Confused - which data and vaults to keep

QueFAQueFA
edited July 2017 in Memberships

I have now have a cloud account. In addition I have your app running on Mac and my iphone.

What is the paradigm here? Am I suppose to delete my local (Mac/iphone) accounts and only keep my data in the cloud?

This is confusing.


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • dancodanco Senior Member Community Moderator

    The reason for the confusion is that different people ned different things, and AgileBits is trying to accommodate them all.

    The intention is that most people will keep their data in the cloud, and syncing between devices is automatic. You normally use the apps, not a browser, though. You will need to move the data from the old (Primary) vault to the new vault, but I will leave details of doing that to someone else.

    Some people absolutely insist that they do not want data in the cloud (you could look at various angry posts in these forums and elsewhere if you wanted). They just use the old local vaults.

  • I am wondering about this same issue...I have used (and purchased) the app for iPhone many years ago and have used it on my Mac for ages utilizing a vault that syncs to my password file which lives on Dropbox...I want to put a copy of 1password on a Windows PC I use as well. I downloaded the app and its asking me to log on to an account (which I have never created and don't necessarily want to now...)

    I would prefer to keep syncing to a remote/local file as I have been? Is this "local vault" method of syncing still possible?

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Hi @cempatun - Sorry for the confusion and I'll do my best to clarify. We currently offer to options to use 1Password at the moment - a standalone license for the Mac which you're already rocking and a 1Password membership.

    With a 1Password membership, all of our apps (Windows, Mac, Pro features for iOS & Android) are included even future paid upgrades since it's built into the monthly pricing. You can also access your 1Password data from any device via the web. There is no sync set up required since we take care of all the syncing on our end.

    We're no longer selling a standalone license for 1Password 4 for Windows and 1Password 6 is only compatible with a 1Password membership at the moment. If you want to give 1Password 6 a try on your PC, you will have to sign up for a 1Password.com account since standalone vaults are not supported at the moment. You can definitely continue to use your standalone license for the Mac and continue syncing your 1Password data just the way you do right now.

    But if you decide to test drive a 1Password membership, we include a 30 day free trial to make sure it's the right fit for you. I hope this helped and let us know if you have any additional questions. We'll be here if you need us.

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Hi @QueFA - Great question! If all your data has been migrated over to the new 1Password.com account, you can then delete your Primary vault from the apps. You will use your new Personal vault going forward. Anytime you add a new item to your Personal vault, the item will auto-sync across your devices (as long as you're signed into the account) in addition to the web. If you need any help deleting your Primary vault, let us know and we'll be happy to help out. :smile:

  • That really sucks. I don't want the Membership option. I would like to use the 1password v4 and sync to my vault (I guess the legacy way...) - I downloaded the app to my Windows PC thinking it would work similarly to the way that I did my Mac years ago. I guess not...Well to the Trash it goes

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Hi @cempatun - I'm sorry. If you change your mind in the future about giving a 1Password membership a test drive, let us know and we'll be happy to help out.

  • With the new account version, will I have a local copy on Mac & Phone? Will I be able to store a back up on my local device as well?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @QueFA: Using 1Password.com, your data is still cached in the apps on your authorized devices so you can access it offline. And the server always has a backup in case something happens to your stuff, as well as item history in case you need to revert a change you made. Cheers! :)

  • Good to know. Is it possible to store a back up of the vault on my local computer?

    As well, I currently have a local and cloud vault. They seem to be out of sync as the cloud version has more items. How can I resolve this?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @QueFA: A local vault is stored only on your device and not at all connected to a 1Password.com account, so you would need to backup your data for that. But if you migrate your data to your 1Password.com account from there, you'll have the same stuff on each device where you use only that account, since it will be accessed through 1Password.com.

  • Can you please address this secondary question: I currently have a local and cloud vault. They seem to be out of sync as the cloud version has more items. How can I resolve this?

