Problems after switching Dropbox to iCloud

mikeboremikebore Junior Member
edited October 2016 in 1Password 6 Beta

I have five devices:
Mac A running Sierra and 1Password 6.3.4 AgileStore version
Mac B running Sierra and 1Password beta 6.5b23
iPhone 6+ running iOS10
iPad Air running iOS10
iPhone 6 running iOS10

I have been using Dropbox for past two years without problem, but as I have been making a general move to iCloud I decided to switch 1Password to iCloud.

I switched over yesterday and everything happened flawlessly as per book. After the data had been created on iCloud, and all devices had completed their first sync to iCloud, all devices had 530 items on.

Over the last 24 hours I have been testing by creating test secure notes on each device, and finding problems:

  1. Mac B is not automatically syncing. e.g. I created a test entry and the other four devices all picked it up straightaway, (but see 2 below). However Mac B didn't pick up the test entry and the pref setting showed "last syncd 16 hours ago". I turned iCloud sync off, then on again, and it syncd and then it did pick up the latest test, and also picked up the latest test in 2 below. So maybe it is OK now.
  2. iPhone 6+ shows in the sync setting window that it last sync'd just now, with 532 items, and the test entry is there, but the number of items in the All Items main Categories window is 531. However after making another test entry on another device this has corrected itself to 533. But then I made another test entry on the iPhone 6+ and item count correctly increased to 534 in sync settings, but went back to 531 in All Items ! I turned sync off and on on the iPhone 6+ but it still shows 531 in All Items and 534 in sync settings. I quit the app by double press home and swipe, and relaunched it and now it has 534 in both places. So maybe the iPhone 6+ is OK now.

So at this moment all devices are working correctly with iCloud, but I am nervous and will have to keep a close eye on items counts to restore confidence. I switched from iCloud to Dropbox two years ago because of these kind of problems, but hoped things had improved with iCloud since then.

Is there anything else I can do to improve reliability? Is Dropbox syncing more reliable?

EDIT More tests and Mac B is still automatically syncing resetting iCloud sync, but now find that Mac A is not automatically syncing, even after turning sync off and on again. Also the iPhone 6+ again has the item count mismatch between All Items and sync settings. (I have to admit this item count issue could have been happening with Dropbox, and I wouldn't have noticed because the actual items are being sync'd).

1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided


  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member
    edited October 2016

    I found another thread where it was suggested by Support to restart 1P Mini, and it that doesn't work to Reset iCloud data from the Troubleshooting menu.

    Mac B had not sync'd for 7 hrs and missing some a test secure note created on another device. I restarted 1P mini and it immediately sync'd. Will see if this sticks, before trying the Reset.

    Mac A has been syncing OK all day. iPhone 6+ is syncing correctly but still has different item count in Settings and Categories.

  • AGKyleAGKyle AgileSupport

    Team Member

    Hi @mikebore

    In all likelihood this is due to having data and then having to merge it all together again on a new sync source. The number counts in Settings will almost always be different. In the case of items that were in the Trash and then the Trash was deleted. Those get turned into Tombstones. Tombstones are still files/items that indicate when the item was originally deleted. This facilities syncing. However, tombstones only get imported into the active database on the device if the item already existed (i.e. it needs to be deleted on that device). If the item never existed in the database, we skip the tombstone.

    So items that were previously on the device, those will count as items in Settings. Items that never existed on the device, those will not be imported and skipped instead.

    The item count in Settings counts Tombstones as well, as you can imagine, if items are being skipped that will cause item counts to be different among some devices than others.

    The number we care about the most are those in Categories. These should definitely match. Are the numbers off by 1 or 2, or more?

    Might also be worth moving this to email since it'll allow us to get some more information from you. So, I think we should do that, lets start with some diagnostics reports from each device having trouble:

    I'd like to ask you to create some Diagnostics Reports, one from each of your devices:

    Attach the Diagnostics Report(s) to an email message addressed to [email protected].

    Please do not post your Diagnostics Report(s) in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report(s) in our inbox.

    You should receive an automated reply from our BitBot assistant with a Support ID number.  Please post that number here so we can track down the report(s) and ensure that this issue is dealt with quickly. :)

    Once we see the report we should be able to better assist you. Thanks very much!

  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member

    My main concern is that my two macs have periods of not syncing hence not picking up changes from other devices.
    The item count on the iPhone issue you have responded to is comparatively minor since new entries are being synced, and the number in settings correctly reflects additions and deletions.
    I am effectively off the Internet for next week, so have to put this on hold until I return.
    I am hoping that the steps in my last post may solve the not syncing problem, but will be in touch when I return.

