Testing 1Password v7 beta for windows parallel to 1Password v4?

Hi, I am using 1Password v4 without any Agilebits online account or subscription right now. I would like to test 1Password v7 beta for Windows even as standalone version without any Agilebits online account or subscription. I have some questions regarding this:

  • What is the best way to do this?

  • Is there a buy option in the beta?

  • Is it possible to use version v4 and v7 at same time on the same windows computer?

  • Can I use my vault from v4, import it in v7, change it there and use it later again in v4, if I decide to go back to v4? Or is this a one way ticket from v4 to v7?

  • Is it possible to copy the vault from v7 to the current Android App (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.agilebits.onepassword
    ) to use the data on the mobile phone? How can I do this?

Thanks for your help
Dude


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2018

    Hi, I am using 1Password v4 without any Agilebits online account or subscription right now. I would like to test 1Password v7 beta for Windows even as standalone version without any Agilebits online account or subscription. I have some questions regarding this:

    @lebowski: Sure thing! :)

    What is the best way to do this?

    Head over to the Windows beta category of the forum for information on where to get it, known issues, and to leave feedback. :sunglasses:

    Is there a buy option in the beta?

    No, but if you're using the beta, closer to final release we will offer you a discount through the app. Just our way of saying thanks for participating. :)

    Is it possible to use version v4 and v7 at same time on the same windows computer?

    Sort of, but we don't recommend it. 1Password 7 is designed to fully replace 1Password 4, so it will not play nice with the older version.

    Can I use my vault from v4, import it in v7, change it there and use it later again in v4, if I decide to go back to v4? Or is this a one way ticket from v4 to v7?

    That should work, but as always be sure to backup your data. It's possible that there will be bugs in the beta that could cause some issues for you, but we're doing our best to make your experience as smooth as possible.

    Is it possible to copy the vault from v7 to the current Android App (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.agilebits.onepassword) to use the data on the mobile phone? How can I do this?

    1Password for Android can sync OPVaults via Dropbox, so that would work between the two platforms. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

  • Hi, thanks for your quick answer.

    Is it even possible to use something like folder sync to copy the vault file from desktop pc to mobile phone without using dropbox?

    Which local file would that be? Does the android apop and 1PW v7 use the same file format?

    Thanks

    Dude

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Hi, thanks for your quick answer.

    @lebowski: You're welcome! :)

    Is it even possible to use something like folder sync to copy the vault file from desktop pc to mobile phone without using dropbox?

    Possible, but problematic...

    Which local file would that be? Does the android apop and 1PW v7 use the same file format?

    1Password for Windows version 7 can sync to a local folder. And the Android app can as well. But the Windows version only supports OPVault, and the Android version does not support that for local syncing yet. It's something we're looking into, but I can't make any promises since we're still very early in the version 7 development process. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you right now.

  • Hi,

    Thanks again. Just to be sure, If I need the same vault at my desktop computer and my android phone, without using

    • a agilebits online account
    • an external service like dropbox

    there is only the following single (inhouse) solution right now:

    • 1PW v4 + Android App 6.7.3 + Wlan sync

    Is that correct? Would your suggestions be to stay with the current solution until Android app will support local OPVault sync to use manual folder sync with 1PW v7?

    Kind regards
    Dude

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    Hi @lebowski,

    That is correct. Is there a particular reason why you want to sync you data manually? Please let us know.

    1Password 7 for Windows is planned to receive local folder sync only, but we have a big discussion of WLAN Sync here, so please feel free to join in. Moreover, if WLAN Sync is important to you, please sign up for our mailing list and share your thoughts on this matter. It will be really appreciated. Thank you! :+1:

    Cheers,
    Greg

    ref: OPA-1457

  • Hi @Greg, well this for two reasons. First, I'm not allowed to (contract rules), second I don't want to.

    Well even if there will be no wlan sync for 1PW v7, I need some solution for copy a vault from desktop pc to android mobile phone. It does not matter how it works, as long it works somehow locally between desktop pc and android phone (cable or wireless).

