Does 1Password 6 for Windows support local Dropbox vaults [Local vaults are not supported]

adamjbadamjb
edited April 2017 in 1Password 4 for Windows

I have a shared Dropbox vault that I use in 1Password 6 on macOS that I need to share with a windows 1Password family subscriber. Will 1Password 6 on Windows 10 be able to open/view/edit my Dropbox shared vault?


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @adamjb,

    Thanks for writing in.

    1Password 6 does not fully support local vaults, it can read them but it does not support modifying them nor syncing them automatically. You can perform a sync manually if you want.

    Your family member can invite you onto their 1Password account as an additional member or as a guest if they want to just copy/modify the vault without paying for an additional member. For our curiosity, is there a specific reason why you guys wouldn't be on the same Families account? It will help us to understand and we can change some things based on this.

  • We have 4 related families that all need access to some of the same passwords.

    My family purchased a 1Password family license years ago before 1Password offered a subscription, and have been using Dropbox to store our own vaults and shared vaults. We have all also purchased 1Password Pro for our iPhones. Between the five of us in my family, we have invested a lot of money in 1Password.

    These other 3 families I have recently converted to 1Password family users, from using no password manager. We now need to share some passwords between all of the families on the different family accounts/standalone licenses.

    Even if my family upgraded to a 1Password family account, for which we get no other feature benefits or discounts for being long-time 1Password users and proponents, it isn't clear if you can share vaults between family subscriptions. Dropbox seems like the clear choice for sharing a vault.

  • We would actually lose some features by "upgrading" to a family subscription, as we would be downgrading to only 1GB of storage and 365 days of deleted item and password history.

  • It also isn't clear who can share what when dealing with the Single, Family, and Team subscriptions that all need access to the same passwords. This isn't a problem with Dropbox shared vaults.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @adamjb,

    These are all great and informative posts, thank you for sharing them with us. I hope you don't mind, I've moved this to our Families forum, so that our 1Password.com team can get a look at them and follow up with you.

    In the meantime, for your Windows question, unfortunately, 1Password 6 isn't at that stage yet where it can be used for that type of shared local vaults usage, it can certainly read them but you'd need 1Password 4 for writing/updating them. It is possible to use both 1Password 4 and 6 at the same time on Windows until 1Password 6 is updated with the full local vault support.

  • Can you clarify who can share and open what and where when dealing with the Single, Family, and Team subscriptions?

    Can a 1Password family user install 1Password 4? Or do they have to purchase that separately?

    Even if I were invest in a Family subscription for my family, I'm still not sure we can share our passwords using the 1Password subscription shared vaults instead of Dropbox.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @adamjb: This may not be a setup that you prefer, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there since it's something that could work for you a bit better now: How about having everyone as part of the same 1Password Family?

    If you're all using 1Password Families anyway with separate family accounts, it wouldn't cost anything more than what you're already collectively paying...and could actually be less, if any of the separate families are not using the full 5 members included. Just a thought, since you can always add additional members over and above the included 5.

    Can you clarify who can share and open what and where when dealing with the Single, Family, and Team subscriptions?

    It isn't possible to share data directly between separate accounts, as each has its own encryption keys, which in turn apply to each subsidiary vault and item. Inviting someone to my 1Password Families account gives them access automatically to vaults that are shared with them, as they are granted the keys automatically. So an individual account is effectively an "island"; whereas 1Password Families (and Teams) are able to invite and share vaults between members, since they keys can be given securely.

    Can a 1Password family user install 1Password 4? Or do they have to purchase that separately?

    While 1Password 4 isn't included in the subscription strictly speaking (since it cannot connect to the service), if that's the route you'd like to go shoot us an email at [email protected] and we can help. Just post the Support ID you receive here for context.

    Even if I were invest in a Family subscription for my family, I'm still not sure we can share our passwords using the 1Password subscription shared vaults instead of Dropbox.

