Standalone Version at Mac Store?
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I see that 1P version 6.6 ("whats new in version 6.6") on the MacStore is now "a free download" and when comes due I pay for a 1P account using a monthly in-app purchase.
Can a NEW customer still purchase a copy outright (no monthly account)? ......perhaps via an alternate in-app purchase selection or via purchase of a different version of the Application from the App Store?
1Password Version: 6.5.3 Mac Store
Extension Version: 4.6.3
OS Version: macOS 10.12.3
Sync Type: iCloud
Comments
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Just trying to understand what the account pricing is in Australia but I am getting crazy results since I already have a purchased copy of 1P on the Mac and on IOS..... its tricky to find out.
Seems the account is $2.99 per month https://1password.com/sign-up/... is this $US ? ...so about $3.88AUD (Australian) if its just a straight conversion...
and according to the Apple App Store the IOS app is $5.99 per month plus a one off $14.99 for pro features (in Australia)
Sorry, I must be doing something wrong. Whats an account in Australia cost in Australian Dollars?
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Thanks mate, your probably right about the pro features I suspect
Q1: Whats an account which provides a MacBook Pro macOS app and an iPhone IOS app and a iPad IOS app in Australia cost in Australian Dollars?
Q2: Can a NEW customer (using the latest still purchase a copy outright (no monthly account) and still sync via iCloud or Dropbox or WiFi.
I ask this because version 6.6 says:
So I am fearful that if a new customer cannot purchase a standalone copy of 6.6 or later, I assume I will not be able to either, come version 7 of 1P.
PS: sorry to be a bother asking this but I cannot tell looking at the Apple App Store of macOS - it just says 6.6 is Free and that it offers in app purchases.
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Per your screenshot, Question 1 is 5.99 AUD/month.
Question 2: Yes, there is an In App Purchase in the Mac App Store version that lets you purchase a standalone (no account) license. From the setup window you would need to create a standalone vault, once you do that it should show you a button in the main UI that says read-only. Clicking that button should take you down the path of buying the standalone In App Purchase.
Rudy
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It's of no direct concern to me, as I have a well-established 1PW setup.
But I think this is an important and much-needed change.
Many people making a one-time purchase then set up 1PW in subscription mode without realising it. The number of questions about this on the forums (and elsewhere, probably) was huge, and AgileBits staff and volunteers like myself were perpetually having to deal with this.
And people who wanted a subscription but liked the App Store found that they had to make a purchase, and then AgileBits had to jump through hoops to help.
Still perhaps the text should not just refer to existing "loyal stand-alone customers" but at least mention that stand-alone version can also be obtained by in-app purchase for new customers.
Three cheers for the change.
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Thanks for the feedback on the wording. I agreed that IAP was needed to get rid of the confusion, so many people trying to unfreeze their accounts by buying the App in the Mac App Store. Hopefully this will reduce the confusion some. The In App Purchases for the standalone only appears if you have no 1Password.com accounts in the app.
Rudy
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Thanks for your response.
The method required to purchase a standalone license at the Apple App Store that you that describe is not very obvious, but maybe thats the intent.
A bit like the way there is no longer any mention of licensed copies of 1P on your web site, and no pricing.
Agilebits is going to have a hard time properly assessing the demand / popularity of the standalone license going forward under these circumstances, but maybe thats the intent too.
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Agree with @rudy.
I was helping a friend of mine install a new copy of 1P and he also wanted the standalone version. We were completely confused by your website's lack of any mention of the standalone copy. He ended up getting a free password manager instead (https://sourceforge.net/projects/keepass/)
Why the obfuscation about the standalone license?
Come on AB, it's really all about the money, isn't it? Go ahead. You can admit it. :(
Marketing department is clearly in control here...
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@mork
Yes its dissapointing.
This crew wasn't like that 5 or 10 years ago.
Still its their company.
They can do what they want.0 -
I've migrated my passwords over to KeyPass (https://sourceforge.net/projects/keepass/) and am ready to switch at any time if there are any further shenanigans from AB.
