Why upgrade from 1Password 4 to 7

drclvsdrclvs
edited April 2018 in Windows Beta

I have tested the new 1Password 7 and while the new interface looks more modern, I don't see much reason to upgrade. One thing that I'm definitely losing is the categories as only tags are supported in 1Password 7. From some of the other discussion in this forum, it seems to me that many features that were previously there were also removed.

What are the new features that makes 1Password 7 a "must-have" upgrade?

I uses Dropbox sync which is the main reason why I've been stuck with 1Password 4 but so far I don't see enough pros to migrate to the new version. I also use 1 main vault only and don't have a strong need for multi vault support. Can someone else in the community who utilizes 3rd party sync e.g. Dropbox share your experience regarding 1Password 4 vs. 7 and why you think the upgrade is worth it?


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @drclvs: Thanks for reaching out, and for trying the beta in the first place! Honestly, coming from Dropbox and local vaults myself, the biggest upgrades for me in 1Password 7 coming from 1Password 4 are the speed and user interface improvements. Certainly the most noticeable aspects are how it looks, but I'm talking more about how quickly and easily I can navigate to find — and — fill what I want. Windows Hello, Edge, multiple vaults/All Vaults, and language/accessibility are great too, but mostly it's just all-around easier to use. Do you have particular features that are on your wishlist, or that you're already enjoying? :)

  • For me, the speed is the biggest pro so far. Its several times faster in everything. My main vault has >500 items with a lot of text files/keys stored in it as attachments and 1pw4 choked opening on my new i5/ssd laptop. The lack of ability to make the main login an application instead of a URL is a serious limitation to me right now, but the workaround of copy/paste is sufficient with how fast the interface is compared to before.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    For me, the speed is the biggest pro so far. Its several times faster in everything. My main vault has >500 items with a lot of text files/keys stored in it as attachments and 1pw4 choked opening on my new i5/ssd laptop.

    @yelladog_superjet: Thanks for weighing in! That's been my experience as well — especially with newer vaults and larger datasets.

    The lack of ability to make the main login an application instead of a URL is a serious limitation to me right now, but the workaround of copy/paste is sufficient with how fast the interface is compared to before.

    Do you mean using Auto-Type to fill in apps? I can't say when, but that's definitely on our list for the new app. We have basic support for this in version 7 now using "type in window" from 1Password mini (right-click an item), but we have a lot of ideas on how we can make it much, much cooler. :)

  • Type in window doesnt seem to work for me on any windows based device if the window is a pop up, like a password prompt when launching an application. Whether its a login or password (how its saved), even in situations where the option "type in window" is available, it will not type into a prompt in the foreground, only if there is no foreground prompt and just the base window for the app is opened. This occurs regardless of where the cursor is hovering at the time. In 1pw4 autofill in apps would type into the foreground window, even without manually selecting the information to be typed in from a list @brenty

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @yelladog_superjet: If you don't have a "Type in window" option for the password, it's because there are no windows available:

    It looks like you may have some weird popup there. It may be something we can get working in the future, but for now we're just getting a list of windows from the OS.

  • @brenty It was working in 1pw4. Ive used it that way for a couple years for terminal logins with SecureCRT. Other non-popup windows it works a lot of the time with the current workaround. It worked with popup windows in 1pw4 as well

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi guys,

    @yelladog_superjet, you are correct, the Type in window does not support pop-up and other types like it, including many UWP apps.

    We're working on supporting this in a future update but it may require a full implementation of Auto-Type instead, where 1Password can type without requiring you to change focus. Unfortunately, this is a longer-term project that may take a while.

  • rmpelrmpel Junior Member

    maybe a bit late; I have been too busy with work and missed almost the entire beta track of 1Password Win 7, but in response to "Why upgrade"; well for me with loads and loads of passwords and other items (1000+), the speed of version 7 is INCREDIBLE. version 4 is a snail on a bad day when using the browser-extension, takes forever to unlock, and requires multiple clicks to login with an OTP-protected account. Version 7 is - as said - much much faster and also, the auto-copy-OTP is a real time-saver. (We've been spoiled in the Mac version ...)

    Just my two cents :)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    That's great to hear, thanks for sharing your feedback.

    The best part is that we still have a lot of optimizations left to do in the near future and we think we can get it faster.

  • Listen, I was one of the most vocal people when AgileBits announced 1PW 7.x. I would've dropped your product faster than a bad habit if the local vaults weren't implemented, but I am glad you listened to your loyal customer base.

