where are the folders? [We use tags now in 1Password 7]

raiderxxlraiderxxl
edited March 22 in Windows Beta

I use folders to sort my passwords. but in the new beta no folders were created during the data transfer.

did the new version dont use folders???

greetings from germany

Pascal


1Password Version: 7
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: win10
Sync Type: Not Provided

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Comments

  • Just tags now.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @raiderxxl - yep, @reck is correct: tags are the primary organizational tool in 1Password 7. They're more flexible and more powerful than static folders. Let us know if you have any questions. :)

  • @Lars is there some sort of migration route from folders to tags? if we've spent a lot of time organising in to folders it'd be a shame to lose all that effort.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @timbishop - yes. Sorry for not mentioning that earlier. When you either open a vault in the new 1Password 7 (1Password > Open vault on this PC) or import an older, existing standalone vault's contents into a vault in 1Password 7 for Windows (1Password > Import), your folders will be converted to tags.

  • I have open my old v4 vault it was converted to the new v7 version but no tags was generated...

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited March 21

    Hi guys,

    Folders are not yet converted to tags for the old AgileKeychain vaults.

    Do not get rid of your AgileKeychain vaults yet but we are going to support converting folders to tags soon.

  • @Lars How dit you manage this? i have a lot of folders and subfolders... this will be a huge mess if there was only a flat tag view...

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @raiderxxl - what format are your existing vaults in? If they're in Agile Keychain format, you can't do this; it's not supported. If your existing vaults are in the OPVault format, then opening them in 1Password 7 for Windows or importing them from OPVault to a vault in a 1password.com account will indeed convert the folders to tags.

  • raiderxxlraiderxxl
    edited March 21

    thats ok in 1Password 7 are no folders... in 1Password 4 i have folders... no Account just local files, syncted over Dropbox to iOS Clients...

    That is ok but how do you manage about 400 entries only with a flat tag view?

  • @MikeT will we need to rerun the conversion from agilekeychain to opvault to get folders across? ie. should I refrain from making changes in the opvault vault?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited March 21

    Hi guys,

    @raiderxxl,

    That is ok but how do you manage about 400 entries only with a flat tag view?

    At the moment, there is no nested organization, it's all flat. However, when you import your existing vaults, your existing nested folders will be tagged as such like folderA/folderB. In the future, it'll be changed to split into

    FolderA
    FolderB.

    Here's a screenshot of it in action as we're testing this:

    @timbishop

    will we need to rerun the conversion from agilekeychain to opvault to get folders across? ie. should I refrain from making changes in the opvault vault?

    For the best and clean solution, yes. Note, we may be able to fix this retroactively if you keep both AGK and OPV folders in the same directory but it may not be as clean as the reconversion.

    You can rename the existing vault, reimport the original vault, copy the new data over to the new OPVault.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Here's a better look:

  • @MikeT any idea how long this will take to be done? are we talking days or weeks?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @timbishop,

    Unfortunately, we don't have a timeframe at the moment. The issue is harder than it looks but we'll ship it as soon as it is ready.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    @timbishop / @raiderxxl, we've just shipped the 7.0.531 beta update to fix the conversion of folders to tags when converting AgileKeychain to OPVault.

  • Hello, thank you for this update... but this is not practicable for me... no folders in future, no 1password7 for me... sorry

  • @MikeT looks good, thank you!

    @raiderxxl why does it matter if you call them "folders" or "tags"? they're doing the same thing, and once nested tags are done they'll be exactly the same, surely?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    looks good, thank you!

    @timbishop: Glad that helps! I've been looking forward to that too. :)

    Hello, thank you for this update... but this is not practicable for me... no folders in future, no 1password7 for me... sorry

    @raiderxxl: I'm Sorry to hear that. Tags are much more flexible that folders — especially for syncing and sharing — so that's where we're going to put our efforts. I'd love to hear specifically why you're so dead-set on folders though, as we'll continue to evolve the UI for tags and may be able to help with your use case.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    Check out the 7.0.532 update we just released, it should now show indented tags, this can make it behave more like folders.

  • Thanks @MikeT! Your rate of progress is awesome - you should be ready to do a final release next week at this rate ;-)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    On behalf of the team here, you're welcome. Please keep your feedback coming, they do help us!

  • Imported a standalone 1PW4 (4.6.2.626) vault into 1PW7 (7.0.532) on Win10.

    1PW4 folders DO convert to nested tags (nice) but only if the "root" of the nested tags contains a record. If the "root" tag is empty the import / conversion reverts to the "tag/tag" format. I can see why this happens as the "root" tag has never been applied to a record, and these are now tag pointers and not folders.

    However if there are two or more levels the "tag/tag" format itself DOES become nested.

    This is going to get messy quite quickly for those of us who will have to import larger 1PW4 agilekeychains that have used a nested folder structure to maintain some kind of ability to find things!!!

    Of course tagging is much more versatile as one record can now appear in multiple tag "folders" so I will probably end up devising a new "tagging scheme". To do this I would have to delete the "converted folder" tags from over 400 records and add whatever new scheme I come up with.

