Exports omit some fileds

shishishishi
edited November 2017 in 1Password 4 for Windows

I tested some times exporting, I found 1Password can't export perfectly

For example a entry which's web form detail has "username" field, "password" field, "menu-select" filed. I export this item, then "menu-select" field is gone in a exported document. This happen both csv and txt. I tested other items too, exported csv's password field name is unstable and some fields are missing. Missing fields depends on items apparently.

Other applications can't handle this. This means users are locked in and export feature have no meaning. Is this a bug or intended feature?


1Password Version: 6.8.473
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @shishi: Thanks for reaching out. I’m sorry for the confusion! Most apps support CSV, so we thought it best to start with that. I'm not sure what you mean by "Other applications can't handle this." But CSV is not 1Password's native format. We will be adding 1PIF support in a future update though.

  • I don't say about csv format itself. Exported contents by 1Password. I'm programmer. I believe I have programming knowledge.
    Please see yourself exported csv.

  • We will be adding 1PIF support in a future update though.

    It's good thing. It seems other password manager applications expect 1Password export 1PIF not CSV or txt, If it's not corrupt.

  • Mainly I mind about field name is not certain. It should export url to url, username to username, password to password. It's horrible sometime export password in password1, sometime password in password2.

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @shishi: I'm not able to reproduce any problems with exporting usernames or passwords to CSV. I picked several items at random from my vault and all exported properly. Now, since I threw in some non-Login items, this does make the document a bit of a mess because there are tons of extra fields only used by particular item types. Take my wireless router for example -- I have two custom password fields here for the 3G and 5G bands on my router, which export to their own column so that I'm able to keep my custom labels. If I were switching password mangers, this likely would cause me some fuss, but it was my decision to use custom fields to label these as I wanted which caused this. Custom fields are always going to cause a bit of a problem, but to combat the lengthy list of fields, I recommend exporting only like items at the same time (i.e. - all Login items together and all Secure Notes together, etc.). This way your list remains a bit shorter making your CSV easier to read. :chuffed:

    I also do see a checkbox state that didn't exported. In my case, it was a "Save Username" checkbox I wanted unchecked for a particular Login item. While it would be nice to be able to import these states elsewhere, I don't think checkboxes will ever lock me into using 1Password forever. It would just mean I'd need to allow my new password manager to update that Login to save the proper form details in the future. I can sign in to my bank account with or without that checkbox properly filled out, so that's all good by me. That said, I'm not entirely certain whether certain form details are intended to be exported. The form details which can/should be saved by any given password manager depend on the given program's filling logic and it may be that we're omitting them because they're likely to muck up the works leaving you with extraneous information in your Login item when importing elsewhere. Or, yes, it could be that we mucked something up in this beta and they're intended to all be there. I'll definitely check with the development team to be sure and get an issue filed for this if it turns out we should be exporting these additional form details. :+1:

    Finally, while we certainly hope you never want to leave us and don't need to export anything, preventing lock-in is huge for us. Choosing a password manager is very personal and it's paramount that you be able to freely choose which one to use based upon your needs, even if you choose someone else. Exporting is definitely a big part of that, but so far as I can tell with my own items, CSV export is working properly. Of course, if you can provide any more details that might help us pinpoint why you're seeing some inconsistency here, we'd be happy to take a closer look.

  • Thank you for trying.

    How about this form? https://vault.bitwarden.com/#/

    I think you'll get "MasterPasswordHash" field as password field. Because this input filed name is "MasterPasswordHash". And that name is not able to control myself. Some webiste form name is "password", some webiste form name is "password2". These are not controlable also.

    But 1Password use these name when exporting directly. You said using custom field is own decision, I don't think so. It's automatic.

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @shishi: Thanks for the example! I see what you mean. It looks like I managed to pull several items all of which had rationally named form details, which prevented me from fully understanding the root issue here. It's not that details are omitted, so much as they are not always given generic names that make sense in the context of what you'd expect to see when looking at your data in plain text. I do see that you get field names based off the web form details here, whereas my mention of custom fields was specifically related to an item I knew I'd entered custom fields for. In that case, you definitely have a choice, but not so here.