    While you can't share your hosted vaults outside of your 1Password Family account, you could use local vaults to share via Dropbox for this purpose, or consolidate your families so hosted vaults can be easily and securely shared between members. Also note that you can create any number of vaults and share them with none, all, or one or more members, so it isn't an "all-or-nothing". Either way though, let us know what you think would be the best fit for you and we'll help you work out the details. :)

  • Does 1Password 4 on Windows support .opvault files?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @adamjb: Indeed, it does! The only caveat is that 1Password 4 is an older codebase, so it doesn't perform as well as with AgileKeychain (which it supported from the outset). OPVault is fully supported, but is noticeably slower in most cases (which is a big reason — one of many — why we're starting from scratch with 1Password 6). I hope this helps!

  • I too, like @adamjb was a user for many years, purchases the version for both windows and mac and have been using dropbox support.
    I prefer to keep everything there as well and not use your service. Choosing my own storage was why I chose your product instead of LastPass.

    What is the timeline for 1Password 6 for windows supporting Dropbox?
    Having two versions side by side is not ideal and I can't help but feel that AgileBits is trying to "gently" suggest to users to move to a subscription model.
    Delaying the dropbox support seems like a "motivator". I hope this is not the case but this is how it comes off, unfortunately.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @shlomoid: We don't have a timeline for that, as it isn't something we're working on at the moment. If you prefer local vaults, you can always use 1Password 4. It's already a mature app, and won't cost you anything more if you've already purchased a license for it.

  • I understand the 4.0 version is "mature" and that I can use it. That's not at all what I was saying. What I said is: I can't help but feel that AgileBits is trying to "gently" suggest to users to move to a subscription model. I would appreciate if you address this concern I have directly.

    You have a new version, the new version is better and all the development is focused there. The older one may be "mature" but I read is as "deprecated" given the circumstances. If you have no plans to add dropbox support you've locked me in this deprecated version until I move to your subscription model. Not having a plan to add that missing feature only fortifies this assumption. I feel I was baited and switched and it's not great.

    The strange thing is that I have both Mac and PC and on the Mac for some reason this is not an issue, the new 6.x branch runs fine, no issues with dropbox. Same for iOS, no issues with two different versions, no older 4.0. Why is PC different?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @shlomoid: I guess I don't understand where the "bait and switch" sentiment comes from. You can continue using 1Password as you always have, we're just offering something different now as well. We absolutely recommend 1Password.com memberships since they're demonstrably the best implementation of 1Password we've come up with so far, but of course if you already have what you need, the cost/benefit analysis might not be there for to switch — and I don't just mean financially.

    You ask some good questions about the different with regard to platforms. 1Password for Mac and iOS have the benefit of being able to share a lot of code, and also a younger codebase than 1Password for Windows version 4. So it isn't that we're giving unfair treatment to one or the other, just that the timing is different based on necessity. 1Password for Mac version 4 was a rewrite as well, and some things were lost while others were gained. Because if that, it was at least feasible to continue building on that foundation in the Mac version. 1Password for Windows, on the other hand, simply didn't offer a way to retrofit new things — not just 1Password.com, but also longstanding desires like resolution independence, Unicode support, accessibility, multidevice (and touch) support, and general performance efficiency improvements. We get a lot of this "for free" by doing the hard work of starting from scratch to build a new app using the newest tools and frameworks. So it's definitely been a trade-off short term, but long term this means that we'll have a lot more flexibility going forward when it comes to improvements and features.

  • laxulaxu Junior Member

    I was actually excited to install 1Password 6 on Windows because frankly, I've been waiting for it to arrive for years now. While 1Password 4 works ok, it is miles behind the Mac version of the software. After excitedly installing 1P 6 on my Windows machine only to be shown that I have to create an account and can only use an online version left me feeling like Windows users are still treated as second class citizens.

    Why didn't you make 1P 6 work with local vaults first and instead decided to implement an online version first? For a long time 1Password user, being able to have the vaults whereever I want was one of the best and distinct features of 1Password. I don't want to go to a subscription model and if that becomes the only option in the future, I will have to look for password management elsewhere. I don't want to end up in a situation where Mac version is so far ahead its vaults are no longer compatible with Windows version because it's stuck on an old standalone and a newer online only version.

    To me reaching feature parity on the Mac and Windows version of the standalone software should be the priority.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Why didn't you make 1P 6 work with local vaults first and instead decided to implement an online version first?

    @laxu: Because we already have a Windows app that works with local vaults. The only way to support 1Password.com natively on Windows was to build a new app.

