to support multiple local vaults. It's a very niche feature even on platforms where it's supported. But we'll continue to evaluate things as time goes on.

    I think that's pretty direct, straightforward, and honest. Our focus is on 1Password.com currently, since that allows us to support features like multiple vaults seamlessly, without having to duplicate our own efforts, and without users having to configure sync for individual vaults on each and every device.

    You should absolutely check out the competition in this space. We don't want you or anyone else to use 1Password because you feel like you have to, as if there were no other option. 1Password isn't going to be the perfect fit for everyone's specific preferences or use case. There are other products out there, and if one of those is a better fit you should use it. Just like not everyone prefers Android, macOS, etc. We'd rather you use something else than nothing at all. Stay safe out there.

  • nawh @brenty. your team's answers have consistently been ambiguous (but i'll give you honest). to say that you don't have plans but will continue to evaluate is like a hot chick telling you she's not dating anyone right now but she'll think about going out with you. it's called leading someone on bro. if you really want to actually be direct, straightforward, and honest, try this on for size:

    sorry, 1Password for Android will not support multiple local vaults. i'm really sorry you guys have built a workflow around multiple local vaults on our other platforms, but this is not a feature we are going to support across the 1Password family of products.

    look, my post was simple. you guys wont build support for this feature on android (i.e. you guys have preferential treatment to other platforms). so i wanted to ask the community of what other password managers they use. (honestly, no real need for a response here)

    but since you did reply, the idea that we use 1Password because we feel like we have to is a truly ridiculous statement regardless how you slice it. of course you're not forcing us to use your product -- which is that's completely absurd -- so you clearly aren't suggesting that. we paid for 1Password on all the other platforms. we built our password history with your product. if you don't think we have some vested interest in trying to find a solid solution to our problems with your product on Android, you're wrong. if you don't see this then you're in the wrong line of work trying to respond to these forums.

  • MajorHavocMajorHavoc
    edited October 2018

    I really hate it when I type a long response and am asked to “Post as...”, I log in and then your forum throws away the post. That is a very annoying bug! So my comment will not be seen right now due to technical difficulties

  • MajorHavocMajorHavoc
    edited October 2018

    Sadly, I have to agree to a point with phaitour. While I do believe you have been honest, I think his point is well made that it is not direct and kind of a tease. “Continue to evaluate” is the same as “We may do it in the future.” Seriously? If not by now, yea then he is right, just say we have no plans, period. We all know this is a dead issue. I have moved on, but still disappointed.

    As for alternatives, I have looked at several, and I still think 1Password is the best one out there. While I have not pulled the trigger on a subscription yet, I’m very close.

    Bentley, one question on the Android platform. I got a message that I had to update my file to a new format on the Android. But when I did that, it disconnected form all the other platforms as it created a new named file. It was still working with the old file long after I was asked to update it. Why was that necessary? And a little warning on the results of that update would have been welcomed. It messed up syncing for quite some time, and may have lost me some passwords created in the transition. It was not a smooth change. Seems like once again Android got short changed.

    Thanks for listening.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @phaitour: "No plans" is pretty straightforward. And we absolutely should continue to evaluate things. I'm sorry if that isn't clear enough for you. That other misogynous garbage has no place here though. At the end of the day, a solution already exists for multiple vaults in 1Password for Android. It's up to you whether or not you use that.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I really hate it when I type a long response and am asked to “Post as...”, I log in and then your forum throws away the post. That is a very annoying bug! So my comment will not be seen right now due to technical difficulties

    @MajorHavoc: Yeah, I hate that too. It's gotten better over time, but it's still not something that's completely reliable in the forum software. Sorry about that. :blush:

    While I do believe you have been honest, I think his point is well made that it is not direct and kind of a tease. “Continue to evaluate” is the same as “We may do it in the future.” Seriously? If not by now, yea then he is right, just say we have no plans, period. We all know this is a dead issue. I have moved on, but still disappointed. As for alternatives, I have looked at several, and I still think 1Password is the best one out there. While I have not pulled the trigger on a subscription yet, I’m very close.

