Migration issues

This discussion was created from comments split from: How do I merge duplicate entries in 1Password?.

Comments

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    I have just spent two weeks working on setting up Family 1Password. I had some major difficulties and received help from your support team for which I am grateful. I have spent time convincing others to give 1Password a shot. I've extolled its virtues.
    Now that I have the Family set up, in my private vault some of my entries have 6 to 10 copies (although most have only two or three).
    I have read the pleas above and I just checked - LastPass has a "deduplicator" so why should I not abandon ship? The time spent is gone and I'm ready to cut my losses.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited March 2017

    @k8user: It's something we'll continue to consider, but this isn't something I can promise you, or that is available to you now. You should absolutely use the tool that best fits your needs. I appreciate you giving 1Password a chance, but if it doesn't do what you need it to I'm not going to try to convince you that it does. You shouldn't have to use (and pay for) a product or service you're not satisfied with, or that doesn't deliver what it claims. I think we're pretty upfront about what 1Password offers, but the free trial is good because it lets you decide for yourself.

    That said, it really just sounds like you imported your data multiple times for some reason. It may be as simple as starting with an empty vault and importing all of your data into it only once. How can I help?

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    Well, Brenty, you really didn't answer my question - why is 1Password a better choice than Last Pass?
    I know it sounds like I'm threatening to leave but I'm really not, I'm trying to figure out why I should stay.
    I've been using 1Password since 2010 and I'm getting too old to change.
    You offered to help me start over with an empty vault because you said it sounds like I imported my data more than once. I would like to take you up on that offer.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Well, Brenty, you really didn't answer my question - why is 1Password a better choice than Last Pass? I know it sounds like I'm threatening to leave but I'm really not, I'm trying to figure out why I should stay.

    @k8user: Ah, I'm sorry. You're right. It sounded like you'd already made up your mind, and I don't want to get into an "us versus them" debate since it's your data and your choice. After all, I can really only speak to the benefits of 1Password, and you seemed like you're already aware of them...but since you're asking, these are the things that make 1Password stand out to me, and why I use 1Password myself:

    • 1Password comes with responsive support. I think this is one of the most important aspects of 1Password. Time is money, after all. I hope our replies here are some indication of the kind of customer service you can expect from AgileBits. We are always available to help, whether there is a problem or if you just have a quick question. And we always love customer feedback.
    • 1Password is the only password manager that has ever won a design award. As Steve Jobs once said, “People think it's this veneer — that the designers are handed this box and told, ‘Make it look good!’ That's not what we think design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.” 1Password is an Ars Design Award winner. This comes back to the notion that time is money. If everyone in your family can (1) start using 1Password quickly and (2) easily understand new features when they are rolled out, then you save money on time that would otherwise be lost trying to figure something out or fight with a new version. If price is the only consideration, there are plenty of free tools available, but your time is more valuable than that.
    • 1Password is encryption-based rather than authentication-based. Our security architecture means that a family organizer can recover accounts for other family members. We at AgileBits can never do that. We simply cannot perform a traditional "password reset" for you. With traditional password reset mechanisms, your secrets are only as secure as all your family members' email accounts. With 1Password, account recovery can only be initiated by a family organizer. Learn more in the 1Password Security Design White Paper.
    • 1Password is funded by you not advertisers or investors. Last but definitely not least, we have sustainable prices so we can serve you for years to come without exploiting you or your data. It’s possible for a company to cut corners on pricing, but then they might need investors’ money, a buyer with deeper pockets, or — worst of all — advertising money at the expense of your privacy. We have gone out of our way to build 1Password so that we're not in a position to compromise your privacy or security. It is not merely that we choose not to collect or use data about you; we have designed our systems without the capability to collect data about you. Learn more about 1Password privacy.

    I've been using 1Password since 2010 and I'm getting too old to change. You offered to help me start over with an empty vault because you said it sounds like I imported my data more than once. I would like to take you up on that offer.