  • ag_kevinag_kevin Junior Member

    Team Member

    Hi @mikebore ,

    The next time one of your Macs doesn't appear to sync, try locking and then unlocking 1Password. If that fixes it, then it sounds like that Mac is not getting the notification from iCloud that the sync data has changed. Normally when you sync something with iCloud, iCloud will send out a notification to all other devices that the data has changed, and it's time to sync. If for some reason, it didn't get the notification, then it won't know to try to sync. Locking and unlocking will trigger a forced sync, and it re-registers for notifications.

    The next time you notice this happening, take note of the date and time that you changed data on another device. Then, wait a few minutes, and create a Diagnostics Report from your Mac that is not syncing:

    Sending Diagnostics Reports (Mac)

    Attach the Diagnostics Report(s) to an email message addressed to [email protected] and include the date and time when you synced the other device.

    Please do not post your Diagnostics Report(s) in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your Diagnostics Report(s) in our inbox.

    You should receive an automated reply from our BitBot assistant with a Support ID number. Please post that number here so we can track down the report quickly.

    After that, lock and unlock again and let me know if sync started working again.


  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member

    Thanks. Very helpful.

  • ag_kevinag_kevin Junior Member

    Team Member

    You're very welcome. If you have any other questions, just let us know.

  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member
    edited October 2016

    I have been back from holiday for a day now, so have access to all five devices and good internet.

    I have been doing more testing with test secure notes, and find things worse than ever. I no longer have any confidence that any of the five devices are syncing properly using iCloud, and don't know which of the five devices are working and which not. It is difficult to separate a failure to sync to iCloud from a failure to sync from iCloud.

    As advised above, locking and unlocking does trigger a sync but even though a sync occurs, the test secure notes are often not sync'd. I have stopped and re-started sync on the devices and also reset cloud data from the troubleshooting menu. On Mac B, after turning off iCloud syncing and turning on again, it hung for thirty minutes downloading data, never completing.

    If it had been a simple matter of one device out of step I would have gone through the diagnostics report process above.

    What I did to recover:
    1. Turned off syncing on all five devices.
    2. On the last device I told it to delete the iCloud data.
    3. Also deleted iCloud data using the Help->Troubleshooting option for good measure.
    4. Rebooted all five devices.
    5. Set up Dropbox sync initially on Mac A, then the other four devices.
    1Password is now behaving properly again on all five devices.....near instant sync of any test.

    Question....if after doing 1-4 above, I had started iCloud sync instead of Dropbox, is it likely I would have cleared out whatever was causing my problems? and hence would have been successful? Subject to your answer I may try again after a recovery period.

    I have been using 1Password for years and years, and only ever had problems when using iCloud, this time and previously about two years ago. I have all my documents on iCloud and that is behaving fine.

    The items count on the iDevices is still different in the Categories window and Settings->Sync window. I suspect this is to do with the complicated tombstoning explanation above.

    The iDevices show 64 items in Categories->Secure Notes and 533 in All Items. They all show 530 items in Settings-> Sync.
    The two Macs both show 61 Secure Notes and 530 All Items.

    When I actually count the Secure notes on the iPhone there are 61, which is the same as the two macs.

    I have done a lot of creating Secure Notes, deleting them, emptying trash so I think this is why the Secure notes number in Categories is wrong.

    I am not worried about this item count issue as I am confident the data is being sync'd.

  • ag_kevinag_kevin Junior Member

    Team Member

    Hi @mikebore ,

    I'm glad to hear it's working again. FYI, your documents in iCloud use a different technology than 1Password. 1Password uses CloudKit - a technology for syncing database records rather than single document at a time. CloudKit sync is generally reliable, but with all online sync methods, are dependent on the all points in between. Without the diagnostic report it's hard to say for certain what happened. Regardless, keep an eye on it, and if you notice something not syncing again, please let us know.


  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member

    Thanks Kevin,

    Could you comment on my question/suggestion that deleting all iCloud data and turning off sync on all devices, might have cleared out the problem, and iCloud syncing might have worked then?

    Is there a more thorough reset/clear out that can be done before starting over?

  • ag_kevinag_kevin Junior Member

    Team Member

    Hi @mikebore ,

    Deleting iCloud data and turning off sync would have cleared all data out of iCloud, and cleared out the caching that 1Password does for iCloud sync, so yes, that would have cleared out the problem. I don't believe there's anything else that could be done.


  • mikeboremikebore Junior Member

    Thanks very much for confirming. I will probably try again at some point.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Please let us know what you find. I'm really sorry for the trouble you've had, and I appreciate your patience and willingness to work with us to troubleshoot it. :blush:

This discussion has been closed.