    With that said, I am on a SKELETON budget one of which you wouldn't believe without seeing. I was planning to stick with 1PW 4 for a long time, but decided to try out 1PW 7 beta and paid the $40. Trust me, it's definitely worth the upgrade. The speed, the interface, the features (auto copy OTP!!!!) and the reliability compared to 1PW justify the very steep cost. I absolutely loathe subscriptions but $40 is reasonable assuming I am able to update for at least 3-4 years to come to future versions which has been AB's pattern.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited May 2018

    Thanks for your purchase and yes, it is awesome. I think you meant when we released 1Password 6 since we've worked on 1Password 7 just for local vaults but yes, we now have the best of both worlds and we can now keep improving the core features for both at the same time from now on. I can't imagine what 1Password will be like in 6 month or even a year; just look at the first 1Password 6 release:

  • pbryanwpbryanw Junior Member
    edited May 2018

    Hehe, I vividly remember using the first beta, some two years ago, and it's been interesting to see 1Password for Window's develop from its barebone/sketchy beginnings, to the fully-featured program it is today. I believe it can now be considered the equal of the Mac version. :chuffed:

    It's also been good to see the 1Password team be so responsive to feedback and bug reports, on both the forum and via email, which is another thing that should be factored into any purchasing decision. I've seen so many requested features, missing from the very first beta, be reported on this forum, and just about everything has made it into the app :+1:

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @pbryanw: Thanks for taking this journey with us. It feels great to see the hard work pay off, but the best part is to hear from you and the rest of our awesome customers who're using it every day and enjoying it. And the best is yet to come. :chuffed:

  • Just want to say I purchased the license for 1PW7 to support the team and to receive the latest updates for the foreseeable future. I like the new look and feel but can't really notice the speed difference, 1PW4 was pretty solid for me before the upgrade.

    What I missed from 1PW4 is the ability to edit every single field you can see for each item. Right now in 1PW7 I can't edit the web form details, which many times has useless entries that's just garbage that I prefer to remove if possible. I also want to remove previously saved password as they are not always useful after a while but I can't!

    Another complaint is the amount of settings/preferences available in 1PW7 is painfully little. I notice there's a new icon that shows "No network connection to 1Password currently available" in the latest version but since I use Dropbox sync, I don't really want to see this.

    I also don't have the option to change the icon for each item. The downward triangle button is there beside the logo but it doesn't do anything when user click on it...

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Just want to say I purchased the license for 1PW7 to support the team and to receive the latest updates for the foreseeable future. I like the new look and feel but can't really notice the speed difference, 1PW4 was pretty solid for me before the upgrade.

    @drclvs: Than either you were using AgileKeychain before, or your PC is a beast! Or both! Either way, glad you're enjoying the new app! :chuffed:

    What I missed from 1PW4 is the ability to edit every single field you can see for each item. Right now in 1PW7 I can't edit the web form details, which many times has useless entries that's just garbage that I prefer to remove if possible. I also want to remove previously saved password as they are not always useful after a while but I can't!

    While generally I wouldn't recommend spending time manually editing all of that — or expect most users to do so — it can be helpful in some cases. We'll be adding that feature in an update.

    Another complaint is the amount of settings/preferences available in 1PW7 is painfully little. I notice there's a new icon that shows "No network connection to 1Password currently available" in the latest version but since I use Dropbox sync, I don't really want to see this.

    While we definitely don't want to add a bunch of settings if we can help it, if there are specific ones that you're hoping for let us know and we can consider each on a case by case basis. Regarding the network connection message, it's something we'll have to look into. I think it's useful for many users to know if their data cannot sync, but at the very least the message is a bit weird if you're using Dropbox.

    I also don't have the option to change the icon for each item. The downward triangle button is there beside the logo but it doesn't do anything when user click on it...

    Indeed, that's a feature that has not yet been implemented. Sorry for the confusion there, and thanks for all your feedback! :)

    ref: OPW-2020

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited May 2018

    Just to be clear, the No network connection to 1Password currently available means 1Password is not able to access the 1Password.com domain despite the valid Internet availability. This is not related to 1Password.com subscription, it means checking for updates, refreshing Watchtower database and so on won't work until 1Password can access 1Password.com.

    This is usually a proxy, VPN, or a firewall interfering with 1Password.

  • While we definitely don't want to add a bunch of settings if we can help it, if there are specific ones that you're hoping for let us know and we can consider each on a case by case basis. Regarding the network connection message, it's something we'll have to look into. I think it's useful for many users to know if their data cannot sync, but at the very least the message is a bit weird if you're using Dropbox.