    @brenty mentioned above 1PW v7 use a different method (OPVaults file by local file sync) file format than the android app (non OPVaults file by local file sync).

    I do not know what file format android app uses right now, but it seems this is not compatible with desktop version v7. I wonder how sync via dropbox works between 1PW v7 and android app, is there any conversion going on internally?

    If v7 does local folder sync only, it will work for me, as long as I can get this vault data somehow to the android app. If this would be possible I would buy v7 immediately. But it seems this is not working at the moment right?

    The question is, is there something planned to change this? If yes, what could that be?

    Please note, I like your product from the first time I have used it, and I convinced a lot of people to use it to. I am only worried about the future of the "keep it local" possibilities, and I mean all of them, not only wlan sync.

    Greetings
    Dude

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2018

    Hi @Greg, well this for two reasons. First, I'm not allowed to (contract rules), second I don't want to.

    @lebowski: Thanks for sharing. But why don't you want to? :)

    Well even if there will be no wlan sync for 1PW v7, I need some solution for copy a vault from desktop pc to android mobile phone. It does not matter how it works, as long it works somehow locally between desktop pc and android phone (cable or wireless). @brenty mentioned above 1PW v7 use a different method (OPVaults file by local file sync) file format than the android app (non OPVaults file by local file sync).

    Indeed, as things stand today, that isn't possible. The two are using different vault formats for syncing to a local folder.

    I do not know what file format android app uses right now, but it seems this is not compatible with desktop version v7. I wonder how sync via dropbox works between 1PW v7 and android app, is there any conversion going on internally?

    1Password for Android is using AgileKeychain format for syncing with a local folder. Dropbox sync, on the other hand, can use OPVault on both. We don't have any logic in the Android app to convert vaults, which is one of the challenges there.

    If v7 does local folder sync only, it will work for me, as long as I can get this vault data somehow to the android app. If this would be possible I would buy v7 immediately. But it seems this is not working at the moment right? The question is, is there something planned to change this? If yes, what could that be?

    It's something that would need to be implemented in the Android app. We'd like to, and we p probably will at some point, but we have a lot of other work to do there, and our priority has to always be the sync methods which are used by the most people. WLAN and folder are nowhere near the top of that list.

    Please note, I like your product from the first time I have used it, and I convinced a lot of people to use it to. I am only worried about the future of the "keep it local" possibilities, and I mean all of them, not only wlan sync.

    I hear you. You can continue using the setup you already have. And if and when we have a sync option that is acceptable to you, you can upgrade at that time. Thank you for your continued feedback on this!

  • lebowskilebowski
    edited March 2018

    Thanks for the details and your advice. I will stay tuned, until some improvements are made to this issue (hopefully).

    Regarding your question about why not use the cloud solution, I can remember this event pretty well:

    https://techcrunch.com/2011/06/20/dropbox-security-bug-made-passwords-optional-for-four-hours

    This does not belong directly to your product I know, but maybe it makes you a little bit more open minded for the users which want to keep their data completely private. And with private I mean keep everything only on their own devices.

    Thanks and keep up the great work. Your product deserves it :-)

    Dude

    P.S. A sync newsletter which is all about sharing data between different devices would maybe a good idea for people like me :-)

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @lebowski - Indeed, we remember that event quite well. Our own relationship with Dropbox goes back many years; we were among the early bandwagon-jumpers to use their APIs, because at that time (2011 and earlier) there simply weren't any other services (yet) which provided the robust APIs we needed to begin offering our first-ever cloud syncing service.

    But we knew then, as we do now, that we cannot depend (or ask our users to depend) upon the security of existing technologies such as TLS (SSL) or what might be offered by a service such as Dropbox (which has indeed always provided its own encryption). SSL/TLS can be compromised by bogus certificates and other trickery and Dropbox itself - as the article you linked to demonstrates - can sometimes have issues as well. That's why, from the beginning, our design philosophy has intentionally never depended on additional/existing security. We design 1Password to withstand worst-case scenarios, like using the assumption that Dropbox and/or TLS/SSL have already been breached or compromised, and your data has fallen into the hands of attackers (which would be no different than if your phone, tablet or laptop was lost or stolen).