  • I am not sure about this whole thing either. Why are you calling this membership?
    It is roughly the same price as the licence version for Mac.
    I cannot stand this membership stuff. Let me be clear. If I can't pay next year, all my data is gone, my logins, everything. How is this a good thing?
    I've been using 1Password for years and I can tell you this is a step in the wrong direction. I know Microsoft and Adobe do the same, but they don't have my data. There is no advantage for the user, just for you!
    Adding a travel feature is something you can add to any version (Not sure what would be the advantage or why having it at all)
    Additionally, you keeping all my data. How do you guarantee that nobody cracks your server and gets to all my data. That will only work if you put a lot of effort (and money) into the security part. Over time this money has to come from your clients. That means prices will go up, for something hardly anyone wants.
    Business is based on providing extraordinary service and products to your customers. A membership does not do that.
    However, this step will make space for other companies to fill the void and thats how life goes.
    Sad times...., but sometimes change is a good thing :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Can you please address this secondary question: I currently have a local and cloud vault. They seem to be out of sync as the cloud version has more items. How can I resolve this?

    @QueFA: As I mentioned above, a local vault is stored only on your device. It is in no way connected to a 1Password.com account. So, for example, you would need to backup your data in the local vault(s) yourself (and configure sync on each device if you want it available elsewhere).

    With a 1Password.com membership, everything you store in your account is available in the app/browser on any device just by signing into your account. You can migrate your data to your 1Password.com account from the local vault if you like. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I am not sure about this whole thing either. Why are you calling this membership? It is roughly the same price as the licence version for Mac.

    @JodiSte01: Because it gets you all of the latest versions of 1Password across all platforms without purchasing separate licenses, eliminates sync configuration, and makes secure sharing easy.

    I cannot stand this membership stuff. Let me be clear. If I can't pay next year, all my data is gone, my logins, everything. How is this a good thing?

    Nope. If you decide you don't want to continue a 1Password.com membership, you can still access your data to export it.

    I've been using 1Password for years and I can tell you this is a step in the wrong direction. I know Microsoft and Adobe do the same, but they don't have my data. There is no advantage for the user, just for you!

    You may think so, but those who've actually tried it have found otherwise. 1Password.com has a ton of benefits, and anyone can try it out for free.

    Adding a travel feature is something you can add to any version (Not sure what would be the advantage or why having it at all)

    Nope. We can't. With the standalone app the encrypted data isn't hosted in a central location that can remove it from your authorized devices if you ask it to. You can totally do your own "travel" thing, as I have in the past, but that involves deleting data manually from each device, and then setting everything up again later. I don't miss that at all.

    Additionally, you keeping all my data. How do you guarantee that nobody cracks your server and gets to all my data.

    We don't. We've designed 1Password with the assumption that someone will get your encrypted data. You probably think I'm talking about 1Password.com, but that's not the case. This is how 1Password has always worked: only you have the "keys" to decrypt your data. The only difference is that 1Password.com has the additional security of the 128-bit, randomly generated Secret Key, and we never have that or your Master Password. We go to a lot of trouble to make sure that someone doesn't get your encrypted data from us, but even if they do (or, more likely, they get it from you), they won't have the means to decrypt it unless you give it to them. With 1Password.com someone cannot perform a brute force attack against your Master Password; they'd also need your Secret Key.

    That will only work if you put a lot of effort (and money) into the security part. Over time this money has to come from your clients.

    Absolutely. That's why it's a subscription. We continually improve 1Password and add new features, and customers benefit from that work. Everybody wins. :)

    That means prices will go up, for something hardly anyone wants.

    Earlier you compared the pricing favourably to a standalone license for 1Password for Mac, so I'm not sure I get where you're coming from here. And the folks who signed up for promotional plans when we launched 1Password.com over a year ago are still enjoying the same pricing today, with additional features that didn't exist then. But certainly if you don't see a value in the security or convenience that 1Password has to offer, it won't be compelling for you at any price.

    Business is based on providing extraordinary service and products to your customers. A membership does not do that.

    I have to disagree. If we don't run a sustainable business there wouldn't be anyone here to answer you. ;)

    However, this step will make space for other companies to fill the void and thats how life goes.

    Sad times...., but sometimes change is a good thing :)

    Competition is good. It gives people choice and motivates us to work harder and keep making 1Password better. We love what we do and we're happy to continue doing it thanks to the support of our awesome customers. Cheers! :)

  • Yes, that makes sense thanks.

    I just think you designed the UX incorrectly. Why do I have 2 vaults? Why do you expect your users to delete their local vault? Why don't changes I make to the primary vault update the cloud vault?

    Alternatively a simpler model would have been to turn on a cloud vault, which is just like another device. Instead you assume the cloud vault is the master vault and I should move everything over there. To confuse matters worse, you continue to call my local vault "primary".