    To me reaching feature parity on the Mac and Windows version of the standalone software should be the priority.

    It is, and that's why we're building the the new app. With a brand new codebase using Microsoft's latest tools we'll have much more flexibility.

  • I guess I don't understand where the "bait and switch" sentiment comes from. You can continue using 1Password as you always have, we're just offering something different now as well.

    I can explain this again, but I feel you understand exactly what I'm saying yet follow the party line of "you have a working version, what are you complaining about?".
    I'm not buying this story. The 4.0 version is clearly not as good as the new one, and it's legacy code you don't want to touch anymore. Obviously, the 6.0 version is the future with lots of nice new features. I don't care about your internal development process but about how it affects me.
    You're leaving me on the old version (since I don't want to move to a subscription model) so in essence you've broken your promise when I paid for the full version, expecting to get upgrades and move to the next generation of your software when it comes out.
    Yes, such an upgrade exists, it costs more money since I need to switch to your membership plan.

    You're asking me for more money to get the new result of your work that was expected as a normal free upgrade. You de-prioritize a feature I am using since it's not making you money. If you said in the beginning that the cost for the full version doesn't include upgrades and that at some point development will stop completely (which is what the effect is for users like me) I would not have paid for your software and looked for a different solution.
    If this is not bait and switch, what is?

  • In the past (before I realized this is the future for the windows version, while it was still in beta) I was recommending 1Password to everyone. I would have bought it even if it was 60 bucks. Vault support was why I bought the product. This was the differentiating feature for me over LastPass.
    You (your company) broke your implicit promise, and hearing " We don't have a timeline for that, as it isn't something we're working on at the moment." is very disappointing.
    If this is indeed the case and 6.0 is not going to get vault support ever, I'm going to look for a different solution and warn others that consider buying the product. With this attitude there is no telling if version 7.0 from Mac is going to suddenly drop this vault support as well for the subscription model and I don't want to plan on using your product long term.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited April 2017

    I'm not buying this story. The 4.0 version is clearly not as good as the new one, and it's legacy code you don't want to touch anymore. Obviously, the 6.0 version is the future with lots of nice new features. I don't care about your internal development process but about how it affects me.

    @shlomoid: This is literally the first time I've heard anyone say that the new app is better. Certainly it has a ton of potential and for many people, for everyday use, it's pretty much there. But it's missing a lot of features and niceties that 1Password 4 has, many of which we're reminded of every day, both in our own use and from customer feedback. You say you don't care about the development process, and certainly most people don't, but that wasn't my impression from your comments regarding differences between the apps. I didn't mean to bore you with the details. I legitimately thought you sounded curious.

    You're leaving me on the old version (since I don't want to move to a subscription model) so in essence you've broken your promise when I paid for the full version, expecting to get upgrades and move to the next generation of your software when it comes out. Yes, such an upgrade exists, it costs more money since I need to switch to your membership plan.

    No one promised you anything about future versions of 1Password. We don't and can't do that before we've even started on a new version. A year ago we still thought we might be able to build on the existing codebase. It didn't work out, and plans had to change. But that's not something we talked about publicly, since it was during internal development.

    You're asking me for more money to get the new result of your work that was expected as a normal free upgrade. You de-prioritize a feature I am using since it's not making you money. If you said in the beginning that the cost for the full version doesn't include upgrades and that at some point development will stop completely (which is what the effect is for users like me) I would not have paid for your software and looked for a different solution. If this is not bait and switch, what is?

    If that were true, then you'd be right. But that's simply not the case. First, we're definitely not asking for more money. You can continue to use your existing license until it someday becomes technically infeasible for you to do so. And this is what we've always said, just worded differently than the way you just phrased it: When you purchase a license for 1Password, you're entitled to all minor updates (e.g. 4.1.-4.2) for that version for free; major updates (e.g. 4.1-5.0) are a paid upgrade. And no software is updated forever (or can reasonably be expected to). That's been the case for the last decade, and we haven't changed the terms for an existing license. We have stopped selling "family" licenses a while back, but this didn't change licenses that folks had already purchased. That is the definition of "bait and switch" — changing the terms for a deal after it's been made — and we haven't done that; rather, it sounds like you've come up with your own license terms, but I don't think that we can reasonably be expected to adhere to them.