    Sure thing! If you really want to start over and have your original data still, just Select All (⌘ A) in your 1Password.com vault and move everything to the Trash. Just be sure not to Trash the data in your original local vault. With that done, view your original vault and verify that you have everyone — and only one each — of your items there. You can then move your items from there into your 1Password.com vault so that's all you'l have there. Once you do that, make sure you don't migrate that same data again on other devices. Since you'll have everything in your 1Password.com account at this point, the simplest way to make sure you've got everything setup correctly on al of your devices is to start over on them and login to your 1Password.com account on each to access your data. if you'll let me know more about your current setup, I can go into more specifics, but that should give you a good idea of where to start. Let me know! :)

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    Hi, Brent, I am still having problems with my duplicate items. Above you said,
    "Sure thing! If you really want to start over and have your original data still, just Select All (⌘ A) in your 1Password.com vault and move everything to the Trash. Just be sure not to Trash the data in your original local vault. With that done, view your original vault and verify that you have everyone — and only one each — of your items there. You can then move your items from there into your 1Password.com vault so that's all you'l have there. Once you do that, make sure you don't migrate that same data again on other devices. Since you'll have everything in your 1Password.com account at this point, the simplest way to make sure you've got everything setup correctly on al of your devices is to start over on them and login to your 1Password.com account on each to access your data. if you'll let me know more about your current setup, I can go into more specifics, but that should give you a good idea of where to start. Let me know! :)"

    I really don't want to start over to get rid of my duplicates (it was a bit of a nightmare getting the data in 1Password). I'd like to export all my entries, throw them onto a spreadsheet, clean everything up, and then re-import to 1Password. Is this possible?

    Thanks,
    Kate

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @k8user: Heya, Kate! Thanks for following up. I hope you don't mind, but I figured it would be better to split you off into a separate discussion so we can focus on getting things sorted with your setup.

    I really don't want to start over to get rid of my duplicates (it was a bit of a nightmare getting the data in 1Password). I'd like to export all my entries, throw them onto a spreadsheet, clean everything up, and then re-import to 1Password. Is this possible?

    I guess you could do that, but it really is adding extra steps (export, ???, import) and more work for yourself. Migrating data in either direction (either to or from a local vault) is just a matter of copying or moving it from one vault to another:

    Move items between vaults

    It doesn't matter if the one or both of the vaults is part of a 1Password.com account, or local. It isn't clear to me from your comments exactly what steps you took and how you have things setup right now, but I can give you an example using my own:

    Right now I have a Primary (local) vault and Personal and Shared vaults belonging to my 1Password.com account. Let's say that I have duplicates in my Personal vault because I'd done the migration a couple of times, copying the same data from my Primary on multiple devices. Here are some things I'd try:

    1. If I don't have a ton of duplicate items (say, a couple hundred), I'd use the Security Audit feature in 1Password for Mac to easily find duplicate passwords, which would also likely correspond to duplicate items. Alternatively, sorting by name along will show me easily if I have more than one item with the same name.
    2. However, it's not always that simple, so if that looks not to be a good option, I can switch to my Personal vault and delete the data there, so I can copy everything over from the Primary vault again just once.
    3. Alternatively, if I already deleted the Primary vault, I can recreate it (enable local vaults in Preferences > Advanced) and restore from a backup (File > Restore) in order to copy everything over.
    4. But finally (and maybe this applies more to your case), if I'd originally imported the data from a file, I could do that again to an empty vault to have a "fresh" copy of all of the data. And if I had made changes to some items after importing originally, I'd sort that vault by Date Modified so I can copy only those items over as well. These will again be duplicates of some of the older versions I'd re-imported, but I'd know exactly which ones they were after copying them over, and could delete the originals, keeping those I'd changed.

    I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that without knowing really any details about your setup or what you did in the first place, but hopefully that gives you some ideas. And please let me know if you have any questions at all!

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    Ok! I think we're making progress!
    Option 1 - no because 584 duplicated passwords
    Option 2 - no, because I had deleted the primary account.
    Option 3 - no, because backups had over 1000 entries
    Option 4 - in progress but now I'm confused again.

    My Primary now has 334 entries. There were only 55 duplicates which explains why some of my entries were duplicated 6 or 8 times. Those are now fixed.

    However, All Vaults has only Primary and Shared. I thought I'd made a new vault but I guess not. How do I get my iPad and iPhone to reflect only this new slimmed down vault? I'm afraid to sync for fear of going in the wrong direction and having triplicate copies.

    Thank you again for your patience.

