Conflicted copy via Dropbox

SystemSystem

Team Member
This discussion was created from comments split from: 🐛Known Issues for 1Password 7 for Windows Beta updates.

Comments

  • bgsuisubgsuisu
    edited March 2018

    Getting conflicted copy message from dropbox when making password changes?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @bgsuisu,

    Thanks for reporting this.

    Where are you making the password changes?

    1Password 7 do not resolve Dropbox conflicts just yet but it is coming in a future update. They're generally safe to ignore as 1Password 4 doesn't resolve them either but we'll be implementing it for 1Password 7.

  • Making password changes at merchant level in change password page. What I am seeing is that the changes go through and syncing is done but it lags a bit. thanks!

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @bgsuisu,

    That's good to hear.

    Can you clarify the lag, where or when is it lagging?

    There is an intentional delay on remote changes, 1Password 7 will wait 5 seconds when it detect changes to your standalone vaults and then start merging them in.

  • I have 1password 7 beta on 2pc's and iphone. the lag is not on the pc making the change but in syncing with the other pc and iphone. its not long 2mins approx. thx

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Thanks for the details, that could be due to Dropbox in addition to 1Password's delay. We'll keep optimizing the sync performance as we keep improving 1Password 7.

  • @MikeT To clarify this, when we see a conflict document in Dropbox, do we assume the changes are in place and to ignore it or what's the best course of action? (Two Windows 7 beta versions, one in heavy use, two iOS current version, one in moderate use).

    Thanks!

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @leesweet,

    To clarify this, when we see a conflict document in Dropbox, do we assume the changes are in place and to ignore it or what's the best course of action?

    It is not us creating the conflict copy, it is Dropbox. In this case, you'll want to double check your latest change is visible in other 1Password app. Usually, Dropbox uploads the change you made on the local device and rename the remote copy as conflict.

    For now, if you see latest changes, it is best to ignore it for now.

  • leesweetleesweet
    edited April 2018

    Well, how is it not you, since nothing else has conflicts. :) There is something creating this. I wouldn't even know it existed except for the 'uploaded files' Windows 10 shows you. What else would be changing two 1P files at the same time? I'm only using one copy of the app at a time, I assure you.

    Is there an easy way to see updates in the client by timestamp? All I can tell from dropbox is that this happened last night at 8:15, for example. So if I know what entries were made about that time...

    Edit: Sorting by modified time gives me nothing changed since yesterday morning at least in 'All Items'.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @leesweet,

    While 1Password updates and creates the file, it is Dropbox that copies that file over to its servers and download it to other computers connected to the Dropbox account. In other words, it is Dropbox that is actually overwriting files in 1Password directory when syncing.

    This is not limited to 1Password. You can replicate this easily by having the same or even multiple tools update the same file on two separate computers and Dropbox will create a conflict copy. This is a natural side effect of any syncing solution, nothing is immune to this unless the said sync tool is configured not to do this and that can cause data loss.

    What is happening is that 1Password made a change to an item on the local drive, Dropbox copies it but detected there is an incoming change to the same file. If Dropbox cannot successfully figure out which is newer, it simply uploads the one you just did locally and rename the remote file as a conflict, so you'd have both files.

    What else would be changing two 1P files at the same time? I'm only using one copy of the app at a time, I assure you.

    Do you only use Dropbox? Is there any other syncing or backup tools you may be using? We had a customer who was syncing the Dropbox folder with their local NAS sync tool as well (to create a back up) and that caused a sync loop that resulted into sync conflicts.

    Is there an easy way to see updates in the client by timestamp?
    Edit: Sorting by modified time gives me nothing changed since yesterday morning at least in 'All Items'.

    That won't work because you don't see the conflict in 1Password at all, it is not imported. That's why we have to add our own method to working with sync conflicts.

  • Never used anything else with 1P, in how many years I've been using 1P (since before version 4). Nothing else hitting 1P data, and as I said, not at the same time. Never had an issue with 1P data before, as far as I know.

    So, what now? Delete the conflict file? Does it matter 'which' one it's in? (F)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @leesweet,

    Never used anything else with 1P, in how many years I've been using 1P (since before version 4).