    In the past (before I realized this is the future for the windows version, while it was still in beta) I was recommending 1Password to everyone. I would have bought it even if it was 60 bucks. Vault support was why I bought the product. This was the differentiating feature for me over LastPass.

    I think 1Password has a lot to offer, but if local vaults is the absolute most important thing to you, 1Password 6 / 1Password.com isn't what you're looking for.

    You (your company) broke your implicit promise, and hearing " We don't have a timeline for that, as it isn't something we're working on at the moment." is very disappointing.

    I understand being disappointed because you want this feature, but "implicit promise" is an oxymoron. We don't make promises about unreleased/unfinished products/features because many will never see the light of day. I'm sorry that you're disappointed, but I think it's important to not base expectations on just how we hope things will turn out.

    If this is indeed the case and 6.0 is not going to get vault support ever, I'm going to look for a different solution and warn others that consider buying the product. With this attitude there is no telling if version 7.0 from Mac is going to suddenly drop this vault support as well for the subscription model and I don't want to plan on using your product long term.

    We're not able to offer you local vault support in the new app right now, or make a promise for the future at this time; and given how important to you this is, you need to do what you feel is right for you. Certainly we'd prefer that you continue to use 1Password — especially if it suits your needs, working for you the way it always has — but if there's another tool out there that's a better fit for you it makes sense to use it. We sold 1Password to you in the first place based on its present merits, not on hypothetical future enhancements; and similarly it makes sense to pick the tool that works best for you today.

    It would be easier — much, much easier — to simply tell you what you want to hear (at least in the short term), but I think that honesty is more important: 1Password.com is the future. You may not care, but every day people lose data, forget their Master Passwords, and struggle with figuring out how to sync their data and access it on all of their devices. Most people don't care about local vaults. They just want to stay secure and not have sweat the details. So that's going to continue to be our focus: making it as easy as we can for more people to secure their digital lives. Even if it doesn't appeal to you personally, 1Password.com is the best way to accomplish that. Nothing's been taken away from you though, so I hope you won't begrudge others the same benefits you've enjoyed — and can continue to, if you choose.

  • dilleradillera Junior Member

    I will chime in here also, as I see a bad turn for this once great software company. Having used 1P for over 8 years, and run in on Linux OSX and Window computers - I've always recommended it to other people without question.

    Now, after seeing what 1P6 Windows is doing, and the weird responses from Agilebits on this forum I now realize you all have jumped the shark as a software company.

    A few things:

    1. There is no way I would trust you more to store my data that say a Dropbox or iCloud. You should stay in your area of expertise - encryption and app dev. Leave the cloud storage area to the experts- who will be around long after you may be gone.

    2. To any new user coming in you are not explaining very well how the personal vaults work and you seem to be pushing them into this subscription based model. Why? "To keep the servers running..." I read in another thread. Well - you wouldn't need to keep the servers running if you just developed a killer app... you'd need a server (AWS?) for distro only.

    3. The subscription based model is something no sane person would want- especially all the early adopters who have been using your software happily for years using vaults IN Dropbox or something like that. It works 100% of the time.
      I just don't think you are not going to convince any user over 2 years that the subscription model is worth it.

    You all should really should be more honest with customers about the fact that your company has what--- grown to large and now you are forced to go to subs to support it? Another alternative is to go back to your roots and develop high-quality encryption software for people to use, with a company that can survive at that level.

    These are my thoughts, I hope they show you that there is a need for non-subscription model with vault stored where the user wants to store it.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited April 2017

    Hi @dillera,

    Thanks for writing in.

    There is no way I would trust you more to store my data that say a Dropbox or iCloud. You should stay in your area of expertise - encryption and app dev. Leave the cloud storage area to the experts- who will be around long after you may be gone.

    Considering both Dropbox and iCloud were and still uses Amazon's web services, which is the very same service we use to host the encrypted data for you, we are in fact leaving the cloud storage to the experts. We use Amazon to store the data while we manage and run the service on top of their servers.

