Delete Primary Vault?

I have searched and read for an hour now and still can't find the answer. 1Password 6 on the Mac. I converted the primary vault to opvault. I want to get rid of the primary vault. I've deleted from the app all the secondary vaults. The only vault left is Primary. I do not have a membership or account. I sync with DropBox.

I've seen a million people ask this question. I've seen answers, but the best I can find is @Brenty saying "You have to delete the primary vault last." Okay, but HOW?

With as many times this question has been asked over the years, I would think you would take this as a hint to make it more intuitive. Maybe you did in 7? Sorry, very frustrated.

Jeff


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @kazooless,

    So you would have zero vaults left after deleting the primary vault? In the context brenty described you would have a 1Password.com membership and that would be used to unlock 1Password.

    If you're trying to reset 1Password so you can wire things back up differently from a series of opvault then you would Help -> Troubleshooting -> Reset all 1Password data to put the application into its "requires setup" state.

    Rudy

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @kazooless: We really don't want people deleting vaults in most cases, as that can be a very bad thing. So we give instructions to do that in specific cases as needed, and as part of the 1Password.com migration process once all of the data is safely in the account, for example. I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused, but the context is important — especially when we're talking about deleting data. :dizzy:

  • The reset from the help menu is exactly what I needed.

    Sometimes being overprotective backfires. This should at least be in the documentation. Just put a big warning in there if you’re so concerned. You make it easy to “delete” secondary vaults so I don’t see consistency here.

    The other problem is there was no documentation I could find explaining that “delete” just means “remove” or “unlink” from the app. Even the warning language says something like “you’re getting rid of the data.” That isn’t true. I had to create a test vault, sync it in Dropbox, and “delete” it just to make sure it wasn’t actually deleting the file.

    There is so much of Agilebits I am a big fan of. I absolutely feel it is the best commercial PW vault available. But this experience definitely didn’t fit. As long as “deleting” doesn’t actually delete a file, you should make this easier and more intuitive. Rename it properly, add appropriate warnings and I think you’d have an improved product. Just my 2 cents.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    The reset from the help menu is exactly what I needed.

    @kazooless: Glad that helped! :chuffed:

    Sometimes being overprotective backfires. This should at least be in the documentation.

    Resetting the app is in the documentation. That's what I linked to. I don't think that's overprotective. :)

    Just put a big warning in there if you’re so concerned. You make it easy to “delete” secondary vaults so I don’t see consistency here.

    The process for deleting secondary vaults is nearly identical. You have to confirm both.

    The other problem is there was no documentation I could find explaining that “delete” just means “remove” or “unlink” from the app. Even the warning language says something like “you’re getting rid of the data.” That isn’t true. I had to create a test vault, sync it in Dropbox, and “delete” it just to make sure it wasn’t actually deleting the file.

    When you remove the vault from 1Password or disable sync, you're asked if you also want to delete the vault in Dropbox.

    There is so much of Agilebits I am a big fan of. I absolutely feel it is the best commercial PW vault available. But this experience definitely didn’t fit. As long as “deleting” doesn’t actually delete a file, you should make this easier and more intuitive. Rename it properly, add appropriate warnings and I think you’d have an improved product. Just my 2 cents.

    It's a good suggestion. But given that we added this option right in the app (it used involve actually going and deleting the support folder manually) and documented it, it seems that we've already done that.

  • @brenty,

    We must be referring to different products and a different thread. Maybe I’m blind but I see no link at all from you or anyone above.

    You say the procedure is nearly identical. What?

    @Rudy gave specific instructions and it is completely different than what to do to “delete” secondary vaults. For Primary you have to go to the help menu, troubleshooting and then completely reset the entire program to defaults. That’s a lot different than going to the application menu and choosing delete. And I can’t find that in the documentation.

    What you refer to with Dropbox above also didn’t happen.

    This is the weirdest reply I’ve ever read from you. It is literally like you’re referring to a different program (and thread).

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @kazooless: Sorry for the confusion. You said,

    I've seen answers, but the best I can find is @Brenty saying "You have to delete the primary vault last." Okay, but HOW?

    That's referencing another discussion wherein another 1Password user was trying to get rid of their superfluous Primary vault after migrating to an account, like so:

    https://support.1password.com/migrate-1password-account/#set-up-your-other-devices

    And I replied to you with,

    we give instructions to do that in specific cases as needed, and as part of the 1Password.com migration process once all of the data is safely in the account, for example.

    Up until your most recent reply, there was no indication that you weren't on the same page with me there, even if we perhaps disagree on some points (I'm not sure we could disagree otherwise).

    The instructions Rudy gave you above are also taken from another support article regarding how to "reset" 1Password:

    https://support.1password.com/starting-over/

    Again, I apologize if you were referring to something else, but since you @-mentioned me here seemingly quoting me verbatim I really thought we were on the same page. If you have questions about any of this, let me know.

  • Is there a solution to this yet? You can't use the "Migrate Primary Vault to Account..." tool, because that will create duplicates after you do it on say, your laptop, and then your desktop. This is in the process of being force-graded to the subscription model, where the vault is now called "Personal" instead of "Primary". This upgrade process is atrocious if you have, say, a laptop AND a desktop computer. I managed to get the Primary vault off of iCloud and down to a single computer and a local vault, and still can't delete the final "Primary" vault.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Is there a solution to this yet? You can't use the "Migrate Primary Vault to Account..." tool, because that will create duplicates after you do it on say, your laptop, and then your desktop.