    Thanks for the kind words, especially under the circumstances. And I hear you. I'm just not comfortable saying "never" since I have no way of knowing that to be true. There are very few things we'll say "no, never" to (off the top of my head: WebDav, or not requiring a Master Password). "No plans" means what it sounds like: it's not on our todo list. But I'm sorry if anyone read more into it than that.

    Bentley, one question on the Android platform. I got a message that I had to update my file to a new format on the Android. But when I did that, it disconnected form all the other platforms as it created a new named file. It was still working with the old file long after I was asked to update it. Why was that necessary? And a little warning on the results of that update would have been welcomed. It messed up syncing for quite some time, and may have lost me some passwords created in the transition. It was not a smooth change. Seems like once again Android got short changed. Thanks for listening.

    This is a bit off topic, so if you want to discuss it further (I'm more than happy to — @-mention me) please start a new discussion.

    But the short version is that the AgileKeychain format is very old and inefficient, and since OPVault has been around for about half a decade now we've moved to that fully with version 7. All you need to do after converting is, as mentioned in the prompt, setup your other devices to use the same new OPVault (you'll still have both that and the original vault, so you won't have lost anything). If you need help with that still, let us know.

    But you're right that this wasn't as clear or as smooth as we'd like, so we've actually just released an update to 1Password for Android to better help folks make this transition, and clarify the ramifications. It should be rolled out to everyone shortly. Thanks for your feedback on this, and be sure to let us know if you have any more. :)

  • Thank you

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Any time! :) :+1:

  • Hi There I'm just adding my 50 cents to the conversation and adding my feedback that if the feature was available I would be really happy! don't get me wrong I'm a happy customer but I would be happier if I had the ability to sync two vaults on my Android phone.

    I don't know if this will ever happen but I sure hope so.

    Thanks for the great work!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for chiming in. I'm sorry to say that we don't have plans to add support for multiple local vaults, as would be a substantial redesign just for one feature, and our focus is on our hosted service. I'm glad that otherwise you're enjoying 1Password. :blush:

  • plucasplucas
    edited January 20

    I recently got an AndroidOne phone, the goal is to see if I can switch from iPhone, I read a lot that the weak point for android is that some apps have limited features compare to the iOS version, and until now everything looks the same to me, even sometimes better and cheaper. But then I found this "missing feature": multiple local vaults. iOS support long time ago, the mac version too and even syncing happily with dropbox.

    I try to read most of the comments, and seems like this feature it's not supported on android and won't be.

    This just remind me how some android apps are still lagging, and I can't just get off my hands from my old iPhone sadly but true.

    And I'm sorry I do not support 1password.com (for now), does not make sense, the features I ALREADY PAY (several versions and different platforms), they are already there I don't need more. If there's a feature I REALLY need I would like to upgrade to get that version, and that's it.

    To be honest this pay me every month not only from agilebits, but for most companies using the same model, they don't want to see the other side. 80% of the users, uses 20% of the features, and the rest 20% of the users, use 80% of the features of any software and they have to pay the same!. Building more and more features some times does not make sense.

    I recently quit, evernote, pingdom, and many other companies because the same reason. I use and enjoy 1Password on Mac and iOS (mostly) but also Windows and now on Android and I want to thank you for your previous hard work.

    My two cents.
    Angel.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    And I'm sorry I do not support 1password.com (for now), does not make sense, the features I ALREADY PAY (several versions and different platforms), they are already there I don't need more. If there's a feature I REALLY need I would like to upgrade to get that version, and that's it.

    @plucas: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can certainly see your point. While I can't speak for other software, many of the things our customers have been requesting from us were only possible with a hosted service, and, by extension, subscriptions. If the version(s) you've already paid for do everything you want already though, I agree: it wouldn't make sense for you at this time to upgrade -- either with a new license purchase or a membership. But we're still working on it, and perhaps that equation will change for you at some point in the future. :)

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