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Come on AB, it's really all about the money, isn't it? Go ahead. You can admit it. :(
@Mork: Uh...I don't think we've ever said we don't want to get paid. On the contrary, we've always worked hard to make great products that people are willing to pay for so we can afford to continue doing what we love, without having to get other jobs to pay our bills. If that's shenanigans, then I don't know what else to tell you. But if there's a better way to make a living, I hope you'll tell me! :lol:
Yes its dissapointing. This crew wasn't like that 5 or 10 years ago. Still its their company. They can do what they want.
@toasted: It's the same crew, just with a few more faces. I'm not sure I understand where the disappointment is coming from. It sounds like you're a long-time 1Password user, and you have a setup that fits your needs. If so, nothing's been taken away from you, and you can continue using it as you have been. And I'm not sure how it would benefit you to make things more confusing (and technically challenging) for new users. :unamused:
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@brenty
Brenty, You seem to be a bit confused about who your addressing your replies too. You use things I say and respond about them to other people (in this case to mork)
In other posts on this forum you use things others post and then respond in a fairly strenuous if not aggressive manner to me about same.
I am happy to have a discussion with you about all this .. maybe should I post a new forum item and then you can really try to take me to task with some level of clarity.0 -
No worries. Didn't mean to sound "aggressive". Sorry if I came across like that. :)
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You seem to be a bit confused about who your addressing your replies too.
@toasted: Ah, you're absolutely right. Fixed. :sweat:
In other posts on this forum you use things others post and then respond in a fairly strenuous if not aggressive manner to me about same. I am happy to have a discussion with you about all this .. maybe should I post a new forum item and then you can really try to take me to task with some level of clarity.
Now I'm paranoid. If you think I've mistakenly directed other comments toward you, please let me know. Depending on what you'd like to discuss, a new thread might not be such a bad idea — but part of that is me being selfish, thinking that might help me avoid misdirecting future replies. :lol:
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No worries. Didn't mean to sound "aggressive". Sorry if I came across like that. :)
@mork: Sorry about that. I accidentally @ -mentioned you both when replying to you and to toasted. :sweat:
I didn't take it negatively at all, I just found that statement a bit confusing. Hopefully that came across in my slightly-tongue-in-cheek reply, but I wouldn't blame you for being confused too, due to my aforementioned mistake. :dizzy:
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Cool. Thanks for your follow up reply. :)
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Brenty, you say "If you think I've mistakenly directed other comments toward you, please let me know."
"If you think...." really? ......no mate.... I am not making this up.
Take a look at the link below.
See what I posted.
See to whom I addressed my comment.
See what you posted back addressed to me and what you were quoting as though I had said it.
Then re-read your response with a long time customers mindset (mine)Brenty, I have been trying (as some others on this forum have) to get an understanding about the probable future viability of the product FOR ME and doing so without being too pointed on my concerns... Silly me, I didn't want to do anything that might upset the folk at 1Password or voice concerns based on the evidence that I see, in a public forum, that might be unfounded.
But as I write this I am thinking that I will post more specifically on the forum with a new forum item and then you can really try to take me to task.
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To give you a different perspective: I'm a user who originally bought the standalone version, but then decided to upgrade to the subscription model.
Why? Because I love 1Password, it's a crucial tool for my workflow, and I understand that subscriptions are the only way to give AgileBits enough cash in the long run to keep the product alive and kicking, and to get nice new features and upgrades. I do it because I see the value in it, and if I were on the receiving side of said cash, I'd also like to get a steady income (as opposed to big chunks rarely every now and then when there are major upgrades).
So that's maybe one factor to consider when deciding on what model to get. Plus the fact that I find the 1Password Account system to work much better for multi-device sync than Dropbox.
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Sure, I know: simple, hosted on AB controlled servers, no sync setup, pay a bit each month automatically you will hardly notice.... very attractive for many folk.
If AB have to address cash flow issues by charging money every month to use the software so be it. Thats not the issue.
