Feature Request: When changing passwords on a page, store the new password, not the old one

harrison_caudill
harrison_caudill
Community Member

A consistent problem I end up having with using 1password is that I will either sign up for a new service, or change my password on an old one, and 1password will store my old password, but not my new one. This issue bites me occasionally (as it did again today). Most of the time, I don't notice it is happening until after 1password has removed the new password from the clipboard, and I am left unable to login (as just occurred).


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Referrer: forum-search:changing password

Comments

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @harrison_caudill: If you use 1Password to fill the generated password, it will be saved as a Password item in your vault. I know it's not exactly what you're asking for, but effectively this safety net does just that: stores the new password. Let me know if that helps! :)

  • harrison_caudill
    harrison_caudill
    Community Member

    @brenty I withdraw the request, sir. That is an excellent feature, and completely side-steps what I was expecting to be a difficult problem: figuring out which password to save.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Ah, great! I like the way it's setup now because it doesn't get in the way. But certainly it isn't completely obvious either. Anyway, glad to help, and we're here if you need anything else. Cheers! :)

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    I was having the same problem. Worked around it by copying and pasting the password generator's password into both the website's new password fields and the 1 Password password field. Not convenient and after the first failure to save a new password it requires going through the "forgot password" procedure on the website in question for a second try. So with the above information I have found the stored passwords that have been entered by the password generator. So now if it fails to save the new password in the login for 1 Password I can just copy and paste the stored password in the passwords archive in the vault into the 1 password login password field and just try the website again. Do I have all that correct?
    But it's still unclear to me what the clipboard does, where it is, how to use it, and whether or not it has anything to do with this issue. Can you explain?

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    I was having the same problem. Worked around it by copying and pasting the password generator's password into both the website's new password fields and the 1 Password password field. Not convenient and after the first failure to save a new password it requires going through the "forgot password" procedure on the website in question for a second try. So with the above information I have found the stored passwords that have been entered by the password generator. So now if it fails to save the new password in the login for 1 Password I can just copy and paste the stored password in the passwords archive in the vault into the 1 password login password field and just try the website again. Do I have all that correct?

    @henryturkel: Yep, that's correct! 1Password saves Password items for generated passwords you use for just that sort of situation.

    But it's still unclear to me what the clipboard does, where it is, how to use it, and whether or not it has anything to do with this issue. Can you explain?

    The "clipboard" is just part of the operating system. When you copy text, that's where it's stored so you can paste it somewhere else. I hope this helps! :)

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    HI Brenty - Still not working for me. Sometimes 1 Password saves the new password that it has filled into the website's change password fields when it asks me if I want to save the new password. Sometimes it doesn't. It never works to use the paste function to enter it from the clipboard whether or not I click "save to clipboard before filling". I now have the clipboard set to clear after 900 seconds in preferences and it still doesn't work to paste. Today I did one change and had to go to "passwords" to recover it, copy it, and paste it. that did work. I then did a second account at the same website (different ID and password for the login - one was my account and one my wife's). This time same thing but when I went to "passwords" the second password was not there and the first had disappeared as well. Help!

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @henryturkel - So, this gets into the weeds a bit about how 1Password saves items (or, sometimes, doesn't). Essentially, there are about as many specific ways to arrange a login page as there are grains of sand on a beach. Each one is a little bit different, and although there are some broad similarities and you'll see certain patterns repeated often from website to website, there are always a handful of sites which cause 1Password's filling (or saving) logic some problems. Without getting into a dissertation on all the reasons that can happen, suffice it to say that there are indeed infrequently times when 1Password won't correctly fill a login or offer to save when it should.

    When that happens, it helps us tremendously if you can let us know - either here on the forum or, better still, via direct email at support@agilebits.com. We can often either write a rule for a particular site or sometimes even change the overall logic of filling/saving -- but we can't test every site on the internet, which is why we rely on users to let us know when there's a specific site that's causing 1Password to misbehave (or not behave at all).

    However, all passwords generated should be saved -- because they're not dependent upon whether 1Password can fill them or not. As soon as you generate a password and click either "Fill" or "Copy," 1Password will generate and save that password to the Passwords category in 1Password for Mac. It doesn't matter whether 1Password was able to fill the form or not; the act of clicking either Fill or Copy is what matters.