    I'm not sure if that is intentional, but having the form details correct does matter for filling so I strongly suspect it is. Importing such an export into 1Password doesn't work, but the rationale here is that if you want to move your data to a new 1Password app, you'll sync it rather than importing (or you'll import your vault in its native Agile Keychain or OPVault format, in the case of coming from 1Password 4 for Windows to 1Password 6 for Windows). The goal of an export is to give you sufficient information to move your data elsewhere should you choose and, in this case, the web form details may be important.

    On the import side of things, we have a very specific way CSVs need to be formatted in order to import properly. We do this because different password managers will export CSVs differently and we can't possibly build a native importer for every one that exists. We've built specific importers that account for this for popular password managers, but doing so for everything would be a monumental task we'd have no chance of completing.

    Much in the way we can't build a native importer for every password manager in existence, we also can't build an export that will be compatible with every password manager in existence as there really isn't any standard here. Luckily (for us and our customers), 1Password is popular enough that many password managers have built an importer compatible with our exports. The snag here is that I'd imagine most are for 1PIF and, indeed, 1Password 6 for Windows doesn't export 1PIF just yet. This is definitely an area we want to improve on and we do plan to implement 1PIF export in the future.

    Once 1PIF is implemented, you'd likely only export to CSV when you're wanting to import into an app that doesn't support importing 1PIF and thus likely doesn't have a native 1Password importer. In these cases, a generic CSV displaying only basic information, would be less helpful as it doesn't include those important filling details like the web form names. The current CSV export will likely require some tweaking, but it's more likely to include all of the information you'd possibly need to have your import work properly out of the box, whereas generic username, password, URL and title data would be insufficient on its own most of the time. We're more than happy to provide options to get your data out of 1Password, should you choose, but there is a limit to how easy we can make the import process elsewhere as much of this is out of our hands, so we err on the side of information overload to give you an opportunity to create a file that will work for whatever app you so choose.

    So what does this all mean for you? It means exporting really isn't a good way to keep an offline local copy of your data without some reformatting. We hope to improve upon this with better local backup options down the line, but presently feel most backup needs are covered by the features of your account (server backup, your local cache, and Item History) so this isn't something we're actively working on at the moment. It also means you may have some additional work on your hands if you're switching password managers and only have access to 1Password on Windows. As I mentioned before, we hope to improve upon this by adding 1PIF export down the line, but for now this is the best way to ensure that you have all the information needed to take your data elsewhere, no matter where that might be.

    Ultimately, the goal of providing an export is to ensure you can do just that. We have room to improve, to be sure, but I hope you understand why things are as they are right now. I'll certainly pass your feedback along to the development team, though, and definitely do look to see improvements in exports in future releases. :chuffed:

  • shishishishi
    edited November 2017

    I understand 1Password team working for exporting feature, OK. But 1Password exporting feature have so limited for now, right? It's important I can now or not. I don't know a password manager which can import csv don't use generic password field.

    I really don't like locked in, but I edited and added many logins already in 1Password, so I've locked in virtually. It's my fault I thought 1Password can export my data as same as other password manager do.

    I have no choice, I'm waiting exporting feature. I'm very looking forward that.

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @shishi: I guess I'm not following what about the current export format leads you to feel as though you're locked in to using 1Password. I appreciate the desire for easier importing elsewhere, but again, what formatting is needed will vary no matter how we export as the import step is outside our control. No export will be perfect everywhere and the most we can do is ensure that your data is able to leave 1Password in its entirety, which the current exporter does accomplish. Again, there's room for improvement and some are planned, but no export format is going to be perfect wherever you take it.

  • shishishishi
    edited November 2017

    I have never asked perfect exporting and importing. Just as username to username, password to password like as other password manager do. Other password manager also has field name (like "MasterPasswordHash"), but export to "password" field.

    Only 1Password 6 Windows can't this as far as I know.

  • I'm sorry I've asked that. But I want it's not be perfect quality (I know there is not perfect export), just minimum necessary quality.