For me, I do not want to be put my login data, credit card information secure notes etc Agilebits honeypot of servers, regardless of how safe and secure it is claimed to be. These claims are based on info thats all very technical - but at the end of the day its just talk - Agilebits offer no guarantees (how could they) - I see no reason that should I take that risk.
And yes I know, my current software still works. And thats not the issue either.
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@ManuCH: Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I do have to disagree with you on one point though (sorry):
I understand that subscriptions are the only way to give AgileBits enough cash in the long run to keep the product alive and kicking, and to get nice new features and upgrades.
This isn't quite true. We could absolutely have continued 1Password as it was, with only licenses and local vaults, but that would have meant slower development and fewer features, not just because of cost, but also because many that we're able to do now (and in the future) with the hosted service just aren't technically feasible otherwise.
So I don't want to give anyone the impression that we need subscriptions to survive. We've done well for the last 10 years, with the support of you and the rest of our awesome customers. But both we and our customers always want more from 1Password, and this is the best way to deliver that on an ongoing basis for years to come.
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Brenty, you say "If you think I've mistakenly directed other comments toward you, please let me know."
"If you think...." really? ......no mate.... I am not making this up.@toasted: Wow. No, you're 100% correct. I blew it. I don't even know what to say. That's incredibly embarrassing and I can't apologize enough. As you point out, I've done that to you (at least?) twice. I am so sorry. :(
Brenty, I have been trying (as some others on this forum have) to get an understanding about the probable future viability of the product FOR ME and doing so without being too pointed on my concerns... Silly me, I didn't want to do anything that might upset the folk at 1Password or voice concerns based on the evidence that I see, in a public forum, that might be unfounded.
But as I write this I am thinking that I will post more specifically on the forum with a new forum item and then you can really try to take me to task.I can't blame you for getting a "take me to task" vibe, given that I've apparently (though unintentionally) singled you out by @ -mentioning you in error on more than one occasion. Thank you for being so kind in taking me to task on this. I'm not upset at all, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off that way. Okay, that's not true. Right now I'm incredibly upset with myself for those stupid mistakes, especially since I've made you feel this way.
I think it's perfectly understandable that you're thinking ahead and trying to get a sense for 1Password is headed, and how that might affect you. But at this time anything we say about licenses for a presumptive new version would be pure speculation. I'm sorry if I've done a terrible job of communicating that...or if my foolishness simply distracted from it. I just think it's best to avid speculation, especially given what's at stake for you.
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@brenty: sorry, I didn't want to give the impression that I think you cannot survive without subscriptions. I probably didn't word this carefully enough.
My point was that I think any company can do even better with subscriptions than with regular one-off licenses. Of course this is not always true and YMMV. In any case, glad to hear you're fine either way :)
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This isn't quite true. We could absolutely have continued 1Password as it was, with only licenses and local vaults, but that would have meant slower development and fewer features, not just because of cost, but also because many that we're able to do now (and in the future) with the hosted service just aren't technically feasible otherwise.
This is what I've seen with other software too. Popular software like Microsoft Word and Adobe Photoshop that kept getting updates or even a subscription model, with new features that hardly anyone used, but often had to buy anyway because of compatibility.
I'm a longtime user too and I've seen more and more features appear and I'm not saying they're not useful, but not always necessary for me. I also like to keep my data local. On the other hand I would like to see features like rich text that, so far have never made it.
I can see it coming that sooner or later – probably at the next 'big' update – we must all switch to the monthly subscription model (or not update to the next version of macOS.. not really an option either) and I also fear that the monthly fee will get higher. I'm not saying it's not worth it's money for anyone, but the higher the price the smaller the group of customers that can afford it. I'm a web designer and I like the functionality because I have a lot of passwords, but I don't like the subscription model. I don't want to pay for even more new features that I don't use. I don't get paid for work per month myself either. Yes, some things like hosting I sell per month but those servers use power, need maintenance and updates and break down once in a while.