    Having said that, a couple of things come to mind: first, open any webpage's login or change password form, put the cursor in the password field, and bring up 1Password's password generator. Click the drop-down that says "Fill" as a default, and make sure the option "Copy to clipboard before filling" is checked. If it isn't, that would certainly explain why you can't paste. Let us know what you discover there.

    In regard to generated passwords that have gone missing, the best way to check is to switch to the Passwords category in the left sidebar of 1Password for Mac, then click the sort-order drop-down at the top of the column of generated passwords, switch it to sort by Date Created and make sure it's sorting from Most Recent to Oldest. You should see the last password you generated at the top of that list. If you don't sort by creation date, sometimes you can miss items because they're not saved with the information you expect, so an alphabetical sort, for instance, won't produce the expected results. Let us know how/if that works for you.

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    Thank you, Lars, for that very detailed and specific explanation. You guys are great and I do love 1 Password in spite of any problems I'm having.
    1) I do understand that there are idiosyncrasies from one website to another that are unavoidable. I will let 1 Password know if encounter any that are not resolvable with the fail-safe mechanisms you and Brenty have provided.
    2) I arranged the archived passwords by date created and that should make it much easier to access them.
    3) I just tried what you suggested re "fill" and "copy to clipboard before filling". And I feel like an idiot because I now realize that rather than just clicking "fill" button each time I had been clicking the button to open the drop down menu next to "fill" and then clicking on "copy to clipboard before filling" and then clicking "fill". I had not noticed that there was a check mark preceding "copy to clipboard before filling" and I was therefore un-checking it before clicking on "fill". Thus no saved passwords.
    4) I guess I can now reset the time for saving items on the clipboard from 900 seconds back to something more reasonable. Is there a downside to a long save time?

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni
    edited October 2017

    @henryturkel -- thanks for the kind words! And no need to feel like an idiot -- people sometimes interpret things differently, and it's our job to make sure our instructions and UI are as clear as possible to as many people as possible. Glad I could help you understand what was misfiring in this case.

    The disadvantage of a long delay before clipboard-clear is, of course, someone getting hold of your clipboard contents when they contain a sensitive bit of data from 1Password, whether it be a login password, a bank account number or anything else you might've copied from 1Password to the clipboard. If you live alone or you trust all the people you're with implicitly, then there's probably not too big a risk to it -- unless the Mac you're using is a laptop which you take with you. If you're at an internet café or a hotel lobby's wi-fi, you might not remember you'd left yourself so wide-open and turn your back or return to the counter, and well, you get the idea. Shorter is better, in general. But if it aids your process to have copied data available for longer, that's why we make that timeout adjustable. :)

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    Hello Lars,
    More questions for my wife who is using 1 Password too on her PC with our family account.
    1) Her 1 Password main window looks essentially the same as mine on my Mac. Has all her logins visible when she selects all vaults and clicks on "logins" in the pane on the left. Everything else is pretty much comparable. But when she goes to the small window using the browser extension in Chrome it defaults to "logins" but there is nothing there. She can access all the logins by going to "all items" but the next time she opens it it's back to empty "logins". In addition I have to say that the small window is not user friendly like mine is in the Mac where I can hover over a category and open an adjacent window with all it's the category's contained items. On the PC just icons in the left tool bar without labels so until you use it a lot you have to guess what you're opening each time. Solutions?
    2) She uses eBay a lot and pays with Paypal. Has both of them entered into 1 Password. Her Paypal is linked to eBay such that when she goes to checkout in eBay it sends her to Paypal to log in and authorize the payment, then when that is done it automatically goes back to eBay (to which she is already logged in) to finish the transaction. When eBay first sends her to Paypal she sees a small login window that opens superimposed over the bigger Paypal window after clicking on a box that just says log in. But when she goes to 1 Password's Paypal login to login it opens a new browser window instead and though she will be logged in there she will not see the transaction she is trying to complete. She tried enlarging the small window to full screen before using 1 Password to log in but got the same result. Eventually she just entered her ID by typing that in then copying and pasting the password out of 1 Password and into the password field for the Paypal login. She can continue to do this but it's cumbersome. Is there a ready solution? Would logging in using the large (none browser extension) 1 Password window rather than the browser extension solve this? Would a solution to question number 1 resolve it? (I.e., is it related to logging in from "all items" instead of "logins"?)
    Henry