    Here's a list of missing features (many of them are previously available)

    • Cannot reorder favourites
    • Cannot browse by tag in 1Password mini in Chrome
    • Cannot customize location for backups e.g. Dropbox
    • Cannot customize symbol allowed for generated password (based on site requirements)
    • Cannot modify/remove web form details
    • Cannot remove previously saved passwords
    • Cannot pull icon from website on demand

    I also notice some website icon shows up only in iOS version of the app but not the Windows version for example cbc.ca.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @drclvs,

    Thanks for the detailed list, we really appreciate you taking the time to write them down for us.

    Cannot reorder favourites:

    At the moment, this is intentional, we're setting them to be sorted alphabetical on all platforms soon but we are hearing some feedback about this. We're trying to see if there's another way to do this.

    Cannot browse by tag in 1Password mini in Chrome:

    That's coming in a future update.

    ref: OPW-1005

    Cannot customize location for backups e.g. Dropbox

    While we're looking into adding this in a future update, please be careful not to reuse the same Backups folder for 1Password backups, they should never ever reused on other computers. Each computer should have its own unique backups for redundancy.

    If something happened and your backups get corrupted like a hard drive failure or something like that, Dropbox can sync the corrupted files to the rest of your computers if they're reusing the same folder, which meant you can't use their original backups.

    Cannot customize symbol allowed for generated password (based on site requirements)

    You can edit the new password inline in the 1Password password generator window to remove the symbols and insert the ones that are acceptable.

    We're looking into figuring out the best UI for this but so far, there isn't one. So, we're not likely to add this in the short timeframe.

    Cannot modify/remove web form details

    Technically, this is intentional as web form details are not supposed to be user-modifiable as it is raw content of what 1Password extension saves for filling.

    It depends on some internal projects we're doing, we may not use web form details anymore in the future. However, we'll try to speed this up and bring editing if we don't anticipate removing this feature soon.

    Cannot remove previously saved passwords

    Also intentional and this will not be changed. Previously saved passwords is a history of changes in the item, allowing it to be edited means the history is broken and you won't benefit from future improvements to Watchtower that prevents reuse of previous passwords.

    If you really need to remove the history, you can duplicate the item and it will not carry over the history.

    Cannot pull icon from website on demand

    1Password already pulls it in real time when you edit the website address. There's no need to do it manually.

    A few notes about this:

    1. There may be a small delay if 1Password is already in a sync queue, so it may take a few refresh before it shows the updated icon.
    2. 1Password 7 does not do favicon pull anymore, it is only using Rich Icons. If our Rich Icon service doesn't have an icon, it'll default to the default Login icon.

    I also notice some website icon shows up only in iOS version of the app but not the Windows version for example cbc.ca.

    Is that the full address? I just did this and it shows the icon for me:

  • At the moment, this is intentional, we're setting them to be sorted alphabetical on all platforms soon but we are hearing some feedback about this. We're trying to see if there's another way to do this.

    I think ordering favourite is important because user might want to have their most used sites at the top of their favourite list. They can also group favourites by function e.g. banking websites appear in sequence in the favourite list. As a workaround, right now I can still reorder my favourite list using 1Password 6 on my devices running iOS 10.x.

    That's coming in a future update.

    ref: OPW-1005

    This is great, I hope there's a way to open all websites for a tag once this feature is implemented. If I have a tag for say credit cards, I want to be able to click once and right away log into all of them to check my balance etc.

    While we're looking into adding this in a future update, please be careful not to reuse the same Backups folder for 1Password backups, they should never ever reused on other computers. Each computer should have its own unique backups for redundancy.

    Maybe a warning can be given if user attempts to do so?

    You can edit the new password inline in the 1Password password generator window to remove the symbols and insert the ones that are acceptable.

    I didn't know this is possible. :p This is great and I confirmed the modified password (with allowed symbols) is the one get saved. I think this is good enough.

    Technically, this is intentional as web form details are not supposed to be user-modifiable as it is raw content of what 1Password extension saves for filling.

    This is editable in 1Password 4. Depending on which web page you use to store your logins, there might be a lot of redundant info stored with your password entry. If 1Password is smart enough to only store fields that contain your user name, password, "remember me" and drop all irrelevant entries, it might help. Nothing beats having full control though.

    If you really need to remove the history, you can duplicate the item and it will not carry over the history.

    I've used this workaround in the past but it's not that convenient. Maybe a prompt to discourage user to remove previously saved password (with justification) when they attempt to do so will be better instead of forcefully disable this feature.

    If our Rich Icon service doesn't have an icon, it'll default to the default Login icon.

    I know it's a maintenance headache to do this hence the slow rate of new icons being added. Any plan to crowd source this to speed up the process? Giving user option to use local icons can help close the gap as well. BTW the CBC icon shows up for me now on another machine, might be a machine dependent issue. Thanks.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @drclvs,

    I think ordering favourite is important because user might want to have their most used sites at the top of their favourite list.