    If you cannot trust us to store your encrypted data, you cannot trust us to handle your encrypted data either. We describe everything we do with your 1Password data in our technical white paper here and we've been audited by three separate well known security company to ensure we're doing it right. In addition, we're offering 100K to everyone to break into our servers.

    To any new user coming in you are not explaining very well how the personal vaults work and you seem to be pushing them into this subscription based model. Why? "To keep the servers running..." I read in another thread. Well - you wouldn't need to keep the servers running if you just developed a killer app... you'd need a server (AWS?) for distro only.

    I'd have to see what the other thread was to see the context behind that response, that doesn't sound right. If you can provide me with the link, we'd like to look at it.

    However, we didn't start the subscription service to "keep servers running" considering we didn't have servers before. We started 1Password.com membership to help simplify the 1Password experience and it has worked, we've received tens of thousands of positive feedback on this.

    The subscription based model is something no sane person would want- especially all the early adopters who have been using your software happily for years using vaults IN Dropbox or something like that. It works 100% of the time.

    Except we've had this for more than a year now and a lot of users have switched to 1Password.com happily already as this isn't new to us, we had this since late 2015.

    Can you explain why it would not be sane to use the subscription based model? We've explained the benefits of the model here: https://support.1password.com/why-account/

    To standalone users with local vaults, 1Password.com may not met their needs. That's okay, we're still supporting 1Password 4 with local vaults and will ship any security updates. We still want to add support for local vaults / licenses down the line to 1Password 6 for Windows.

    1Password 6 for macOS, iOS, and Android support both local vaults and 1Password.com memberships. The Windows version is the exception because it is a new codebase and will take some time for us to add all of the features that 1Password 4 has in addition to local vaults.

    I just don't think you are not going to convince any user over 2 years that the subscription model is worth it.

    I'm sorry you feel that way. We'll see if you are correct later this year, 1Password.com has been available since Nov 2015 and we've still have a lot of users using it since then. We may not be able to convince all users, especially Windows at the moment, as there is value in having local only licenses but we're getting there.

    You all should really should be more honest with customers about the fact that your company has what--- grown to large and now you are forced to go to subs to support it?

    Going to 1Password.com wouldn't help with scaling of the company, the subscriptions has never been about the revenue. We've built 1Password.com because a central server can simplify a lot of the features that our users have demanded over the years.

    We had a huge number of users who wanted to share data between family members and had a lot of issues using Dropbox to share a vault, 1Password.com was built out of requests from our users, not because of this notion that we're doing it for the revenue it could generate or the size of our company. When we built 1Password.com and ran it in 2015, we were the same size the year before. We grew the company as the result of more users using 1Password, not the other way around.

  • You say you don't care about the development process, and certainly most people don't, but that wasn't my impression from your comments regarding differences between the apps. I didn't mean to bore you with the details. I legitimately thought you sounded curious.

    I do, I was trying to make a point about what this looks like from a customer's point of view. While I do software engineering for a living, not everyone does and while I'm curious what the background is, in this case I'm a customer.

    This is literally the first time I've heard anyone say that the new app is better. Certainly it has a ton of potential and for many people, for everyday use, it's pretty much there.

    Yes, I'm not using any advanced features. I'm a "everyday use" person. I don't consider vaults to be an advanced service, more like basic functionality to take a new version out of beta.
    Another thing that makes me feel this is intentional is that 6.0 supports vaults, but in read only. During the beta it made sense - you said you don't want to corrupt data with bugs. But now, with the version out of beta and having to plans to include it signals you don't have intention of keeping this long term.

    I'd like to know (but I know you can't share this due to financials) what percentage of your customers uses vaults vs your own storage. I bet it's a great solution for some people, but for what you can classify as "power users" this is a bad deal.

    I understand being disappointed because you want this feature, but "implicit promise" is an oxymoron.

    Yes @brenty you have not broke the law, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct as they say on the internet.
    But can you really not see what I'm saying as a customer? You're not acknowledging what multiple people are saying on this thread and explaining how technically no one ever promised us anything etc. Yes, that's right. We assumed good intentions on behalf of the company, we assume what was happening on other platforms is going to happen on windows as well. We assume you'll reach feature parity as @laxu said. Customers assume many things, and for the most customer interactions we have every day there are assumptions built in that are not written in a contract. Trust from your customers is earned over years but can be lost in a moment.
    One assumption I've made is that a basic functionality, the core of how the data is stored and how pricing works, is going to stay the same. I understand now you are changing your corporate strategy and prefer to go to a subscription model. Fine, tell me "we changed our mind and not adding this support in 6.0 is to gently signal the future is subscriptions".