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @henryturkel: Thanks for following up, Henry! I wanted to jump in here since I'm more of a Windows guy than Lars is. ;)

    But when she goes to the small window using the browser extension in Chrome it defaults to "logins" but there is nothing there. She can access all the logins by going to "all items" but the next time she opens it it's back to empty "logins".

    When you open the 1Password browser extension in the browser using the mouse or Ctrl \, it will show logins matching the current URL. As you noted, All Items will show you everything (and this is the default when using 1Password mini Ctrl Alt \ outside of the browser)...but you can also simply start typing to do a search any time you access the 1Password mini window, in or out of the browser. Give that a try. :)

    In addition I have to say that the small window is not user friendly like mine is in the Mac where I can hover over a category and open an adjacent window with all it's the category's contained items. On the PC just icons in the left tool bar without labels so until you use it a lot you have to guess what you're opening each time. Solutions?

    Windows has its own niceties, but the cute menuing system from the Mac is not something it supports. We tried to emulate this with older versions of 1Password for Windows, but it was not as fast or reliable as we want it to be. So we're using the native Windows meaning now. That said, this design isn't written in stone. You can get tooltips for each menu item by hovering, and we'll continue to improve the design in future releases, so let us know if you have suggestions — however, "make Windows like macOS" is not something we can do for you. ;)

    When eBay first sends her to Paypal she sees a small login window that opens superimposed over the bigger Paypal window after clicking on a box that just says log in. But when she goes to 1 Password's Paypal login to login it opens a new browser window instead and though she will be logged in there she will not see the transaction she is trying to complete. She tried enlarging the small window to full screen before using 1 Password to log in but got the same result. Eventually she just entered her ID by typing that in then copying and pasting the password out of 1 Password and into the password field for the Paypal login. She can continue to do this but it's cumbersome. Is there a ready solution? Would logging in using the large (none browser extension) 1 Password window rather than the browser extension solve this? Would a solution to question number 1 resolve it? (I.e., is it related to logging in from "all items" instead of "logins"?)

    It is, but not in the way you think. The size/shape of the window doesn't matter; the website address is everything. 1Password protects you from phishing attacks by only filling a Login on websites matching the URL(s) you have saved for it. So while I appreciate that she may very well want to fill login credentials for paypal.com on ebay.com, generally doing something like that is a really bad idea. There are a couple options:

    1. Copy and paste login credentials if you're sure you want to enter them on a website other than the one they belong to — again, this is probably okay in this case, but 1Password filling paypal.com credentials at paypaI.com (that's a capital i there) would be bad, so 1Password won't so it.
    2. Save the ebay.com website URL in the PayPal login, along with paypal.com, so that 1Password can fill on both.

    It's up to you to decide on a case-by-case basis if these are things you want to do. We don't want 1Password filling login credentials just anywhere by default. I hope this helps! :)

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    Thanks, Brenty. Very helpful.
    Re use of the 1 Password browser extension: I understand it better and will try all those options including just typing to bring up a login which sounds slick and likely the easiest way to get where you want to go. It doesn't need to work like my Mac as long as we can make it work.
    Re the eBay/Paypal issue: I think that eBay was actually sending us to PayPal via a link rather than having us log in within eBay. I'll check that out by trying it again and checking the URL when we are asked for a login for Paypal to verify the transaction. Either way it would seem that the critical issue was a mismatch between the URL of the window on the screen and the URL of the login recorded for it in 1 Password. (I had set up the Paypal login for her by going to the Paypal site directly rather than through eBay.) I've noticed in entering logins since I began using 1 Password that some websites (companies) will have slightly different login pages depending on how you got to the login page (slightly different URLs). That may be the case here where there is a general login for Paypal and a login for Paypal specifically to confirm a specific transaction through eBay. In any case an easy solution is to just create a second Paypal login for her to use when making a purchase with Paypal on eBay and a separate one for logging in to Paypal generally after confirming that the URLs are in fact Paypal.
    Thanks again, Henry

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Thanks, Brenty. Very helpful. Re use of the 1 Password browser extension: I understand it better and will try all those options including just typing to bring up a login which sounds slick and likely the easiest way to get where you want to go. It doesn't need to work like my Mac as long as we can make it work.

