Basic organizational question

rcfrcf Junior Member
edited December 1969 in 1Password 3 – 6 for Mac
I'm new to 1P and I have a basic organizational question. I don't quite get the splitting of information between different vaults. How should I store bank info, for instance? I need bank name, URL, username & password (for web login), PIN (for ATM and phone), checking accnt #, savings account #, typically a number of other accounts, SWIFT code, IBAN sometimes, phone number, etc...

How do I store that in 1P? It looks like some of it fits into the Logins vault, some into a Wallet, and in the wallet there's room for only a single account number. What's the basic organizational system that works so that I have all info for a bank together?

Am correct that there is no way to add new item templates, nor to add fields to existing templates? If that's the case, is it best to store most stuff in a note? Or where should I put data that doesn't fit into an existing template?

thanks,
-r

Comments

  • dno555dno555 Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Well,l i guess nobody will answer to your question . This is the reason i did not switch from Acrylic Wallet to 1Password. But i relay want to.

    1. No Mobile me sync ( they have been promising this forever )
    2.No custom fileds ( Like Acrylic Wallet has )
    3. No custom icons.
  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)
    edited December 1969
    rcf wrote:
    I'm new to 1P and I have a basic organizational question. I don't quite get the splitting of information between different vaults. How should I store bank info, for instance? I need bank name, URL, username & password (for web login), PIN (for ATM and phone), checking accnt #, savings account #, typically a number of other accounts, SWIFT code, IBAN sometimes, phone number, etc...

    How do I store that in 1P? It looks like some of it fits into the Logins vault, some into a Wallet, and in the wallet there's room for only a single account number. What's the basic organizational system that works so that I have all info for a bank together?

    Am correct that there is no way to add new item templates, nor to add fields to existing templates? If that's the case, is it best to store most stuff in a note? Or where should I put data that doesn't fit into an existing template?

    thanks,
    -r


    The choice of VAULT is usually based upon the "template" of information: if it's the login credentials or other information loaded directly into web forms during your day-to-day web browsing then a Logins item is created... preferably by actually using your browser and the 1Password integration to automatically detect a new login form and offering to save the contents for use later on.

    Things that you would normally carry in your pocket, purse or wallet are Wallet items: credit cards, memberships, passport, etc.

    For more examples and screenshots I'd recommend that you see this web pages:

    http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/features.html

    http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/3_minute_expert.html

    We do not provide for customized templates, although that is something that we do intend to do in the future. For cases of having something that we didn't include... say an insurance policy, we'd suggest storing the information in a Secure Note. Every item also has a Notes field for holding information that the existing template doesn't directly accommodate.

    Sometimes the templates don't cover things like you mentioned: multiple account numbers for the same bank. We recommend that you create a separate bank account item for each account number, even though much of the same information is in all of them associated with the same bank. You can create one item with all the "background" and then duplicate it and change just the account number and/or type. If you wish you can just use the similar Title for organization or you can optionally assign one or more Tag to the items: "BofA", "WellsFargo" or whatever is something that you would associate with them later on.

    You can also attach one or more documents to any saved items as well for things like a purchase receipt PDF from a software order perhaps.
  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)
    edited December 1969
    dno555 wrote:
    Well,l i guess nobody will answer to your question . This is the reason i did not switch from Acrylic Wallet to 1Password. But i relay want to.

    1. No Mobile me sync ( they have been promising this forever )
    2.No custom fileds ( Like Acrylic Wallet has )
    3. No custom icons.


    Welcome to the forums, dno555!

    We do make every effort to answer all forum threads and support email contact that is made. In the forums, sometimes it will be someone on the Agile staff, sometimes a forum moderator or a customer just helping out someone else. We welcome contributions from anyone.

    MobileMe syncing was just too problematic for the kind of information stored in your 1Password data file. Our customers had performance and stability issues that simply were too much to bear. We do plan to have WebDAV syncing in the future where you can sync through your MobileMe account but not on the iDisk itself (this is where we found the majority of issues). We offer several options for computer-to-computer syncing today: please see this web page:

    http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/sync_solutions.html

    For 1Password Mac to our various 1Password mobile device apps we offer Wi-Fi syncing.

    As I said in the earlier reply to this thread, customization of the template is something that is on our radar. I'm sorry that we don't have it yet but we want to do it properly... not just tack on a field or two here and there to make a few customers happy. And customizations have to work across to the mobile device platform apps as well -- greatly increasing the effort for us but the value overall to you (even if you're not using a 1Password app).