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @k8user,

    I'm glad one of Brenty's suggestions was helpful for you! You're right, it definitely sounds like there's been some progress here. :)

    However, All Vaults has only Primary and Shared. I thought I'd made a new vault but I guess not.

    The Primary vault is a local vault, and the Shared vault is most likely part of your Families account. You should also have another vault called Personal or Private which is also part of your Families account, although it might not be showing up in the All Vaults view (which can be configured to show only certain vaults). To check which vaults appear in All Vaults, go to 1Password > Preferences, then click on the All Vaults tab.

    To switch between vaults (or to see which vaults are in the 1Password app), you can use the vault switcher menu in the top left corner of the main 1Password app window. At the top of that list will be All Vaults, followed by local vaults (like Primary) and then your account vaults (like Personal/Private and Shared).

    How do I get my iPad and iPhone to reflect only this new slimmed down vault? I'm afraid to sync for fear of going in the wrong direction and having triplicate copies.

    If you have all your latest data in 1Password on your Mac, the easiest solution is to reset 1Password on your iPad and iPhone and set it up again on those devices. But before doing that, it's probably best to make sure everything is sorted out in 1Password on your Mac.

    Ideally, you'll want to have all your items in your Families account vaults. That includes Personal/Private, Shared, and possibly other account vaults if you created any. Primary is a local vault, and you said you have 334 items in it - are those all of the items you need to keep, or are there other items in your account vaults which are missing from Primary? If your account vaults are currently empty, you can simply move all your items from Primary to Personal/Private, and then delete the Primary vault.

    Once you have your items organized and in the account vaults on your Mac, you can reset 1Password on your iOS devices. To do that, open 1Password on your iPhone/iPad and go to 1Password > Settings > Advanced > Erase All 1Password Data (confirm by tapping Erase All 1Password Data). Then set it up again by signing into your Families account.

    Does that help? Please let us know if you have more questions about that. :)

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    Thanks for your response.
    I have no Personal or Private vault. I haven't put anything in the Shared vault yet. Do I need to generate the Private vault or should it be in the "All Vaults" in Preferences?

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @k8user,

    The Personal or Private vault should automatically be part of your 1Password.com account, so it's not something you need to create. If you're signed into your account in the 1Password app, the Personal/Private vault should automatically be listed in the All Vaults preferences (and also in the vault switcher in the top left corner of the app window). If you go to 1Password > Preferences > Accounts in the main app, is your 1Password Families account listed there?

    If it turns out you're not actually signed into any 1Password.com account in the 1Password app, then it sounds like you created a local vault that you named "Shared".

    On the other hand, if you're signed into your account in the app, but the Personal/Private vault isn't listed, please open a web browser and sign into your account on 1Password.com. Once you sign in, which vaults are listed there?

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    I was not signed in. I now have Primary and Shared and under the family name I have Private and Shared.
    I also now have triplicate entries for everything (which is where I started a month ago.)

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Thanks @k8user! That's very helpful: First, it sounds like you do have a local vault which you coincidentally named "Shared" (it's separate from the Shared vault in your Families account). In the 1Password app, please click the vault switcher in the top left corner of the window and select the Shared vault right below the Primary vault. Do you have any items in your local Shared vault? If it's empty and you don't need it, you may want to delete that vault now to avoid confusion (while viewing that local Shared vault, go to 1Password > Delete Shared Vault in the menu bar).

    Next, even though you now see triplicate items, the good news is that they're not all in the same vault. Please click on the vault switcher in the top left corner of 1Password again, and this time select your local Primary vault. You previously said you have 334 items in Primary, so you should only see those 334 items there (i.e. no duplicates or triplicates).

    Now check your other vaults: click the vault switcher and choose your Private account vault. How many items are in that vault? Does it contain any items that are missing from your Primary vault? Click on the vault switcher again and choose your Shared account vault. Again, how many items are in that vault, and are any of those missing from Primary?

    Do the 334 items in your Primary vault represent all the items you need to keep? If all your latest data is currently in the Primary vault, and the Private and Shared vaults only contain duplicate/triplicate copies that you don't need, then you can delete all the items from Private and Shared, and then move all the items from Primary to Private. Before doing that, please make a new backup of your Primary vault by going to File > Backup. Then you can follow these steps:

    1. Click the vault switcher in 1Password and choose the Private vault.
    2. Click All Items in the left sidebar.
    3. Right-click on any item in the item list and choose Select All.
    4. Go to Item > Move to Trash in the menubar.
    5. Repeat steps 1-4 for the Shared vault.