    I feel (note this is another assumption, not a claim about contractual obligations) you're dancing around this issue and hiding behind technicalities. I feel you're not acknowledging my concerns. I feel that you don't care about me as a customer. Please take this feedback. For every person like me and other commenting here who bothers writing this in the forums there are hundreds that don't, and just switch to a different solution.
    People are going to read this post when they search for what the hell happened to the vault in 6.0. They'll read this discussion, and reach the same conclusion as I have. I have not seen a single customer defending this, only company representatives.

    to this from @MikeT :

    Can you explain why it would not be sane to use the subscription based model? We've explained the benefits of the model here: https://support.1password.com/why-account/

    Because maybe I prefer not paying for a subscription? Because it costs more? Because I don't want to store my data on your servers?
    Pretty much all the reasons you created the vault solution to begin with. I wouldn't want to use your storage even if it was free, and would use Dropbox, plus make additional backup as I do today.
    That page lists benefits that are not benefits.

    Use all the apps. Your membership includes the apps for Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android.

    I already own them

    Get all the updates. You’ll get the latest versions of all the 1Password apps for no additional cost as soon as they come out.

    Interesting, this one is exactly what I'd like to have - use the newest version. I guess this is an advantage since you no longer support my method of using the application going forward.

    Enjoy the Pro features. The Pro features in the iOS and Android apps are included without a separate purchase. Learn more about Pro features.

    I already paid for Pro.

    Sync automatically and securely. With a 1Password account, there’s no complicated third-party sync setup. Everything syncs instantly with your account and is available on all your devices across every platform.

    I'm happy to go through the "complicated" setup for dropbox. It's not complicated. Using yet another service with yet another 2factor is complicated.

    Restore previous versions of items. If you accidentally changed or deleted an item, you can restore it.

    Dropbox does it for me. Your Trash already has this. It's not solving a problem for me.

    Back up your data without lifting a finger. If your device is lost or damaged, sign in to your account on a new device. All your passwords and items will be there.

    Dropbox already does it for me.

    Store secure documents. Upload files and keep them in encrypted storage, then access them whenever you need them.

    I never asked to store secure documents. This is a different product. Feel free to charge me more for large encrypted blobs.

    View and edit your data on 1Password.com. You’ll have online access to your data even if you’re away from your main devices.

    Yes, this is indeed a benefit, the first one here. I have no use for it however since I have my phone with me at all times, or my ipad, or my mac, or my pc.

    Benefit from the new multi-factor security model. The security of your 1Password account is fortified by your Secret Key which provides unparalleled end-to-end encryption.

    Really? Dropbox doesn't have 2fac?

    In other words, none of these are advantages for me. However I see an advantage for AgileBits. While before I paid $35 for the software fixed prices, now it's $60 a year! That's not bad at all! I'm sure the investors are happier right along those customers.

    There is no problem with you making money. I also make money on software. But please don't bull*** your loyal customers. You want more money, just say so. Increase the price of the app. Make me pay for newer versions. I'll give you money, I like the product.
    Just don't do it by making me add yet another subscription. Netflix is enough.

  • Correction, $3/month is $36 for a year the $5 is for families. Now I need to re-purchase the app every year for a single user.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @shlomoid: Our intention is to offer the best 1Password experience possible. I don't think that is something we need to defend, or are trying to. It sounds like that's what you want too, only we're in disagreement over implementation details.

    Most people aren't power users like you and I may be. Dropbox is fine. I've used it for years and continue to do so. But, as evidenced by our participation in an internet forum devoted to security software, we're not most people. Most people don't backup their data, or want to deal with purchasing and keep track of multiple licenses, app store accounts, etc. I recognized that it isn't your job to care, but it happens to be ours. Telling someone "you should have backed up" after they've replaced their lost phone sucks both for them and for us. I hope it never happens to you. But your attitude seems to be that the only thing that matters is what matters to you, and that's simply not the case. It's easy to make snarky comments on the internet dismissing something that others find useful because they aren't as technically savvy. But this stuff is important to us because while people have been specifically asking us for many of these features, they've also been asking us to do what simply wasn't possible before 1Password.com: rescue them from sync issues, license confusion, and data loss.