    It would help to know what kind of "custom icons" are you referring to?
  • rcfrcf Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Marty, Thanks for the reply. I'll see what works for me. I find the concept of Vault rather odd, especially since there are folders. Maybe I'll get used to it.

    @dno555
    I feel your pain. No password app has everything I want. I'm switching from info.xhead. I love the layout, ease of use and organization. But the development has slowed way down, and there is no sync or mobile capability. There's lots of praise for 1P web form filling capability. For me that's not a big draw because the sites that I care about security use a cryptocard or virtual keyboard, or something else that makes form fillin not that important for me. The syncing through Dropbox is more important.

    When syncing with Dropbox, does the whole file get copied? Or are only changed/added entries copied? Also, if I have 1P running on both my laptop and my desktop, and add an entry on my laptop, do I have to quit and restart 1P on my desktop to see the change?
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot
    edited December 1969
    During the inital sync its the complete file (s) / keychain and after that its just changes, additions, deletions etc. I have never had to quit and restart 1P to see changes, because most of the time you will be working from the browser you almost never notice the subtle changes, and the new item just shows up and is there the next time you need it.
  • rcfrcf Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    thightower - thanks for clarifying the sync. That's great. Syncing and 1PAnywhere are big attractions for me. I'm hoping I can get my data in without too much difficulty and figure out the 1P organization paradigms.
  • MartySMartyS AgileBits Customer Care (retired)
    edited December 1969
    rcf wrote:
    thightower - thanks for clarifying the sync. That's great. Syncing and 1PAnywhere are big attractions for me. I'm hoping I can get my data in without too much difficulty and figure out the 1P organization paradigms.


    Please let us know if you have further questions as you start the journey. There is a lot of information in the 1Password User Guide that you might find of interest. Some of it is "fundamentals", of course there are FAQs and some other sidebar groupings that you can read through when you have the time.
  • NikNik 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    rcf wrote:
    I find the concept of Vault rather odd, especially since there are folders.

    I like to give the example of iTunes. In your iTunes library, you have media of different types. You cannot drag a "podcast" item into "video" or "books," just as you cannot (currently) drag a login item in 1Password to the secure notes vault or some other vault. In iTunes, you can create playlists and smart playlists which can contain media of any type, just as you can create folders and smart folders in 1Password that can contain items of any type.

    I hope that helps.
  • rcfrcf Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    Gita,

    Thanks for your reply and the analogy to iTunes. I think I'm getting the idea of using folders and tags to group together vault items that belong together. I can't find a way to get multiple vault items on the screen at the same time. Am I missing something obvious? I've made a few different wallet items for multiple accounts at the same bank. I've got a folder which groups them all together. But I'd like to see them at the same time, since one has the master info for the bank and the others just have specific account info. Also, to log in I can't use the form fill stuff, since I get presented a virtual keyboard. So I need to see my username and password, but that doesn't fit into a wallet.account item. It doesn't really work well with a login item, so I've settled on a generic account. Even the generic account doesn't give me what I need, since for another institution I've got a username, a password and a cryptocard PIN. But generic account only provides username and password, and there's no provision for adding a new field. I can use a secure note, but why not just let me add another field?

    In any case, I guess organizing with folders and tags is what you have in mind, but it still feels rather awkward. To me, logging into my bank and accessing my bank information doesn't divide neatly the way audio and video does in iTunes. I have never wanted to play a movie and play music from the same computer at the same time. But I do need items from different vaults at the same time.

    As I type this I'm starting to wonder if 1Password is going to work for me. I learned in another thread that I can't get the information I need to import my data properly. When I use the provided tools everything ends up in the login vault, and there's no way to move stuff from one vault to another. Maybe this is meant for people who organize differently than I do. I do really like 1Password.Anywhere.
  • DBrownDBrown 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    Hi, rcf.

    Here's how I like to explain vaults, folders, smart folders, and tags as used in 1Password.
    _____
    • Every item in 1Password is always in exactly one of the following locations:
      • Logins vault
      • Accounts vault
      • Identities vault
      • Secure Notes vault
      • Software vault
      • Wallet vault
      • Generated Passwords category
      • Trash


    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) is listed in the All smart folder, which always lists all your 1Password items, regardless of type.

    • Every item can also be listed in one or more smart folders that you defined.

    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) can also be in a standard folder that you created; if it isn't, it's automatically listed in the Unfiled smart folder.