    For now, you can rename the items to start with a digit, they'll be sorted as such on top. So, 1. CitiBank will always be on top and it should work on all platforms. Note that 1Password on macOS and iOS need the advanced option to sort by numbers and symbols first to be turned on.

    We understand, you shouldn't have to do this. The current issue is that each vault has their own favorites, and with the current method we use to save favorites, they do not work when you mix in more vaults and show them in All Vaults.

    We want to remove the current method and find a different way that is more usable and more cross-platform friendly.

    As a workaround, right now I can still reorder my favourite list using 1Password 6 on my devices running iOS 10.x.

    It'll be removed in future updates to all 1Password apps.

    This is great, I hope there's a way to open all websites for a tag once this feature is implemented.

    There is no plan to do that, it's not as simple as it sounds especially considering you're expecting 1Password to also fill and submit. Doing more than one is already difficult to get right consistently, doing multiple won't work well.

    Each tab has to be opened, wait for the extension to start (which only happens when the site is loaded) and then the extension talks to 1Password to decrypt and fill the data in. To repeat all of that at the same time for multiple sites is going to be difficult and it is not something we plan to look in as we have other priorities to work on first; like the lack of ability to open in new tabs or windows, instead of opening in current tab all the time. Yes, this was already available in 1Password 4 but it haven't been implemented in the new 1Password 6/7 codebase. If we implement that first, then your suggestion becomes easier for us to implement. So, basically, we don't have all of the pieces in place yet and we have a lot to finish.

    Maybe a warning can be given if user attempts to do so?

    We most likely will add a description below the option to "select Backup folder" to not reuse existing 1Password backups folder but what if you're moving to a new computer and you're selecting 1Password folder on the backup drive? This can confuse people, which is part of the reasons why we try not to add extra options and warning dialogs until we investigate all of the possible solutions that does more with less.

    I didn't know this is possible. :p This is great and I confirmed the modified password (with allowed symbols) is the one get saved. I think this is good enough.

    Great! Hopefully, our future plans will negate the need to do this as we could use machine learning to figure out the supported symbols in advance but that's far down the line.

    This is editable in 1Password 4.

    This is because back in the age of 1Password 4, 1Password extension wasn't that good, we needed this editing power to address edge cases. This isn't the case anymore but yep, we have plans to do what you're suggesting, drop the stuff we don't need. We can't wait to see if our ideas will work because it will include advanced AI that we never had before.

    Maybe a prompt to discourage user to remove previously saved password (with justification) when they attempt to do so will be better instead of forcefully disable this feature.

    It's the same thing as above. If we do this, we'll have 1000 prompts and warnings about everything you do. At some point, we have to draw the line and focus on the simple experience. We won't be able to make 1Password the flexible app that meets everyone's use case but our mission is to make 1Password easy to use and easy + flexibility is hard to balance.

    I know it's a maintenance headache to do this hence the slow rate of new icons being added

    This is actually a chicken and egg problem, we'd like the idea of crowd sourcing but in order to handle that, we need to build the service to accept and to add a lot of validations to prevent any type of absue.

    We plan to overhaul how all of this works, we just haven't gotten to it yet. Despite the growth we have, we're still a small private development team on each platform and we can't work on everything at the same time. We're working on this, we're getting better at managing this but it'll take some time.

  • leesweetleesweet
    edited June 2018

    @MikeT , can you clarify what this is referring to? I see no such option (and, sorry, I don't know how to quote... :chuffed: ).

    For now, you can rename the items to start with a digit, they'll be sorted as such on top. So, 1. CitiBank will always be on top and it should work on all platforms. Note that 1Password on macOS and iOS need the advanced option to sort by numbers and symbols first to be turned on.

    I was told there is no way to re-sort the favorites in iOS currently... so....?! I know this isn't the iOS forum, but the different behavior between platforms is a major pain. If there's an answer....

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited June 2018

    Hi @leesweet,

    You can quote lines by adding > at the beginning:

    I was told there is no way to re-sort the favorites in iOS currently... so....?! I know this isn't the iOS forum, but the different behavior between platforms is a major pain. If there's an answer....

    I apologize and agree, we shouldn't be inconsistent. In this case, the sort setting is only available on macOS. I've filed a bug report to add that setting to the iOS app and to come up with a cross-platform sorting standard to make this standard everywhere.

    ref: apple-1583

  • Thanks for the quote tip, and thanks for the info on iOS! Definitely need a way to at least get them sorted alpha.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Yep, we're getting more and more aligned in features on all platforms but it is still a long journey ahead.

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