    I see others have previously asked about implmenting a tag management facility. As a minimum (for the Windows users who have been stuck on 1PW4 standalone) a "drag to tag" facility (like Mac users apparently have) will possibly be rather important along with an import / conversion process that ignores folders altogether.

    Finally, when using a tag to view an existing set of records it would be nice if, when then creating a new record, that the tag being viewed is automatically applied.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @hudl2user,

    Thanks for reporting these issues.

    . If the "root" tag is empty the import / conversion reverts to the "tag/tag" format. I can see why this happens as the "root" tag has never been applied to a record, and these are now tag pointers and not folders.

    That's a known issue that'll be addressed in a future beta update. Right now, the current method does not separate nested tags if there is no root tag as you notice. Once we add this code, it'll automatically adjust them.

    To do this I would have to delete the "converted folder" tags from over 400 records and add whatever new scheme I come up with.

    I would not recommend changing all of your data just because of this yet, 1Password 7 Beta is still an early beta build with a lot of changes coming in the next few months. Please do not change anything until it is released as a stable update first.

    . As a minimum (for the Windows users who have been stuck on 1PW4 standalone) a "drag to tag" facility (like Mac users apparently have) will possibly be rather important along with an import / conversion process that ignores folders altogether.

    You can right-click on multiple items to tag them or untag them. Once you untag them, you can add a new tag to them, that's a quick workaround for renaming tag or removing a tag.

    Tag rename/delete is coming in a future beta update, you'll be able to do these actions by right-clicking on the tags in the sidebar.

    Drag and Drop isn't going to happen for a while, it has a lot of glitches that we have to work around on Windows and our focus isn't going to add this in the first stable release.

    We are looking into a different UI element for tag management but we don't know what it will be yet, we're still looking for a better one than what we currently have with the tag submenu on the context menu.

  • Hi MikeT,

    Thanks for the detailed reply.

    I would not recommend changing all of your data just because of this yet, 1Password 7 Beta is still an early beta build with a lot of changes coming in the next few months. Please do not change anything until it is released as a stable update first.

    Don't worry! I am not changing anything until the product leaves beta. I was just working on a copy of my standalone vault (as well as a "test" vault) in a VM to see what issues came up so I could provide a bit of beta-testing feedback.

    Regarding beta-testing feedback, do you have a more organised / dedicated system than this forum? Haven't you used HockeyApp in the past? I have never used it so I do not know if it is suitable, hence you using the forum.

    It's just that I have seen that people will raise issues when they have been answered in a previous post. I don't blame the posters because a forum can have a thread that it starts on one aspect and then veers off onto another, so it is not obvious that their point may have been answered elsewhere!!

    Anyhoo, I can see that you are doing a lot of work on the new product and what I have seen so far looks really good.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for the detailed reply. Don't worry! I am not changing anything until the product leaves beta. I was just working on a copy of my standalone vault (as well as a "test" vault) in a VM to see what issues came up so I could provide a bit of beta-testing feedback.

    @hudl2user: Likewise, thanks for participating in the beta! The feedback is greatly appreciated. :)

    Regarding beta-testing feedback, do you have a more organised / dedicated system than this forum? Haven't you used HockeyApp in the past? I have never used it so I do not know if it is suitable, hence you using the forum.

    This is the best place, since we can post known issues, and everyone can benefit from comments everyone else leaves about bugs and features. We've used HockeyApp in the past for deployment, but we've got our own systems in place now for crash reports and diagnostic information...and the distribution and update process is much simpler now as well.

    It's just that I have seen that people will raise issues when they have been answered in a previous post. I don't blame the posters because a forum can have a thread that it starts on one aspect and then veers off onto another, so it is not obvious that their point may have been answered elsewhere!!

    We do our best to keep things on topic and split/merge comments as needed, but if nothing else we read — and respond to — literally every comment here, so don't sweat it; that's our job, so if you have something to contribute, please do without worrying too much about getting slightly off topic or mentioning something that's already been said. You should't have to read everything. :dizzy:

    Anyhoo, I can see that you are doing a lot of work on the new product and what I have seen so far looks really good.

    Thanks for the kind words! And I can't wait for you to see what else we have waiting for you. ;)

  • edited April 11

    Context: I am open to migrating to tags and 1Password.com, but I need the information in my folders to keep it all organized, and I have multiple standalone vaults.

    Do you have a way to convert folders to tags for people who have multiple standalone vaults in 1Password 7? In the latest Mac 1Password 7 beta, I tried to move things from standalone vaults to 1password.com in a setup where I have multiple stand-alone vaults. There was no auto-import, and currently the documentation says there is no automated import for multiple vaults and so to copy or move the items from the vault to 1Password.com vaults. When I dd this copy, the folder information was lost, no tags created for folders. It sounds like the automated import will address this eventually (and that, combined with being able to collapse the tags in the sidebar, will put me most of the way to good) - if it works for multiple vaults...