    Your two account vaults (Private and Shared) should now appear empty (the items are actually still in the Trash). If so, you can move your items from Primary to Private:

    1. Click the vault switcher in 1Password and choose the Primary vault.
    2. Click All Items in the left sidebar.
    3. Right-click on any item in the item list and choose Select All.
    4. Go to Item > Share > Private > Move in the menubar.

    At this point, you should have your 334 items in the Private vault, and the local Primary vault should be empty. If so, you can delete the Primary vault because you no longer need it (while viewing the Primary vault, go to 1Password > Delete Vault... in the menu bar).

    Please let us know how everything goes and if you have any questions or run into any issues. Thanks! :)

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    I deleted the wrong (and empty) Shared vault.
    Next I sorted all my items by date, selected the recent ones that were in the big file but weren't in the small file (I keep getting Private and Primary confused - they look too much alike - I can't figure out how to rename them) exported the "new" items from the big file and imported them into the small file.
    Then I made a backup of the small file but it has 1086 items! I'm right back where I was to begin with a month ago!

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @k8user,

    I'm sorry that didn't work as easily as I had hoped! If I understand, it sounds like you had some new or updated items in your Private account vault which were not in the local Primary vault, so you tried exporting those items from Private and importing them to Primary. Does that sound like what you did?

    Without knowing more specific details about all of the steps you took in each vault, it's difficult to know what went wrong or how to fix that, but I believe we can still get everything back to normal. We'll just need to know some details about the current state of 1Password on your Mac:

    • Open/unlock 1Password and click the vault switcher in the top left corner of the window. Exactly which vaults are listed there?
    • If you still have a Primary vault listed at the top, select it, then click All Items in the left sidebar. How many items are in the Primary vault?
    • Click the vault switcher and select your Private vault, then click All Items in the left sidebar. How many items are in the Private vault?
    • Does the Private vault still have new items that are missing from Primary?
    • Assuming you haven't deleted your Primary vault, go to 1Password > Preferences and select the Backup tab. How many items are shown in each backup since yesterday? Does one of the backups show 334 items?

    The more details we know about which vault has which data, the better. Thanks!

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    1) Vaults Primary
    -----------
    Family
    Private
    Shared

    2) Primary (all items) = 353

    3) Private (all items) = 692 (Shared = 0)

    4) I don't think Private has items missing from Primary that I can actually export. Some are documents? It's been a long time since this morning and, sorry, I don't remember what 1Password called what it couldn't export.

    5) Most recent Backup = 1086 (I thought I was just backing up my private file which you guys call Primary. Anyhow, it's the one ABOVE the line. The family name is below the line and under the Family name is Private and Shared. Sorry, Private and Primary look too much alike and have similar connotations in this context. In my world Primary would be the FIRST, the one I started with, and Private would be the part of Family that is mine. Sorry, it just keeps making me lurch to a halt until I figure out which is which EVERY TIME I encounter the words.)

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Thanks @k8user! Believe it or not, that's all really good news, and you're in much better shape than you thought you were. I think you're very close to the finish line!

    I'm sorry the similar "Primary" and "Private" vault names have caused such confusion for you. You won't need to worry about that for long though, because once we get this all sorted out, I'll have you delete the Primary vault, so you'll only have Private and Shared. For now, to help clear up the confusion:

    Primary: This is what we call a "local" (or "standalone") vault. It is not part of your 1Password.com Families account (which is why it's listed separately in the vault switcher). Because it isn't part of your account, it isn't hosted on our servers and you won't see it when you sign into your account on 1Password.com.

    Private: This vault is part of your 1Password.com Families account (which is why it's listed under your family name in the vault switcher). It automatically syncs through our servers, and you'll see it if you sign into 1Password.com from a web browser. As its name implies, you are the only one who can see this vault - no other members of your family can access it.

    Shared: This vault is also part of your 1Password.com Families account, which means it also syncs through our servers, and you'll also see it if you sign into 1Password.com from a web browser. By default, items you put in this vault are shared with your family members.