    The question we ask ourselves - and invite our users to ask - is: can 1Password withstand attacks on its own, when all other security may have failed you, or when you leave your laptop in an airport lounge? If it can (assuming you've done your part by choosing a strong Master Password and not sharing it with anyone), then we've done our job -- and that's why people trust us: because in nearly 12 years of existence, we've never had a breach of users' encrypted data. If 1Password can't do that -- can't withstand direct attacks on your data -- then it wouldn't matter much where you stored your data.

    Put another way: if you're depending on the obscurity of attackers not knowing where you keep your 1Password data, rather than on the security provided by our encryption, then we're not doing our job.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2018

    Thanks for the details and your advice. I will stay tuned, until some improvements are made to this issue (hopefully).

    @lebowski: You're welcome. Sounds good. :)

    Regarding your question about why not use the cloud solution, I can remember this event pretty well:
    https://techcrunch.com/2011/06/20/dropbox-security-bug-made-passwords-optional-for-four-hours
    This does not belong directly to your product I know, but maybe it makes you a little bit more open minded for the users which want to keep their data completely private. And with private I mean keep everything only on their own devices.

    On the contrary, I remember it well. And the thing is, that didn't affect 1Password users, even those (including myself) who sync their 1Password data using Dropbox. 1Password data is end-to-end encrypted, so it simply doesn't depend on the sync service to protect your data. 1Password is secure by design, not by chance. That's why we ask what may seem like a silly question — "Why?" — when people say they just don't want to use a cloud service. Not because they don't have good reason to be wary of the cloud, but because we've designed 1Password's security model because we're equally — or perhaps even more — wary of it ourselves. Otherwise we wouldn't sync our data using Dropbox, iCloud, or 1Password.com either. And, last but not least, 1Password.com has the added security of the (128-bit, randomly-generated) Secret Key as well, so there's a to to recommend it.

    Thanks and keep up the great work. Your product deserves it :-)
    Dude

    Thanks, Dude. Seriously, hearing from passionate folks like you is what we live for. :)

    P.S. A sync newsletter which is all about sharing data between different devices would maybe a good idea for people like me :-)

    Ahh. We actually had something like that a long time ago. Maybe we can bring that back in a new form in the future. Cheers! :)

  • Hi,

    I have a standalone licence as well and I'm using 1P with Dropbox sync between PCs and mobiles, also I don't have 1P account (and I don't plan to create one).

    So what will happen if I update 1P from v4 to 7beta only on one PC and use the v4 on the others?

    @brenty said "Sort of, but we don't recommend it. 1Password 7 is designed to fully replace 1Password 4, so it will not play nice with the older version." when @lebowski asked "Is it possible to use version v4 and v7 at same time on the same windows computer?". My situation similar and I don't know what the "will not play nice" means in this case.

    Thanks!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I have a standalone licence as well and I'm using 1P with Dropbox sync between PCs and mobiles, also I don't have 1P account (and I don't plan to create one). So what will happen if I update 1P from v4 to 7beta only on one PC and use the v4 on the others?

    You may run into some hiccups given that 1Password 7 is prerelease software, but since both support OPVault that will work for you on either. And keep in mind that if you purchase a 1Password for Windows version 7 license, you're entitled to use it on all of your PCs.

    @brenty said "Sort of, but we don't recommend it. 1Password 7 is designed to fully replace 1Password 4, so it will not play nice with the older version." when @lebowski asked "Is it possible to use version v4 and v7 at same time on the same windows computer?". My situation similar and I don't know what the "will not play nice" means in this case.

    Indeed, it's possible to use both, but not recommended. Only one or the other can connect to the browser extensions, so you may have to fight with it a bit in that regard. What is the use case exactly? Since 1Password 7 supports both local vaults and 1Password.com accounts, I'm not sure why that wouldn't suffice on its own.

