Standalone Syncing Options?

luisvluisv
edited May 2018 in Windows Beta

@brenty Quick question before I spring for the standalone license cost of the Windows beta:

What are the syncing options? I assume it would sync with iOS, but you know what happens when you assume. 8-)


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited May 2018

    Hi @luisv,

    Thanks for the great question.

    1Password 7 for Windows supports Folder Sync and Dropbox at the moment in addition to our own 1Password.com service.

    Dropbox is the best solution for standalone vault syncing, it supports Android, iOS, macOS and Windows.

    1Password.com extends that to 1Password X extensions that runs anywhere Chrome and Firefox runs, including ChromeOS, Linux, and it has a command line interface you can use on Linux or other platforms we support.

    Folder Sync means that you can use any third party local network sync tool or cloud service to sync the 1Password folder, like OneDrive, Google Drive, Resilio Sync and more. Unfortunately, iOS cannot support third party sync services like this since 1Password can't leave its sandbox to sync with any folder on the device. We're working on updating 1Password for Android to support OPVault folders via Folder Sync (it only support legacy Agile Keychains) but we don't have a timeframe on this.

  • All of my questions are for the standalone versions, so please bear with me.

    1. Can you have multiple vaults and sync between those vaults? One being primary.
    2. Can one vault sync via iCloud and the other via a folder?
  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @luisv,

    Can you have multiple vaults and sync between those vaults? One being primary.

    Yes, you can sync all vaults or some.

    Can one vault sync via iCloud and the other via a folder?

    We do not support iCloud on Windows, you can choose to install iCloud Drive on Windows and sync it that way but it is an advanced feature and only works between macOS and Windows, you can't use it on iOS.

  • luisvluisv
    edited May 2018

    Ah, @MikeT would this work...

    • Create second vault
    • Primary syncs with second vault (basically a mirror)
    • Primary syncs with iCloud satisfies my macOS and iOS devices
    • Secondary vault is synced via folder (iCloud drive), install iCloud drive on Windows and this vault is for my Windows PC
  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @luisv,

    Primary syncs with second vault (basically a mirror)

    There's no mirror support, you can't sync from one vault to another vault. 1Password will detect that you're adding a vault that is already in the database.

    You can manually copy items between vaults if you want but you run the risk of conflicts and duplicates, it's not designed to be used like this.

    Primary syncs with iCloud satisfies my macOS and iOS devices
    Secondary vault is synced via folder (iCloud drive), install iCloud drive on Windows and this vault is for my Windows PC

    You can do that but you'll have to do the manual copy every time to update the secondary vault.

    For our curiosity, is there a specific reason you dislike the ideal of 1Password subscription, is it the price only?

  • @MikeT thats what I thought, it wouldn't work as I'm sure the bean counters wouldn't be happy if it did. 8-)

    To be honest, yes... price. I've been a very happy 1Password customer since 2014 and have recommended your software to numerous friends and family. As an example, if it was subscription based when I originally purchased, it would have been a 4 year cost of $143.52 ($2.99 current price), where I believe I paid $60 or less. After 8 years, it's $287.04 instead of $120 or less and so on and so on. Personally, its not an affordability issue, it's the simple fact that anything that is subscription based will be, after time, extremely more expensive for the consumer than a flat license would be. Even if a license was renewed ever 4 years @ $40 or $80, the consumer is still saving money over the subscription pricing model. I firmly believe that people see the monthly price of $2.99 and say, that isn't so expensive; however, once the ligh bulb goes off, they question their decision. It's extremely similar to the cable TV subscription model and look what's happening there... folks are ditching cable, cutting the cord and streaming more and more. That's a whole different discussion, but the fundamental arguement is the same. I get all the features and such that the software has and that's all great and wonderful, but I simply need my logins and passwords to sync between devices in a secure fashion without worry of compromise.

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member
    edited May 2018

    Hi @luisv,

    thats what I thought, it wouldn't work as I'm sure the bean counters wouldn't be happy if it did. 8-)

    It's not that, every vault is randomized with different encryption keys and different item ID. We'd have to manually decrypt each item, scan its content to make sure it is not duplicated. For something that's not commonly done, it's not something we want to add as 1Password is already complex enough.