    Now, getting back to your current state:

    2) Primary (all items) = 353

    Awesome! You previously had 334 items in Primary, so it sounds like it now has those original 334 items as well as the new ones you imported.

    4) I don't think Private has items missing from Primary that I can actually export. Some are documents? It's been a long time since this morning and, sorry, I don't remember what 1Password called what it couldn't export.

    You're correct: 1Password would have shown you a message about not being able to export Documents items. The Documents item category doesn't exist in local vaults, so what you'll need to do is switch to the Private vault and download the files from your Documents items to somewhere on your Mac (like the Desktop). You can either attach those downloaded files to items in your Primary vault now, or you can wait and re-add those files to your Private account vault later.

    If you want to attach a file to an item in your Primary vault, switch to Primary, click the Edit button for an item, and drag the file from your Mac to the 'attachments' field near the bottom of the item details (or click the 'choose file' button to select a file from your Mac). After adding an attachment, remember to click the 'Save' button.

    5) Most recent Backup = 1086 (I thought I was just backing up my private file which you guys call Primary.

    Yes, the backups listed in Preferences > Backup only contain local/standalone vaults. Your only local/standalone vault is Primary, so only the Primary vault is being backed up there.

    The number of items in a backup includes items in the Trash of your Primary vault, so you probably have 733 items in the Primary vault's Trash (353 + 733 = 1086). To check that, make sure the Primary vault is selected in the main app window, then click on Trash in the left sidebar (it will be the last thing listed there). The Trash should show the number of items it contains. I suspect the items in the Trash are just previous duplicates of your items. If you want, you can right-click on the Trash and choose Empty Trash. If you do that, your next backup will contain only 353 items.

    At this point, you have all your latest data (353 items) in the Primary vault, and you should also have downloaded the Documents files from your Private account vault and saved them to your Mac (and possibly added them as attachment in the Primary vault). If so, you can continue with the steps below (just make sure you choose the correct vault):

    1. Click the vault switcher in 1Password and choose the Private vault. (The one with 692 items.)
    2. Click All Items in the left sidebar.
    3. Right-click on any item in the item list and choose Select All.
    4. Go to Item > Move to Trash in the menubar.

    Your Private account vault should now appear empty. If so, continue with these steps:

    1. Click the vault switcher in 1Password and choose the Primary vault. (The one with 353 items.)
    2. Click All Items in the left sidebar.
    3. Right-click on any item in the item list and choose Select All.
    4. Go to Item > Share > Private > Move in the menubar.

    At this point, the Primary vault should be empty, and all your items (a single copy of each) should be in the Private vault. If so, you can delete the Primary vault because you no longer need it. Switch to the Primary vault in the main app window, then go to 1Password > Delete Vault... in the menu bar.

    Sorry for such a long message here, but I think this should get things back in order for you. Let us know how it goes! :)

  • k8user
    k8user
    Community Member

    1) Emptied the trash - now the Primary has 353.
    2) I'm not sure where the documents are - there are 13 categories - all have something in them. Nothing labelled "Documents"?

  • Drew_AG
    Drew_AG
    1Password Alumni

    Hi @k8user,

    I'm not sure where the documents are - there are 13 categories - all have something in them. Nothing labelled "Documents"?

    Are you looking at your Private vault (the one listed under your family name in the vault switcher)? If you are, and you don't see a Documents item category in the left sidebar, that should mean you don't have any. If you really don't have any Documents items in Private, you don't need to worry about saving them.

    However, you previously mentioned seeing an error about not being able to export certain items from the Private vault. If that message wasn't referring to Documents, maybe it was referring to something else. An easy way to check that would be to select the same items (in the Private vault) that you previously exported, and try to export them again. If you see the same message, please let us know exactly what it says, or you could take a screenshot of it (just make sure it doesn't show any personal information). When replying, you can drag the screenshot into your message.

    On the other hand, if you think you currently have everything in your local Primary vault now (i.e. the 353 items), you can continue with the steps from my last message. You'll be moving all 692 items from Private to the Trash, but as long as you don't empty that Trash, you can restore items from there later if it turns out they're missing.

This discussion has been closed.