Yes, I get paid for maintaining websites, but my customers don't have to pay for a whole new site once every 1,5 or two years. I get the feeling that with 1PW, I pay for new developments, even if I don't want them. If I'm forced to the subscription model, I'll bite the bullet and switch to something else.
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@laptopleon Laptopleon,
Well, there are lots of other crews offering password managers.
Some of them don't require you to put your data on their honeypot server farm.
Some of them are no less safe than 1P.
All of them are cheaper than 1P.I have been using 1P for about a decade, purchased I don't know how many copies direct from Agilebits and on the App Store, recommended it to dozens of people over the years.
Regardless, I am trying alternatives so my workflow won't be interrupted if the next macOS is incompatible with 1P version 6.xx and the macOS compatible 1P version 7 is hosted sync only.
Best to be prepared.
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@ManuCH: No need to apologize. Certainly it depends entirely on the company. Whether revenue comes from licenses, subscriptions, or both, there are plenty of cases where companies don't survive. No matter what, we need to make sure we keep improving 1Password without overextending ourselves, both to keep offering products that people are willing to pay for, but also to avoid overextending ourselves and "burning out". It's a delicate balance, but what we want more than anything is to keep 1Password awesome so we can use it ourselves and continue doing what we love, so suffice to say we're incredibly motivated to continue to work hard to maintain that equilibrium.
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@toasted, @laptopleon: I can definitely appreciate that there's a lot involved in 1Password securing our data that is not particularly accessible or interesting to many people. I think it's also important that 1Password doesn't shove this technical complexity in the user's face. But fundamentally it's fairly simple:
- Your 1Password data is encrypted on your device using your Master Password and Account Key before it is transmitted.
- The server receives only an encrypted blob to store.
- Your Master Password and Account Key themselves are never transmitted.
So, fortunately, the "honeypot" argument just doesn't hold up. If someone gains access to our servers and dumps the full database (we've designed 1Password.com with this in mind), they simply don't have what they need to decrypt it, as each individual user alone has the keys to their data. So an attacker won't have that and can't get it from AgileBits, even if they get everything else, and that makes it rather futile. So while there's a lot more that goes into making all of this work smoothly, this is something that I think anyone can understand and appreciate. :glasses:
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This is what I've seen with other software too. Popular software like Microsoft Word and Adobe Photoshop that kept getting updates or even a subscription model, with new features that hardly anyone used, but often had to buy anyway because of compatibility.
@laptopleon: Those are some good examples. Certainly I've had to pay for software simply for compatibility. But Office is also a really good counterexample: back when it was license-only, new versions still came out with a lot of fluff (in my opinion) that seemed like it was there to fill a bulleted list in order to justify the cost. I'm sure there are folks out there that love "ribbons", but I've always found them to be unhelpful. So I don't think this is a subscription versus license issue so much as a problem that all software companies face: customers won't upgrade or stay subscribed if they don't feel like they're getting something tangible out of it, so we need to make sure we're giving our customers reasons to pay us, without simply padding our release notes. Certainly it can feel that way no matter what if a new version does't have anything that benefits us personally (I don't have a new Touch Bar Mac, for example), so we need to continue to make a variety of improvements, so we each get something special over time. :)
I'm a longtime user too and I've seen more and more features appear and I'm not saying they're not useful, but not always necessary for me. I also like to keep my data local. On the other hand I would like to see features like rich text that, so far have never made it.
Indeed, I think that goes back to my example above, and that's also a great example of a feature I'd use: I'd love rich text editing too (thank you, because I had been talking about this the other day but could not for the life of me remember the term), and I know I'm not alone here. Hopefully it's just a matter of time.
I can see it coming that sooner or later – probably at the next 'big' update – we must all switch to the monthly subscription model (or not update to the next version of macOS.. not really an option either) and I also fear that the monthly fee will get higher. I'm not saying it's not worth it's money for anyone, but the higher the price the smaller the group of customers that can afford it. I'm a web designer and I like the functionality because I have a lot of passwords, but I don't like the subscription model. I don't want to pay for even more new features that I don't use. I don't get paid for work per month myself either. Yes, some things like hosting I sell per month but those servers use power, need maintenance and updates and break down once in a while.