    @henryturkel: You're welcome, and thank you for your honest feedback. There's definitely room for improvement. :blush:

    Re the eBay/Paypal issue: I think that eBay was actually sending us to PayPal via a link rather than having us log in within eBay. I'll check that out by trying it again and checking the URL when we are asked for a login for Paypal to verify the transaction. Either way it would seem that the critical issue was a mismatch between the URL of the window on the screen and the URL of the login recorded for it in 1 Password. (I had set up the Paypal login for her by going to the Paypal site directly rather than through eBay.) I've noticed in entering logins since I began using 1 Password that some websites (companies) will have slightly different login pages depending on how you got to the login page (slightly different URLs). That may be the case here where there is a general login for Paypal and a login for Paypal specifically to confirm a specific transaction through eBay. In any case an easy solution is to just create a second Paypal login for her to use when making a purchase with Paypal on eBay and a separate one for logging in to Paypal generally after confirming that the URLs are in fact Paypal. Thanks again, Henry

    Definitely let me know the specifics — OS, 1Password, browser, and extension versions, and the URLs involved! I have an account for each and will be happy to investigate in this case...and we're always willing to do the same for other sites where you have trouble. :sunglasses:

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    OS is Window 7
    1 Password version 6.8.3 (683005)
    Chrome version 62.0.3202.75
    1 Password extension version 4.6.12.90
    URL for eBay login in wife's 1 Password vault is: https://signin.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll
    URL for general login to Paypal in wife's 1 Password vault is: https://www.paypal.com/uk/signin
    I won't know the URL that pops up when asked to verify a charge in eBay and it sends you to a Paypal website until we do that again.
    Whoa!!! I think I may have just noticed a possible source of the problem. The URL for the general Paypal login that I noted above I got by doing a google search and seeing a URL for login to Paypal but now see that that is a U.K. URL. If you Google it there are separate logins for UK and for USA. The URL for the latter is: https://www.paypal.com/login. If I enter that and go there it autofils my wife's ID and adds more to the URL. Perhap using the login for the wrong country on my part was the cause of the mismatch.
    I will change the URL for Paypal to the correct one and see if that works next time she buys something. Or try a purchase and cancel it before finalizing it.

  • henryturkel
    henryturkel
    Community Member

    Brenty - we just did a purchase through eBay using Paypal and the URL for that login screen was different than www.paypal.com/login. I entered the URL for the window that came up when my wife was in eBay and clicked on "purchase with Paypal" into the URL field in the 1 Password login for Paypal and that worked to complete the transaction sending us back to eBay immediately thereafter. Shortly after we got emails, one from eBay confirming the transaction and one from Paypal confirming the transaction. I then created a second login using www.paypal.com/login as the URL and it sends me to her Paypal account page. I think we have it worked out unless you think there is something wrong with doing it this way. Thanks again for this rather complex and long discussion.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited October 2017

    Whoa!!! I think I may have just noticed a possible source of the problem. The URL for the general Paypal login that I noted above I got by doing a google search and seeing a URL for login to Paypal but now see that that is a U.K. URL. If you Google it there are separate logins for UK and for USA.

    @henryturkel: That shouldn't make the different since both are paypal.com, rather than one being paypal.co.uk or something. 1Password will offer you the same login for both www.paypal.com/uk/signin and www.paypal.com/login — but I am glad you pointed that out, because I wasn't aware that there was any difference for the UK!

    Brenty - we just did a purchase through eBay using Paypal and the URL for that login screen was different than www.paypal.com/login.

    I'd love to know what the URL was. If it has paypal.com in it it won't make a difference, but it's possible that it's an ebay.com URL during their checkout process since they owned PayPal until relatively recently.

    It sounds like everything worked out, but we're here if you encounter any further issues. :)

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