    Do I need to just make a place where I repeat installing 7, mounting a single standalone vault, letting it get imported, then uninstalling, and repeat for all vaults (or something like that)?

    I understand I am probably an edge case in terms of complexity of my use, so just looking for the path of least pain/resistance for getting my existing credentials into the new paradigm.

    I'd also be interested in knowing how nested tagging works in terms of parent tags as you step up the tree, as well, but I can ask a separate question on that, and I can work with it however you end up implementing it.

    Thanks!

    Jonathan Morgan

  • agilexagilex
    edited April 12

    I fail to see how this tag system with forward slashes is more efficient than folders from a user's point of view. It may be more flexible from a developer's standpoint (store things flat; good for databases), but those details should be abstracted away on the surface. For users, it's still more convenient and more intuitive to manage large amount of entries using a file system like structure: people can organize items into directories and sub-directories based on user-defined relationship, and they can easily drag & move entries or directories if they'd like to change structure. Behind the curtain, the app can store such structure as tags in each item, but nothing beats the good old folder system when it comes to content management for users.

    By the way, I tried using slashes in the latest beta build (7.0.532). It seems that the tags are still not correctly indented. Or am I missing something?

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @agilex: 1Password 7 for Windows can actually individually import each of your standalone vaults into your 1Password account and will convert folders to tags for each. This includes converting nested folder to indented tags, so you'll not see the Tag1/Tag2 behavior shown in your screenshot if you import your vaults. :chuffed:

    We also do support creating new indented tags as well, but even I had to ask about this as I bungled my attempt to do so. You need to create the root tag first. So if you want Tag1/Tag2, add Tag1 to an item and save it. Then add Tag 1/Tag2 to the item and save. This will display a proper indented tag in the sidebar. As someone mentioned earlier, removing Tag1 from that item will cause the sidebar to revert to Tag1/Tag2, so your item details won't look quite right at present. This is an issue we're working on and we'll need to make some tweaks that will both avoid needing to create the parent tag individually, and support "empty" parent tags as someone else mentioned earlier.

    I know this whole process is a bit confusing right now (heck, it confused me too and I had to ask for help), but it does work and it will work much better in a future update. :+1:

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited April 13

    I fail to see how this tag system with forward slashes is more efficient than folders from a user's point of view. **It may be more flexible from a developer's standpoint (store things flat; good for databases), but those details should be abstracted away on the surface. **

    @agilex: You're not wrong...but having sync conflicts because of the inflexible nature of folders is hardly something I'd call "abstracted from the user". In principle, we agree completely. And that's why tags is a better option for both developers and users: no one has to deal with the messes created by people putting the same item in different "folders" offline and then connecting and syncing the data. :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Do you have a way to convert folders to tags for people who have multiple standalone vaults in 1Password 7? In the latest Mac 1Password 7 beta, I tried to move things from standalone vaults to 1password.com in a setup where I have multiple stand-alone vaults.

    @agilex: This is the Windows beta category. Folders are automatically converted to tags there, but we've had a bit of a head start on Windows. 1Password for Mac will get this as well. :)

    There was no auto-import,

    Right. And this applies to all versions of 1Password: we're not going to have 1Password move people's data around without asking.

    and currently the documentation says there is no automated import for multiple vaults and so to copy or move the items from the vault to 1Password.com vaults. When I dd this copy, the folder information was lost, no tags created for folders. It sounds like the automated import will address this eventually (and that, combined with being able to collapse the tags in the sidebar, will put me most of the way to good) - if it works for multiple vaults...

    We already have an account migration process in place, but as you noted this doesn't cover multiple vaults. There are things we'd like to do to make it easier to migrate multiple vaults, but ultimately it cannot be automated because you may not want the additional vaults beyond your Primary to be have their contents copied automatically to a vault that could be accessed by someone else (which would be the case in a family or team setting). So while moving items between vaults will be best, we do want to make it easier to move additional vaults, but that will mostly entail creating new vaults in the account and converting data (e.g. folders to tags, attachments to documents) without the user having to do more than just select the items and a destination for them.

    Do I need to just make a place where I repeat installing 7, mounting a single standalone vault, letting it get imported, then uninstalling, and repeat for all vaults (or something like that)? I understand I am probably an edge case in terms of complexity of my use, so just looking for the path of least pain/resistance for getting my existing credentials into the new paradigm.

    Don't do that unless you really want the contents of all of your current vaults to be emptied into your account's Personal/Private vault. That's what the migration process does with the Primary. So if you go through one by one with each vault setup as the primary, you would be able to migrate all of the data...but it would all end up in the same place. Given you're using multiple vaults in the first place, that's probably not what you want.

    I'd also be interested in knowing how nested tagging works in terms of parent tags as you step up the tree, as well, but I can ask a separate question on that, and I can work with it however you end up implementing it.

    Totally. Things are starting to settle down, so we'll have more to share on this in the future. Right now we've still got some work to do behind the scenes to flesh out the new nested tags feature. Thanks for your feedback on this, and for participating in the beta! :)

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