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @shishi: No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to imply either that you're being greedy nor that what's currently available is exactly what we want to be providing. 1Password for Mac, for example, already handles this better as does 1Password 4 for Windows and we do want to get 1Password 6 on board here. I just don't want you to think we're hiding your data from you in any way. While the formatting of your export may not be what it should be, it absolutely should still include everything you've saved in 1Password and when you mention being locked in, it makes me think something somewhere is missing. Exports from 1Password 6 are something that need addressing, but if any information is genuinely being completely omitted, that's a more urgent problem so I'm being a bit pushy about making absolutely sure that's not the case. My apologies if it came across differently. That was not my intent. :blush:

  • hi. I'm experiencing a similar, if not the same, issue as the shishi. I'm just starting with 1password and have noticed that some fields are not exported (to CSV or TXT, I've not tried with the 1pif).

    One example of a failed export is the "1Password Account" entry that is generated when an account is created. When I export this item, the Secret Key field is not included.

    I then followed up on that and added a second password field to a different existing login item and any fields related to adding this second password did not export -- Section field, password name, the password, label.

    I can send screenshots and the example if that's helpful

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Sorry for the trouble there. Indeed, the "welcome package" items created when you sign up for a 1Password.com account are highly customized. I'm not sure why you would want to export your account credentials to plaintext like that, but it's something we'll have to take into account as we build support for 1PIF. CSV is fairly basic and not designed for heavy customization (which is why you're having a similar issue with the custom fields you added in the other item). I'm not sure we'll be able to support all of that in CSV as other apps will choke on the output, but it's definitely something we'll be addressing with 1PIF since that supports all of 1Password's data structures. Thanks for the feedback on this!

  • the issue is not that I want that particular entry, but that case -- There are instances where there are two passwords associated with a resource (or even two log ins). Regardless of the reason, I believe it is reasonable to expect that an export of an item would export all the visible elements.

    I'm evaluating 1password as a replacement for secret server for numerous organizations (i've been recommending that, but a getting a little tired of maintaining multiple servers). As I'm looking at importing thousands of passwords with many with custom fields, I want to be able to make sure that the data I have will be faithfully imported and then exported.

    Getting all my data out of SS was trivial. I expected there to be some clean up work on the import, but knowing that can't get it out cleanly (as you've intimated) is problematic. I believe that this is what the original poster was referring to as being locked in to 1password.

    I would add a vote to a full csv export as a feature. For now I am bummed out about this missing feature and find myself backing away...slowly. I'll keep looking back though.

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    @empanadas_yum, thank you for your detailed response! :+1:

    We definitely need to improve the export experience in 1Password for Windows and your feedback about it is much appreciated. As Brenty mentioned above, we will look into it, when we build support for 1PIF in addition to CSV we have now.

    Please let us know if there is anything else we can help you with. Thank you!

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • Wanted to mention a similar issue with CSV exports. (On a Mac, version 7. I see this is tagged for Windows but seems an appropriate thread.) I'm just trying out 1Password and want to know what my options are for getting out (as I'm probably going to do with my current service since I'm loving 1Password), as well as keeping my own encrypted backups.

    One feature I like is custom fields, and I've been experimenting with having security questions as password fields, but in the csv export, these don't appear at all. (I had selected all fields.) There are some other issues but this is the most concerning one.

    However, the 1pif json export looks fantastic and I'd prefer this over csv anyway. So why bother digging up this old thread? I think because I'm so impressed with the service and it was a bit disheartening to see something fall short of the high expectations you had already set. It does seem that csv export with all fields should export all the data. But again, the json export option you've provided is so much better that I can understand if improving csv is lower on your priority list.

    (Writing this post makes me think I also had an ulterior motive of wanting to rave about the product. Great job on this thing!)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @scarpent: First of all, thank you for the kind words. This is also an interesting subject. I get where you're coming from about the CSV, but there are at least two big problems with exporting custom 1Password stuff: other apps will have no idea what to do with it, and the nature of CSV (basically a comma-delimited, text based "spreadsheet") is such that in the best case scenario if we did try to export that stuff you'd end up with a lot of junk when importing. I agree with you in principle, but really the only way to properly represent 1Password data was by creating our own format. It's open and fairly well supported though, so there's no real downside to using it. Cheers! :)

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