    So, you're not backing up your drive either? I'm not sure what else it can be then. For now, just ignore it and we'll see how it goes after a few weeks.

    So, what now? Delete the conflict file? Does it matter 'which' one it's in? (F)

    Nothing for now, do not do anything. This is normal to see once in a while and it is safe to leave it there.

    Eventually, 1Password 7 will clean it up for you.

  • Nothing touches dropbox, as it's on several PCs. No need to back it up; and we have the 1P backups, of course.

    If 1P will take care of it down the road, great. Do you want to hear about more conflicts or ignore them?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited April 2018

    For now, ignore them. Only tell us if it happens all the time, it is okay to see one conflict every once in a while .

    No need to back it up; and we have the 1P backups, of course.

    Since you said "of course", implying that you shouldn't back up, that's not the case.

    Dropbox is not a backup service and only store deletions for 30 days for regular accounts. It's a single copy that's on several PCs, if you delete it and didn't realize, it's gone from all PCs. The general rule for backups are 3 copies, two local and one remote. A backup of your Dropbox folder is still recommended and another copy of your 1Password backup stored on an external drive (in case your hard drive dies) and one offsite (in case your home burns down especially if it has all of the several PCs) is still the best backup plan.

  • Will do, thanks for the info!

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    You're welcome!

  • Hi MikeT - wondering if this was addressed?

    "Hi @bgsuisu, 1Password 7 do not resolve Dropbox conflicts just yet but it is coming in a future update. They're generally safe to ignore as 1Password 4 doesn't resolve them either but we'll be implementing it for 1Password 7." Considering an upgrade to 1Password7 but this is a factor. Thanks!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @jakegoat: We don't have the ability to "address" conflicts with a 3rd party sync service. Dropbox creates these when it tries to reconcile changes made to the same file on different devices within a time frame. If you're not missing anything, it's safe to ignore. However, I'd suggest checking your data/time/zone across all devices and setting manually if necessary to correct any discrepancies. Those can really wreak havoc with Dropbox's attempts to reconcile changes made across multiple devices, since there is no "source of truth"; it's taking everything and trying to pick the right "winner". Nothing against Dropbox, because what they're doing is nearly miraculous in that it works most of the time, across very different file systems. But this is par for the course, and can be difficult to figure out when something does happen to go wrong.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @jakegoat,

    In addition to what Brenty said, this should not be a factor in your decision simply because it is not really a 1Password feature nor has it ever been implemented in any 1Password versions on Windows. This is just a courtesy thing from us to help make Dropbox sync easier to use but we recommend our 1Password.com membership instead if you have a lot of problems with Dropbox sync as we can't help much with Dropbox sync problems. Of course, this is a very rare issue with 1Password.com since we have servers handling this intelligently and automatically in the background.

  • Brenty, just parroting what MikeT said.

    MikeT, I don't have any problems with dropbox syncing - I've been sharing a password file with my wife for many, many years which has always worked, even if we're editing passwords simultaneously (not the same ones of course).

    However, the reason I ask is because I haven't upgraded us to 1Password 7 yet and I understand that this requires a conversion of the agilekeychain to OPVault. The way I understand it, the agilekeychain was 100% granular - 1 file per record - but the OPVault implementation is banded. This suggests to me that it's more likely my wife and I could be accessing different passwords that happen to be in the same band. I'm looking for a little confirmation of this and a better understanding of how many passwords / records are held in each band. I've read this: https://support.1password.com/opvault-design/ and it tells me that if I had 600 passwords then I could potentially have 50 passwords per band, maybe more, maybe less, depending on UUID.

    This would increase the chances of conflicts by 50x. So... it makes me wary of updating to v7. Hope that's a little clearer. Look forward to a response!

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @jakegoat,

    Yes, you would have an increased chance of sync conflicts if you're sharing the same vault with other users, same reason we're stopped recommending Dropbox sync for shared standalone vaults for many years now even before we switch to OPVault for all 1Password 7 versions.

    If you're changing a lot of data at the same time with your wife, then I would recommend waiting until we add this support but we don't have a timeframe on this.

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