    • Every item can also have one or more tags assigned; if it doesn't, it's automatically listed in the Untagged smart folder.
    _____

    I hope that helps clear things up a little, rcf.
  • martinnelmartinnel Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    DBrown wrote:


    Every item in 1Password is always in exactly one of the following locations:
    • Logins vault
    • Accounts vault
    • Identities vault
    • Secure Notes vault
    • Software vault
    • Wallet vault
    • Generated Passwords category
    • Trash


    I hope that helps clear things up a little, rcf.


    I do try to start with the forums before I post a question and this thread started to address my issue, but I'm still unclear on a few things. Perhaps this should be a new thread, but it seems to follow on the heels of this one so here goes.

    My Unfiled folder has, in addition to new entries I haven't placed elsewhere, every Password I've created and a couple of Software entries that are filed in the Software vault (I hope I'm getting the terminology right).

    If these items are already filed somewhere — in Generated Passwords and Software — why do they also appear here? Am I inputting wrong? Can I delete them from this vault without losing them entirely?

    Martin
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot
    edited July 2010
    No you are doing nothing wrong all of my entires got there as well.

    In general everything will end up there until you assign it a folder, currently I have my folders hidden from view. After unhiding them I will have bunches of items in there not filed. I have tried to get myself away from folders and only use tags. But thats a users choice, when I first started I was #$%^ bent on folders now I am the other way around. For me folders are well true structured. Sounds like a contradiction huh.
  • martinnelmartinnel Junior Member
    edited December 1969
    In general everything will end up there until you assign it a folder...


    Well, that's what I was trying to say, Tommy. I created the software entries by selecting the Software vault and clicking the '+' key so they are assigned and do appear in the Software vault. The passwords, I thought all appeared in a password vault, but now I don't see such a beast so I must have made that up. Still, if I delete a password entry, for example 'Password for aa.com,' does my American Airlines entry lose its password?

    One of the values of this app is organization; I'm just trying to use it in the most organized possible way. And, with that in mind, can you recommend a useful thread or tutorial on how to best use tags? Maybe I'll try your approach.

    Martin
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot
    edited July 2010
    I thought that was what you were trying to say in your post.

    I think you are talking about the generated passwords vault it is hidden by default now, thats unless you enable its showing in the side bar. You can do this in the 1P pref > General

    The items are included in there respective vaults, but they enter the unfiled till you include them in a user selected folder.

    I am an origination freak and hiding the folders makes it much easier for my head to rest at night :lol:

    As for a thread there really is not one, people just add tags as they see fit I have about 40 in my sidebar.

    You can apply tags to multiple items this may help speed things up
    To do this create the tag,
    then ctrl click all the logins you want associated with that login
    drag one of the items (it will appear all are moving) over the tag once you see the background change around the tag release
    all will now get that tag

    My suggestion try this on one or two logins first for example and then move on to more items at one time. This will help you become accustomed to the multiple tagging, and prevent errors it really helped me when I first tried it.
  • NikNik 1Password Alumni
    edited December 1969
    Martin, the two default smart folders, All and Unfiled, respectively display all your data in one place and all your data that have not been filed in folders that you create, as Tommy said. In answer to your question, yes, if you delete an item from these folders, it will disappear from its vault.

    A generated password (Password for aa.com, for example) is separate from your login item. The Generated Passwords vault (hidden by default, check Preferences > General to display) is a safety net. Let's say 1Password didn't recognise the login form and didn't prompt you to save a login item for aa.com. You'd probably have your AAdvantage number written down, saved in a 1Password wallet item, or you could look at your membership card, but you'd have to reset your password because you'd have no record of it. 1Password protects you from this by automatically creating a Generated Password item whenever you use its strong password generator to create and fill a password.

    If you have an aa.com login item, there's no harm in deleting the "Password for aa.com" generated password item; however, if that's your only record of the password, you should create an aa.com login item before deleting it.
  • DBrown wrote:

    Hi, rcf.

    Here's how I like to explain vaults, folders, smart folders, and tags as used in 1Password.
    _____
    • Every item in 1Password is always in exactly one of the following locations:
      • Logins vault
      • Accounts vault
      • Identities vault
      • Secure Notes vault
      • Software vault
      • Wallet vault
      • Generated Passwords category
      • Trash


    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) is listed in the All smart folder, which always lists all your 1Password items, regardless of type.

    • Every item can also be listed in one or more smart folders that you defined.

    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) can also be in a standard folder that you created; if it isn't, it's automatically listed in the Unfiled smart folder.