    Case in point, I was nervous about deleting my local vault–after all it has all of my sensitive data. So, I kept it and also have the cloud vault. Now they are out of sync with no way of reconciling them. As a side note, having some sorting tools in the cloud UI would allow me to try to manually figure out what the diff between the two vaults.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @QueFA: You'll only have two vaults because you created them. It sounds like you'd been using the local vault first, signed up for a new 1Password.com account which has its own for storing data, but you either didn't migrate your data to the account at all or isn't delete the local vault afterward (1Password prompts for this after migration). It sounds like you intentionally chose not to.

    The problem is, as danco mentioned when replying to you above, that not everyone uses 1Password in the same way. Some folks have a mix, or use one or the other. We're not going to make people's local vaults automatically convert to 1Password.com. Local vaults (and the concept of Primary) predate 1Password.com by nearly a decade. 1Password.com did not exist prior to a year or so ago, so we're not going to throw out something that people depend on just because we've built something new. We believe that 1Password.com is the best option for most people, but it's up to you where you

    Regardless of whether you use only local vaults, 1Password.com, or both, data in separate vaults is separate and can not "sync" between them. The best thing to do would be to choose the vault which has your current data, delete everything from the others, and then just use that — whether that means your 1Password.com vault is all set, or you need to move everything there from the local vault. Ultimately only you can make that call since it's your data though.

  • I get it and thank you for the thoughtful response, but the value for me is to have a cloud-based copy of of my local vault (the same way I have a copy of the same vault on my mac and iphone) and you don't seem to offer that. Is that possible or will it ever?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @QueFA: That's how it works. I think we're getting hung up on terminology. The encrypted data on the server is the "source of truth" so that all of the devices sync their local data with that. That way you don't end up with sync conflicts when making changes on different devices, which is common with file-based sync tools where each device is expecting that it is the canonical copy of the data, regardless of what the others say. ;)

  • Thanks for your reply.
    Of course a business has to be sustainable and for that it needs a business model. But there are many and I don't think the membership model is a good one in your case (or better my case, as I am your customer).
    Regarding security, it hasn't really changed. For it was never the issue that someone might steel my passwords. Why would they go through that process. I haven't got much value attached to it.
    The biggest issue for me is th e loss of my passwords.
    Before it was my choice where the vault is located. I even have it backed up in several locations, just in case.
    If you maintain the vault, I don't have these options.
    If I can see it right than I still have the option to save all details in multiple vaults, that should solve this problem.
    You mentioned if I stop paying next year I stll have access to all my data (your hosted vault). Is that correct?
    That is confusing. What is the difference now between the two models? Beside paying monthly instad of buying a licence?

  • The issue is what brenty mentioned. With the cloud model 1Password.com is the "source of truth". The previous model allows the user to be the "source of truth." I think they assume it is the easiest model for syncing and other technical reasons. In reality if you were to explore it I bet the source of truth could be local to your computer.

    Anyway, it's a take it or leave it proposition. They aren't going to change their business model and the train left the station. What they have done in essence is migrated from a software model to a security as a service model, which probably allows them to pivot further in the future as well. Not hard to imagine that they become your authentication provider in the future. With all of your unique logins in the cloud one simply authenticates w/1pass and they login you to other sites.

    I really do think they could have explained it better, though.

  • I see your point. You're right. I somehow feel a bit fooled by the way they did all this. I actually found out via other sources what is going on. I've been with them for years, bought licences for 4 devices and not a single word.
    I take my security serious which was the reason I got into this in the first place.
    I will investigate further and look at different options. Even options with several vaults. My own (local, dropbox, etc) and their cloud version. As I said, my biggest issue is not that someone might crack my password, but that I loose them.
    Having a different complicated password for each service or product makes it impossible to remember. I don't think I know a single one except my 1Password password. It's a scarry thought actually.
    A service based on a foolproof digital signature could be a good solution (if that exists). In the end it isn't about the passwords, but to make sure only you can access the service and nobody else. Food for thought :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Regarding security, it hasn't really changed. For it was never the issue that someone might steel my passwords. Why would they go through that process. I haven't got much value attached to it. The biggest issue for me is th e loss of my passwords.