    Listen, I get that you don't personally see a value in 1Password.com. That's okay. You don't have to use it. But I don't get how others having something that fills a need for them harms you in any way. You're free to continue using your existing Dropbox setup. We have to consider all of our customers and focus our effort on what will do the most good for the greatest number of people. Right now that means 1Password.com, and I'm sorry if that makes you feel like we don't care about you. We do, but that doesn't mean that we're always going to do exactly what you want us to.

  • adamloganadamlogan
    edited April 2017

    It was stated that local syncing of the vault would not be rescinded. It was this statement in response to my email from December of 2015 in which I decided to purchase the standalone licenses for 1password on my iPhone, and Mac and Windows desktop OS. I took it as a promise even if it wasn't a promise per se.

    The way I perceive it and undoubtedly others, you've made the first decisive step in strong-arming your users into making a choice to either buy into your subscription-based cloud service, or ejecting from 1Pass altogether and seeking a different solution. I am so disappointed, it was such a long process migrating all my passwords from Lastpass to 1Pass.

    I don't want to have to migrate again. I like your software. I like your vaults for the most part. I do wish that sections could be reordered/dragged around but that's getting off topic.

    I don't like subscriptions, there are too many subscriptions today for every little thing and they add up rather quickly.

    I'd rather not have my passwords on your servers. As secure as your cloud supposedly is, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of hackers would love to have the prestige of hacking your "fortress" and getting away with it. You've already had suspicious activity once. Your team has grown so large it's getting more and more plausible that your system gets compromised.

    Please keep your old customers happy by maintaining the ability to use local or personal cloud solutions for syncing vaults. Asides from home users, there are many businesses that have policies in place that forbid the use of cloud services that are not internal and or hosted by the company itself. There are legitimate reasons why your move is not best for a segment of your customers.

    I would be willing to pay more for stand-alone licenses. I've paid painful prices, as much as $500 for lifetime license/use of a service because I knew I was going to use it, and it serves an important function that is not going to become obsolete anytime in the near future.

    A password manager serves a very important function for me. 1Pass gets nearly as much use as my web browsers and task manager. I use 1Pass to downplay the security risk that if someone gains access to my computer, the browser and OS keychain won't have the passwords to gain access to the websites and services that I use.

    Old users are saying they want this feature to stay. If it's financial reasons that you're ditching it, give us a chance to vote with our wallets. It's bad business to just write us off.

  • Have to say, I totally agree with @adamlogan

    Now if this isn't what AgileBits are intending or wishing to convey, then a bit of clarity and some commitment would go down really well about now. ;)

    Thus far, every response I've read from AgileBits about this has come across as dodging the hard answer and/or having a lack of commitment to a clear answer.

    Sure it's okay that you want to move to a model where you control more of the picture (for ease of use among others), and where you can also be assured of a continuous revenue stream (not sugar coating it, I'm 100% sure this is part of it - and I totally get why). For the average user, this is a great outcome. But please do not abandon those of us who are your most loyal customers and who've helped you get to where you are today. We're also the ones that push the non-technical customers your way.

    So.... Please have enough respect to give us a clear and committed answer to our repeated queries. Because right now it feels like we're being strung along and treated a bit like the proverbial mushrooms.

  • edited April 2017

    @warpspeed I think AgileBits are being intentionally vague so that people don't get the clear idea: they want you to use their cloud service. They have either lost developers or are focusing development time elsewhere (the website) in order to drive subscriptions. Local vault support doesn't meet the goal of bumping subscription numbers. Fixing the buggy website does.

    1Password 6.0 is even super buggy as it is. I'm not sure what happened, but I suspect it's something similar to what happened with YNAB (You Need a Budget) -- The CEO got a marketing executive's bug in their ear and has decided that subscriptions are the way to go. Nevermind that both products have completely forsaken their core customer base that evangelized them from the beginning to where they are now.