  • Just to clarify here. Dropbox V7 for Windows supports Dropbox and syncing with Mac and IOS versions using Dropbox as well?

  • sas_samsas_sam
    edited April 2018

    Indeed, it's possible to use both, but not recommended. Only one or the other can connect to the browser extensions, so you may have to fight with it a bit in that regard. What is the use case exactly? Since 1Password 7 supports both local vaults and 1Password.com accounts, I'm not sure why that wouldn't suffice on its own.

    Thanks @brenty for the answer!

    The reason is simple. I want to test the beta on my home PC, but during work hours on my work PC I want a stable version of it. So the question was really that is "database"/file structure/file format backward compatible or if I start using v7beta, it won't be compatible with older version v4?

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    @thrint: Syncing to Dropbox is supported in 1Password 7 Beta and will be supported when it is fully released. I hope it helps. :+1:

    @sas_sam: You should be able to use your OPVault local vault in both 1Password 4 at work and 1Password 7 on your home computer. Am I right to understand that you are planning to sync via Dropbox?

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • @sas_sam: You should be able to use your OPVault local vault in both 1Password 4 at work and 1Password 7 on your home computer. Am I right to understand that you are planning to sync via Dropbox?

    Yes, @Greg , that's right. I'm using Dropbox for sync between desktops and mobile devices as well. Ok, so I shouldn't get any compatibility issues if I use different versions on different PCs. It's a good news, thanks!

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    @sas_sam: Please let us know if you bump into any issues, we are always here for you. Thank you! :) :+1:

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • Just a quick one, @Greg ... :)

    During the install, 1P ask me to open the current Vault on my PC, which is in a Dropbox folder. I selected the 1Password.agilekeychain folder from there and it says:

    "Your current vault will be upgraded to the OPVault format in the same directory, be sure to update other 1Password apps to point to your new OPVault folder."

    What does it mean? Is it still valid that I'll be able to use my v4 and v7beta in parallel? Or do I need to do anything after this on the other PCs and mobile apps where I use older version of 1P?

  • bundtkatebundtkate

    Team Member

    @sas_sam: OPVault is a data format for your vault that is supported by 1Password 6/7 on your mobile devices (and 1Password 4 for Windows), so you will need to reconfigure sync on your other devices to point them to the new OPVault that 1Password 7 has created for you, but that's 100% doable with your older apps. You can absolutely continue using 1Password 4 on another PC, but this message is letting you know you need to make a tweak to where it's syncing so it stays on the same page as 1Password 7. :chuffed:

  • Thanks @bundtkate , I did it and it looks like fine and works. However the reconfigure process was a pain on iOS and didn't work. So I just simply deleted the app and reinstalled it and set all the vaults again from Dropbox.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Yeah, depending on how you have things setup, I agree that sometimes it's just simpler to start over with a clean slate if you've got the data somewhere safe. Cheers! :)

  • My use case is Macs and iPhones at home sync'ed with Dropbox and my Main PC at work that I need access to the Work 1Password account and my own personal vault via Dropbox. Been using' 1Password before you had the subscription model and I am a big fan of it ain't broke don't fix it.

    Also if something would happen to either/both Dropbox or Agilebits I will still have a working app with local access to my vaults.

    This USED to work fine on Windows 10 (1Password account and Dropbox syncing) but then something happened that broke that. Now using V4 for my Dropbox personal account and V6 for my 1Password account on Win10 is a major PITA and going back to the way it worked previously would be WONDERFUL.

    PS: I had to retype this because I didn't log in first. When I logged in your forum lost my post, annoying, and if I may, a bug.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @thrint: As Greg mentioned to you earlier, 1Password supports Dropbox sync. I've used that for about a decade myself. I don't know what you mean when you say something broke, as that isn't the case. 1Password 4 has always supported Dropbox, and 1Password 7 does as well, along with 1Password.com accounts.