Fortunately 1Password.com users don't have worry about server maintenance. Even in cases where we have brief downtime, data is cached locally in the apps. And while generally we talk of the ongoing costs being for running the servers (storage and bandwidth), and other important thing that users don't have to worry about is that we have a great team maintaining everything and keeping it up to date. And for many people, a subscription is much cheaper than buying multiple licenses for different platforms and family/team members. For individuals, it's still a good deal, and cheaper than a drink at a restaurant — to say nothing of the meal. ;)
Yes, I get paid for maintaining websites, but my customers don't have to pay for a whole new site once every 1,5 or two years. I get the feeling that with 1PW, I pay for new developments, even if I don't want them. If I'm forced to the subscription model, I'll bite the bullet and switch to something else.
Right now, I feel pretty good about having both. If the redesigned new user / first run works out well over time, reducing confusion, I'm not sure I see any reason for us to change that and make everyone move to subscriptions.
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even if they get everything else, and that makes it rather futile. So while there's a lot more that goes into making all of this work smoothly, this is something that I think anyone can understand and appreciate.
Now you're suggesting that it's a plain and logical fact to anyone that well encrypted data can't be broken. I'm sorry, but anyone who looks a bit further into this matter will come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as absolute certainty when it comes to safety of data.
Almost weekly we find out that data or software has been compromised. Last week it was a bug in cloud bleed that leaked data via https. Specially since Snowden, we all know that encryption on itself is just one of the components. When it comes to the heart of the matter, how many of us truly understand encryption techniques and how unbreakable they are? In the past, even the specialist have been mistaken. Even methodes that we assumed to be 'extremely hard to crack' and therefore being too time-consuming, later turned out to be broken, bypassed or back-door-ed.
There are so many factors, even beside encryption itself. For example: AgileBits is Canadian and therefore is generally seen as safer than American products, but only if push comes to shove we will find out how much of a difference there really is between one country's secret service and another. I'm not accusing anyone and I'm a 1PW customer myself, but for example also in Europe I've seen how far intelligence services go to get their info. The US even bugged the data cables of the EU and tapped the 'encrypted' phone of German head of state Merkel. It would be quite naive to think the US are the only ones doing this. These secret services have truly huge resources and no-one knows what exactly they are doing. They are above the law. It's quite scary.
Politics aside, using a central point where all passwords of 1PW users are stored is adding a weak spot rather than making things safer, from a technical point of view. It at least makes it a lot easier to find and collect all logins.
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the "honeypot" argument just doesn't hold up
Goodness Brenty @brenty , you just never give it up do you.
I just think its prudent not to put my data on your servers.
I don’t appreciate the AB responses that imply I just don’t know what is good for me… colloquially… you don’t understand giving us your passwords is better for you and its just so, so safe and simple
“anyone can understand and appreciate”
– but its just talk, Agilebits offer no guarantees (how could they).
Here are a few organisations that failed to keep their customer data safe in the last couple of years. I am sure that every CEO and CTO of these companies said, and still says, they were secure.
Internal Revenue Service
U.S. Department of Justice
UC Berkeley
Snapchat
21st Century Oncology
Premier Healthcare
Verizon Enterprise Solutions
LinkedIn (twice in recent years)
Oracle
Dropbox
Yahoo!
Weebly
LastPass (twice in recent years)
Cisco
San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency
Yahoo
InterContinental Hotels Group
The Office of Personnel Management
JP Morgan
Home Depot
Ebay
NSA (National Security Agency)Criminals are attracted to these sites in part because of the massive trove of valuable data available to be stolen if they are successful….thefts impacted 145 million active users at Ebay, 83 Million at JP Morgan, 177 Million accounts at Linkedin. At DoJ they lost data on 10,000 Department of Homeland Security employees one day, then data on 20,000 FBI employees the next day and so on.
But then again, maybe Agilebits have more highly skilled security technicians and depth of resources than the organisations above. If so, good luck to you.
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