    This is the same issue with 1Password service, there is no inner-linking between items in different vaults.

    As an example, if it was subscription based when I originally purchased, it would have been a 4 year cost of $143.52 ($2.99 current price), where I believe I paid $60 or less.

    That's assuming you paid for one license. To cover both Windows and macOS, you'd need two separate licenses, $130 ($65*2) plus 20$ for iOS and Android if you use them.

    And you get more with 1Password.com service, such as cloud storage, simple sync, web access, 1Password X, Travel Mode, and so much more.

    Personally, its not an affordability issue, it's the simple fact that anything that is subscription based will be, after time, extremely more expensive for the consumer than a flat license would be.

    That applies to all business models. We used to sell licenses at 30$, it's now 65$. We provided free upgrades a few times but we were a bit too generous about that, they do come at a cost to us.

    Even if a license was renewed ever 4 years @ $40 or $80

    Technically, you don't renew licenses as licenses have no expiration but we sometime provide free upgrades such as in the case of 1Password 5 and 6. We were a bit too generous in that as many of our customers have not paid anything since 2013. Over that time, we've provided hundreds of free updates but they come at a cost. If we did offer paid upgrades for 1Password 4 and 5, then you'd be looking at 2 paid upgrades, 60+30+30, $120 (for just one macOS version), or more as licenses and upgrades do go up in time. If you include Windows and iOS upgrades, you'd be looking at $130+$65+$65 instead.

    That's assuming you want the upgrades. If you never ever upgrade your OS and other software like browsers, then yes, it'll be cheap to go licenses instead.

    We have to continuously update 1Password to improve its security as security changes all the time, that means feeding our developers and their families. Dropbox and iCloud changes their APIs and we have to update 1Password to support them. We also provide customer service, which is a much larger cost for us but that's worth it.

    Eventually, however without a sustainable model, we would go out of business or have to cut out costs elsewhere, such as no customer service for an example.

    We didn't actually build 1Password.com for revenue, we built it because we wanted to simplify the overall 1Password experience for everyone, enough that our parents could use it without having an IT guy manage vaults and syncing for everyone. Majority of our customers have agreed it did for them. Now, we have the best of both worlds now in 1Password 7 for everyone but licenses and standalone vaults have a much higher costs than the 1Password.com service due to various factors.

    But imagine if there was no customer service like me in this thread, you may end up spending more time figuring out how to get 1Password to work on both platforms and I suspect most would probably try a different product instead.

    At some point, 1Password experience degrades even if the apps are solidly built like in the case of iCloud and Dropbox updating their APIs and removing their old API versions. You'd have to pay for an upgrade for a new version to support them, we didn't do this but ship a free update instead.

    but I simply need my logins and passwords to sync between devices in a secure fashion without worry of compromise.

    Even if your subscription expires or you don't renew, you'd still have that. Your 1Password account goes into frozen mode, you'd be able to export or access your data in any 1Password apps until you can renew. It'll remain secured until you explicitly choose to delete your data.

  • it is cheaper to pay sub, they are by law liable for all the data they store on the eu servers, the sub ensures that they are paying for high speed and backup fiber lines on big data centers that have much better physical security than your house, also for centers like the equinix ones, even if the whole country has an outage they will be up and running and unlike dropbox agilebits has to invest on encryption algorithms to ensure that your data can't be spoofed because you logged from a café, trust me, the sub is so much cheaper.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Good points. And for most people the benefit of automatic offsite backup for some of their most important data can't be overstated. That way, even if all your devices are lost, stolen, or destroyed, you just need to sign in on a new device to get the data in your 1Password account back. And, personally, I am happy to have that kind of good news when someone with a membership contacts us after their phone goes into a swimming pool, etc., as opposed to the alternative.

  • Having lost my glasses in the sea (when having them on...), I can easily see me forgetting my phone anywhere on this planet - and forgetting at once, where it was. Besides, with a standalone version, I would still be responsible for the syncing and its security. That is a bad idea, in my case:-). So I am paying for a service which I trust to do it better:-)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I can't argue with that. I won't tell you what I lost in the sea. :lol: Thanks for sharing your perspective!

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