    I'm sorry to hear you had trouble because you weren't logged in. The forum does require that for you to even get to the point where you can compose a comment, but if your login session times out or your browser cache wasn't reflecting that accurately you're right that can cause some confusion.

  • @brenty according to this article https://support.1password.com/sync-with-dropbox/ Dropbox sync is not supported in 1Password7 in Windows and the only solution offered is "In 1Password 6 for Windows, you can move your existing 1Password data to a 1Password account." and you can't open a 1Password account on 1Password 4.

    And I just opened my work PC remotely and I see nowhere, where it offers me an option to open an actual file stored in Dropbox on the local filesystem.

    And with all due respect saying "I'm sorry to hear you had trouble..." helps not one bit. The forum software should retain posts through a login, not discard them. Please bring this to the attention of whoever bought or wrote your forum software, thank you.

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    Hi @thrint,

    1Password 7 Beta for Windows supports local vaults synced via Dropbox and the article you you are referring to will be updated, once 1Password 7 for Windows is released. If you are using 1Password 6 for Windows, you won't be able to open a local vault there, but if you update to the beta version of 1Password 7 Beta, this option should be in 1Password menu at the top:

    Could you please specify what kind of difficulties with it you have at the moment? Thank you!

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • @Greg Yes I was aware that v7 would support local vaults/Dropbox, which I am very happy about. There just seemed to be some confusion about current support for Dropbox which is non-existent (currently...) in Win 10 and sorely missed.

    While we have no problems with our 1Password account at work on Macs we have run into an issue where, SOMETIMES, new entries do not sync when they are entered in the Windows client. Sometimes opening the account on an IOS device will fix the issue, on a couple of occasions we have had to sign out of the account and sign back in for the new entries to appear on everyone's Windows system. Unfortunately I have no further details on that issue.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Yes I was aware that v7 would support local vaults/Dropbox, which I am very happy about. There just seemed to be some confusion about current support for Dropbox which is non-existent (currently...) in Win 10 and sorely missed.

    @thrint: That's not the case, and is the topic of this discussion: the Windows beta for 1Password 7. I'm using it the way I described above myself, and you're welcome to as well.

    While we have no problems with our 1Password account at work on Macs we have run into an issue where, SOMETIMES, new entries do not sync when they are entered in the Windows client. Sometimes opening the account on an IOS device will fix the issue, on a couple of occasions we have had to sign out of the account and sign back in for the new entries to appear on everyone's Windows system. Unfortunately I have no further details on that issue.

    We've added additional measures in 1Password 7 already to address connection issues, especially those involving workplace network restrictions (firewall, proxy, "security" software, etc.) I'd be interested for you to try it to see if that helps you as it has so many others already. :)

  • Hi again,

    @brenty

    I have read the following entry in beta changelog for the android app:

    #

    7.0.BETA-9 (build #7000009) – released 2018-05-22
    For those of you syncing your own way using local storage, you'll be happy to know that you can now sync using the OPVault format.

    #

    Well it seems this could solve my problem. Just to be sure. Would you suggest me to upgrade from 1PW v4 to 1PW v7 for Windows under following conditions:

    • using 1PW v7 for windows as standalone version without any Agilebits online account or subscription --> local sync to opvault
    • using the actual android app (beta) --> local sync to opvault
    • using a synology NAS which hosts the opvault file
    • using a folder sync tool which syncs the windows pc with my android mobile phone automatically and only locally

    If your answer would be “yes” without an “but” it would makes me very happy :)

    Just for my interest, is the price discount for “year long 1Password users” like me still available?

    Kind regards

    Dude

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @lebowski: Hey, Dude! It's not something I'd ever "suggest", BUT you could certainly do that if you wanted to. Just please be sure to backup your data religiously, as the only thing that's supported by us in that scenario is 1Password, and there are a lot of other moving parts. :sunglasses:

    Regarding licenses, we're currently running a launch special for 1Password for Windows version 7. You'll be offered to purchase it right in the app when you install it. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

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