    @JodiSte01: Absolutely. That's another one of the many reasons 1Password.com exists, and why we've designed it with features like automatic offsite backup and item history. Everybody makes mistakes, and one that is all to prevalent is not having a backup. As much as it saddens us to hear from customers who've had their device(s) lost, stolen, or destroyed and no longer have access to their most important data, it's even worse for those people. So I'm glad that with 1Password.com people have a backup of their 1Password data without ever having to think about it. For some people, it may never come up. But for those for whom disaster strikes, there's a contingency.

    Before it was my choice where the vault is located. I even have it backed up in several locations, just in case. If you maintain the vault, I don't have these options. If I can see it right than I still have the option to save all details in multiple vaults, that should solve this problem.

    Right. We don't offer sync options for 1Password.com either, because it's built in. So, similarly, there isn't a backup switch, or options to backup redundantly with versioning, because all of that is included. As I mentioned above, the only reason I have an exhaustive backup strategy in place today for all of my data is because I didn't always, and lost a lot because of that. It sounds like you're serious about backup too, but most people never think about it until it's too late. As fastidious as I am, that was me once too.

    You mentioned if I stop paying next year I stll have access to all my data (your hosted vault). Is that correct? That is confusing. What is the difference now between the two models? Beside paying monthly instad of buying a licence?

    With the standalone 1Password app, your data is stored locally and you will only have a backup of it or access to it other places if you manage that yourself. With 1Password.com, all of this is automatic and included. You literally just sign in to your account on virtually any device and can access your data — even if (god forbid) your house burns down with all of your devices in it, which, with the standalone version, would mean you'd have to have a working backup to restore from offsite or you're out of luck. There are a lot of other differences, features that are most exciting to most people, but this stuff is fundamental and important. After all, if we lose our data, the rest sort of doesn't help at that point. With 1Password.com, having your account "freeze" just means you cannot make changes to the data. You can still sign in to access it and export it, as I said before.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    The issue is what brenty mentioned. With the cloud model 1Password.com is the "source of truth". The previous model allows the user to be the "source of truth." I think they assume it is the easiest model for syncing and other technical reasons. In reality if you were to explore it I bet the source of truth could be local to your computer.

    @QueFA: Well in that case, when your computer is asleep, offline, or shutdown, you make changes on another device, and later when the source of truth is available again it overwrites those. This isn't hypothetical. It's why sync services are predominately centralized and hosted these days.

    Anyway, it's a take it or leave it proposition. They aren't going to change their business model and the train left the station. What they have done in essence is migrated from a software model to a security as a service model, which probably allows them to pivot further in the future as well. Not hard to imagine that they become your authentication provider in the future. With all of your unique logins in the cloud one simply authenticates w/1pass and they login you to other sites.

    That's an interesting idea, but it's not something we're working on now. We have a lot more work to do to improve not only 1Password.com but all the apps as well. Definitely food for thought though. :)

    I really do think they could have explained it better, though.

    I'm sure you're right. We've made countless changes to the apps, the website, and our support documentation already, but we're always working to improve it and appreciate any suggestions! :blush:

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I see your point. You're right. I somehow feel a bit fooled by the way they did all this. I actually found out via other sources what is going on. I've been with them for years, bought licences for 4 devices and not a single word.

    @JodiSte01: I hear you, and I'm sorry if you feel "fooled". That's a big part of why we haven't changed things for existing users. You can keep using 1Password as you have been if you want to. We've made many announcements in the form of blog posts and our email newsletter (not to mention Facebook and Twitter), but we don't spam people so you'd only have seen those if you opted in to receiving updates. But I apologize that this left you feeling "out of the loop". :(

    I take my security serious which was the reason I got into this in the first place. I will investigate further and look at different options. Even options with several vaults. My own (local, dropbox, etc) and their cloud version. As I said, my biggest issue is not that someone might crack my password, but that I loose them. Having a different complicated password for each service or product makes it impossible to remember. I don't think I know a single one except my 1Password password. It's a scarry thought actually. A service based on a foolproof digital signature could be a good solution (if that exists). In the end it isn't about the passwords, but to make sure only you can access the service and nobody else. Food for thought :)

    We feel exactly the same way. I'd be lost without 1Password. I hope my answers above are helpful, but please don't hesitate to ask any other questions or clarifications you may be looking for. We're here for you! :)

This discussion has been closed.