Windows 10 "keylogger"

Trying out Windows 10, and supposedly it has a "keylogger." I know it's supposed to "help" you, but some think it's a little "odd."

Nonetheless how much of a "threat" is this to 1Password? In particular when you input your Master Password?

Thanks!


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Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley: Awkward, to say the least. Much the same as we have to inherently trust the vendors of critical hardware components, there really isn't anything 1Password (or any app) can do to protect you from the OS itself. So while I'm not entirely comfortable with this in principle, unless I start fabbing my own chips and build my own OS (Brennix?) this is "the cost of doing business". To be clear, 1Password for Windows version 4 has a great Secure Desktop feature for process isolation to prevent keylogging in general...but nothing can isolate 1Password from Windows.

    That said, Microsoft does offer a lot of tools to opt-out (though I wish it were the other way 'round) of these things. Turning off "Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future" (in Windows Settings > Privacy > General) is a good place to start. And I'd also disable "Stop getting to know me" (in Windows Settings > General > Speech, inking and typing).

    Just as a a final note, while this hasn't happened to me personally, many folks have reported these resetting to their (unfortunately "on") defaults, particularly after a major update. So that's something I'd check up on periodically, just to make sure they still reflect your intentions. Don't get me wrong, I love Windows 10 the OS. But I'm not fond of having things like this enabled by default and spread between multiple options. Glad to have the option though. Cheers! ;)

  • Hi @brenty!

    Awkward, to say the least. Much the same as we have to inherently trust the vendors of critical hardware components, there really isn't anything 1Password (or any app) can do to protect you from the OS itself. So while I'm not entirely comfortable with this in principle, unless I start fabbing my own chips and build my own OS (Brennix?) this is "the cost of doing business".

    Yes, I remember you mentioning this to me before. :p

    To be clear, 1Password for Windows version 4 has a great Secure Desktop feature for process isolation to prevent keylogging in general...but nothing can isolate 1Password from Windows.

    Yes, I've used this before. I was going to ask if this would "protect" inputing your 1Password Master Password from the Windows 10 "keylogger." But I guess the answer would be your answer in my first quote of you above...

    That said, Microsoft does offer a lot of tools to opt-out (though I wish it were the other way 'round) of these things. Turning off "Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future" (in Windows Settings > Privacy > General) is a good place to start. And I'd also disable "Stop getting to know me" (in Windows Settings > General > Speech, inking and typing).

    Yes, I've disabled that based on the recommendations I've found on various websites I've read. While we're on the topic, why is it that Cortona seems to more invasive as opposed to similar services from Apple and Google...Siri and Google Now respectively.

    Just as a a final note, while this hasn't happened to me personally, many folks have reported these resetting to their (unfortunately "on") defaults, particularly after a major update. So that's something I'd check up on periodically, just to make sure they still reflect your intentions. Don't get me wrong, I love Windows 10 the OS. But I'm not fond of having things like this enabled by default and spread between multiple options. Glad to have the option though. Cheers! ;)

    Thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to check it from time to time.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @ScarySulley,

    On behalf of Brenty, you're welcome. This is one of the things on why I'm keeping an eye on QubesOS and may potentially be the future of desktop OSes, where every process/app are self-contained into their own VM containers.

  • Thanks, @MikeT, for the link!

    Yes, I've disabled that based on the recommendations I've found on various websites I've read. While we're on the topic, why is it that Cortona seems to more invasive as opposed to similar services from Apple and Google...Siri and Google Now respectively.

    ^^^

    @MikeT and @brenty - Just wanted to post again as I think this question got overlooked. Yes, I realize it's not a 1Password-related question, but maybe you can provide some insight.

    Thanks! :)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @ScarySulley,

    You're welcome.

    Yes, I've disabled that based on the recommendations I've found on various websites I've read. While we're on the topic, why is it that Cortona seems to more invasive as opposed to similar services from Apple and Google...Siri and Google Now respectively.

    I don't know about Brenty but it's hard to answer that question because they all have three different approaches in how their service can help.

    Here's my opinion which isn't that well researched, mostly because I don't use them but I've played around with them.

    Each company has a different goal for their service;

    Microsoft is all about being productive by integrating Cortana in everything you do, like browsing in Edge, working in Office, and so on, it has to do this in real time and analyzing everything you do. Microsoft tends to have better first-class high-end productive products and Cortana can be deeply integrated in them since they own the whole stack on Windows 10.

    Google has something like this in development, what they called On Tap last year but they haven't taken off at wider scale yet. I suspect Google is just not yet ready but they do want to go further with Google Now. They do have a Oct 4th event happening very soon and the rumors are that Google plans to do their own branding of Android and devices, which could suggest they may go further to integrate deeper into Android.

    Apple wants Siri to be more of a passive assistant first, you have to ask Siri first, it then computes or uses a third party app afterward to complete. This doesn't require any deeper integration right now because Siri is a separate passive thing. This isn't like what Microsoft or Google is doing by integrating on a lower level to work in all apps.

    Apple is very methodical and focused on privacy but they're also very slow to roll out their service, it is only just now with the iOS 10 release that specific group of developers can add Siri support to their apps, Siri came out 4 years ago. However, this support is very limited and again, very passive. The devs have to explain to Siri how to work with it.

    Amazon is also in the game with Alexa, they're all about using hardware like Echo to make shopping very easy but they're fairly more advanced compared to the services above and that's because they're far more open to third party devs to integrate with Alexa and they're learning from their customers about how to improve their service. Amazon's in this to make Amazon the first thing you think of when you want to shop.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited October 2016

    While we're on the topic, why is it that Cortona seems to more invasive as opposed to similar services from Apple and Google...Siri and Google Now respectively.

    @ScarySulley: Sorry about that! I actually wanted to respond to that earlier hesitated since I don't have any insider info, and don't necessarily want to bash Microsoft — and then I forgot completely. So, take this with a grain of salt, but I think it's simply outside of Microsoft's core competencies. Mike made some great points about the different approaches being used, so I wanted to add a few things from another perspective. I'll say that, in my experience, Amazon does the "best" here in the sense that the narrower focus results in higher success rates. But of course it depends on what you're trying to do.

    As far as Microsoft's Cortana, Google is an obvious comparison since they seem to be the overall leader. But I think it's interesting that you included Apple in that as well. They have improved a lot, but it isn't their specialty either, and it shows at times. Google is pretty "invasive", but they've also had a head start and therefore more time to learn from user feedback. Cortana is very new relative to Google Now and Siri, so I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has to learn some hard lessons here too. Machine intelligence is one thing, but applying emotional intelligence alongside it so the machines don't creep people out is a a very delicate balance. ;)

  • Thank you for taking the time to provide your insight @MikeT! and @brenty! :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited October 2016

    Any time! It's kind of you to characterize my words as "insight"! I think I'm just your average opinionated nerd. Happy to oblige though! hehe

This discussion has been closed.