    Also notice the lack of reply to your post as of almost 2 weeks. It's obvious where the priority lies.

    EDIT: Well, here we now have a more complete answer:

    Important: Due to upcoming external API changes, we are retiring 3rd party sync options (Dropbox & OneDrive), and simplifying the migration by reworking the import process to handle this step. If you have vaults opened via Dropbox or OneDrive, they will automatically be converted to local folders.

  • The loss of this feature is also called out in reviews of the product, such as this highly respectable New York Times publication, the Wirecutter. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-password-managers/ where many people look when making their purchase decisions or start their research.

    They recommend LastPass for most uses, and do not recommend 1Password for windows users part of it because the new windows version of 1Password does not support vaults. quote from the article:

    In terms of platform support, 1Password is currently an upgrade pick only for Apple users because it doesn’t work on Chromebooks at all, much less any of the lesser-used platforms, and 1Password for Windows is, at the moment, stuck awkwardly between versions. Version 4, the officially shipping build, works fine and includes most of the great features from the Mac version. Unfortunately, it doesn’t support individual, family, or team subscriptions (or the lower prices that go with them), and therefore doesn’t support secure sharing, either. And it has a rather homely, dated user interface.

    Version 6 (see this blog post), which has been rebuilt from scratch, does support subscriptions and sharing and has a lovely, modern look and feel. But support for local (non-subscription) vaults is not complete, form capture isn’t quite working yet, and it’s still missing some security features. To make matters even more confusing, AgileBits is also, separately, beta-testing a UWP version of 1Password, which at this stage in its development has a different feature set from both version 4 and version 6 and is optimized only for mobile devices.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @shlomoid: Sites like that (and that one in particular) are great tools and perform a valuable service for anyone to find products that meet their requirements.

    Our goal has never been to offer something for everyone. It isn't going to be possible to satisfy everyone's needs, so we focus on where we can do the most good for the greatest number of people. I can sympathize because there are plenty of features I myself would love to see in 1Password that perhaps will never come to be. 1Password exists to make it easier for people to secure their digital lives.

    Even if you prefer them, local vaults just don't make things easier for anyone, and managing licenses and sync settings are a huge obstacle to most people using any kind of software, 1Password or otherwise. So we're always going to strive to focus on the things we can do to make 1Password more convenient for people without sacrificing security.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @warpspeed, @adamlogan: This is our commitment: 1Password 4 will continue to receive critical updates. At some point, like any legacy software product, 1Password 4 will stop receiving updates altogether, but we're not there yet.

    But more importantly, as far as support, we haven't ever actually set an official cutoff. If you've purchased a product from us, we're happy to help you use it until you literally no longer have a machine to run it. In that vein, we haven't actually helped anyone with 1Password 1 or 2 for years, but that's because we simply don't hear from anyone running those any more. And that's likely because everyone has long since upgraded to newer hardware that won't run it. We do, however, regularly hear from folks running 1Password 3 still, and I even helped one earlier today. So if 1Password 4 fits your needs, there's no harm in sticking with it, and we're always here to help.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I think AgileBits are being intentionally vague so that people don't get the clear idea: they want you to use their cloud service.

    @wandy_applesood: I don't think we've been vague about this at all: We absolutely believe that 1Password.com offers the best experience for most people, so that's what we're recommending for new customers. If we didn't think this was something that would be valuable to people (ourselves included), we wouldn't have spend the time and energy building it. And frankly the response we've received (present company excluded, perhaps) only reinforces that. For example, I've talked to more people I can count who say that 1Password Families has helped them get their loved ones to use 1Password for the first time. If you don't want to use that, that's perfectly fine. And at that point the only thing you're missing out on is something you don't seem to be interested in in the first place. 1Password.com doesn't take anything away from you, and doesn't impact your ability to use the products you've purchased and receive support for them.

    Also notice the lack of reply to your post as of almost 2 weeks. It's obvious where the priority lies.

    Yep. We're helping folks who need it. That's our priority. If you're having trouble with a product that you've paid for let us know and we'll gladly assist. But at this point we're just going around in circles here. Back to work.

This discussion has been closed.