    • Every item can also have one or more tags assigned; if it doesn't, it's automatically listed in the Untagged smart folder.
    _____

    I hope that helps clear things up a little, rcf.

    I have been reading a number of threads regarding Unfiled and this is the only place (maybe I didn't search hard enough?) that explains how something becomes Unfiled. The answer appears to be that no matter what vault it's in it's Unfiled if it's not in a User Created Standard Folder.

    IMO the information that DBrown has outlined is important enough to show up in the FAQ or somewhere else in the User Guide where it can be readily found.
  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member
    charlie98 wrote:

    I have been reading a number of threads regarding Unfiled and this is the only place (maybe I didn't search hard enough?) that explains how something becomes Unfiled.

    This one was enlightening to me:

    Understanding the "Unfiled" Folder, or "where are my items being stored?"

    IMO the information that DBrown has outlined is important enough to show up in the FAQ or somewhere else in the User Guide where it can be readily found.

    Seems a corollary to the 4th bullet item would be this bug (mentioned in the thread linked to above):

    Right now there is a bug in 1Password that can allow an entry to not be in a folder but not show in Unfiled, …
  • robrob Agile Customer Care

    Team Member
    charlie98 wrote:

    I have been reading a number of threads regarding Unfiled and this is the only place (maybe I didn't search hard enough?) that explains how something becomes Unfiled. The answer appears to be that no matter what vault it's in it's Unfiled if it's not in a User Created Standard Folder.

    IMO the information that DBrown has outlined is important enough to show up in the FAQ or somewhere else in the User Guide where it can be readily found.


    Yes, the "All" and "Unfiled" smart folders are in the "Folders" group, completely separate from the "Vaults" group. "Vaults", "Folders", and "Tags" are three separate ways to find/organize your data and do not depend on each other.

    Maybe I will right up a quick FAQ about it. Thanks for the heads up, charlie98!
  • robrob Agile Customer Care

    Team Member
    sjk wrote:

    Seems a corollary to the 4th bullet item would be this bug (mentioned in the thread linked to above):

    Right now there is a bug in 1Password that can allow an entry to not be in a folder but not show in Unfiled, …


    Just for the record, that bug no longer exists. If you find an item not in a folder or Unfiled, you can solve that by selecting Help > Troubleshooting > Rebuild Data File.
  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member
    RobYoder wrote:

    Just for the record, that bug no longer exists.

    Surprise! :D


    If you find an item not in a folder or Unfiled, you can solve that by selecting Help > Troubleshooting > Rebuild Data File.

    Do you know if that'll change Created and/or Modified dates to the current date? Any other possibly unwanted side effects?

    Thanks!
  • robrob Agile Customer Care

    Team Member
    edited December 2010
    sjk wrote:

    Do you know if that'll change Created and/or Modified dates to the current date? Any other possibly unwanted side effects?


    Created/Modified dates remain intact, and I've never run into any adverse side affects. Glad I made someone happy! :-)
  • sjksjk oversoul

    Team Member
    Unfile count is now accurate and dates are preserved after running Rebuild Data File. Most excellent.

    Have a Happy New Year!
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Happy Rebuilt Data File! :-D

    I'm glad that everything worked out.
  • DBrown wrote:

    Hi, rcf.

    Here's how I like to explain vaults, folders, smart folders, and tags as used in 1Password.
    _____
    • Every item in 1Password is always in exactly one of the following locations:
      • Logins vault
      • Accounts vault
      • Identities vault
      • Secure Notes vault
      • Software vault
      • Wallet vault
      • Generated Passwords category
      • Trash


    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) is listed in the All smart folder, which always lists all your 1Password items, regardless of type.

    • Every item can also be listed in one or more smart folders that you defined.

    • Every item (unless it's in the Trash) can also be in a standard folder that you created; if it isn't, it's automatically listed in the Unfiled smart folder.

    • Every item can also have one or more tags assigned; if it doesn't, it's automatically listed in the Untagged smart folder.
    _____

    I hope that helps clear things up a little, rcf.


    One thing missing though would be the ability to have an item stored in more than one folder (Not a smart folder). Thus the folders are more like Playlists in iTunes where an item can reside in more than one folder. There might not be criteria (Unless you tag the hell out of everything) to combine items into smart lists. A login or wallet item could technically fall under one or more folders or categories.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    …the ability to have an item stored in more than one folder…


    That is exactly what tags are for. :-)

    We could call them "Magic Folders" if it helps. ;-)
This discussion has been closed.