    @monfster: Why would you do that? Move your data on a single device (as described in the account migration guide), and then setup any additional devices with that account (also covered at the end of the guide). Can you be specific about what you're doing when you run into trouble?

    This is in the process of being force-graded to the subscription model, where the vault is now called "Personal" instead of "Primary". This upgrade process is atrocious if you have, say, a laptop AND a desktop computer. I managed to get the Primary vault off of iCloud and down to a single computer and a local vault, and still can't delete the final "Primary" vault.

    To be clear, no one is "forced" to use a 1Password.com membership. You will not be able to remove the Primary vault though if it is the only vault setup in 1Password. If you switch to your account in the app instead, are you able to disable the local vaults feature in 1Password Preferences > Advanced?

  • monfstermonfster
    edited September 2018

    Where I'm running into trouble is exactly as I described. If the process is to do it on one device and then install on others, the first step should be to uninstall the old 1Password on all devices except for the one you do initial upgrade on - perhaps that should be in BIG BOLD LETTERS in the install program - this question is asked all the time on these forums, and at some point Agile Bits has to look at the process and not blame it all on PEBKAC errors. I doubt that many people are going to anticipate that the first step in upgrading 1Password to 1Password7 is to uninstall on all save one device.

    As to "force" upgraded, what I ran into was I installed 1Password7 over the old 1Password. Never saw a migration guide until after the fact, as I didn't realize that "registering" with 1Password was actually creating another vault. I just downloaded the program and installed it, figured the install process had been made as easy and uncomplicated as possible. Yes, I can downgrade, but I just went through the hassle of upgrading. So, maybe not forced, but certainly I'm willing to just pay to end. Plus, if I do follow the upgrade path, delete my old Primary vault and just have the Personal vault left (which becomes read-only if you don't pay), then I have to reverse the process using 1pif files if I want to downgrade.

    I see you defending this, but have you actually reviewed how Joe Average would approach installing this as an upgrade? It is NOT intuitive. Instead of defending it, how about just giving me a way to get rid of this last vault, or at least tell me where it's stored on my disk so I can do it manually.

    As to disabling the local vault(s), I'm able to do that, but I still get "Duplicate password" errors.

    With all due respect, the install process needs to be reworked.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Where I'm running into trouble is exactly as I described. If the process is to do it on one device and then install on others, the first step should be to uninstall the old 1Password on all devices except for the one you do initial upgrade on - perhaps that should be in BIG BOLD LETTERS in the install program -

    @monfster: With all due respect, bold letters don't get read either when people aren't reading the instructions in the first place. It's a difficult problem, and we're aware of it, but I don't know that there's really a solution. When someone is using — by definition, not yet having migrated to an account — various apps all with different local vault setups, there just isn't any way that 1Password on one device can magically know about the others, much less determine user intent.

    this question is asked all the time on these forums, and at some point Agile Bits has to look at the process and not blame it all on PEBKAC errors. I doubt that many people are going to anticipate that the first step in upgrading 1Password to 1Password7 is to uninstall on all save one device.

    To be clear, uninstalling 1Password is not any of the steps in the migration process. I think there's still room for improvement, but you're greatly exaggerating the number of people having this issue. If it was a large number of people, we'd be buried and I'd unable to respond to you now.

    I doubt that many people are going to anticipate that the first step in upgrading 1Password to 1Password7 is to uninstall on all save one device.

    That's not what's involved at all. If you follow all of the steps in the migration guide, that will take you through setting up your account on all devices, without duplicating any data. We can't account for everything that people do, but it's fairly comprehensive, and when in doubt we're here to help. We can't help when people don't contact us though.

    I didn't realize that "registering" with 1Password was actually creating another vault. I just downloaded the program and installed it, figured the install process had been made as easy and uncomplicated as possible.

    I'm really sorry about that, and I think we could maybe make that clearer. It sounds like you just needed to choose the option to use your existing data

    Yes, I can downgrade, but I just went through the hassle of upgrading. So, maybe not forced, but certainly I'm willing to just pay to end. Plus, if I do follow the upgrade path, delete my old Primary vault and just have the Personal vault left (which becomes read-only if you don't pay), then I have to reverse the process using 1pif files if I want to downgrade.

    I see you defending this, but have you actually reviewed how Joe Average would approach installing this as an upgrade? It is NOT intuitive.

    If you go back you'll see the changes we've made to the setup flow over the past year, in direct response to user feedback.

    Instead of defending it, how about just giving me a way to get rid of this last vault, or at least tell me where it's stored on my disk so I can do it manually.

    Rather than "defending" anything, I'm saying that this is how it works, and if you have suggestions for improvements we'll be happy to hear them. As far as getting rid of vaults, did you try what I suggested?

    Move your data on a single device (as described in the account migration guide), and then setup any additional devices with that account (also covered at the end of the guide). Can you be specific about what you're doing when you run into trouble?

    It would also be helpful if you'd answer my question. I'm not sure where you're at.

    As to disabling the local vault(s), I'm able to do that, but I still get "Duplicate password" errors.

    Can you clarify? What is the specific error you're seeing? If it's simpler, take a screenshot. To include it in your reply, simply click the document button in the top of the comment field, and select the file you wish to share:


     
    Just be sure not to post anything sensitive, as this is a public forum. Thanks in advance!

    With all due respect, the install process needs to be reworked.

    It has been, but we're open to any specific suggestions you have. It doesn't sound like you had any trouble at all installing though, but signed up for a new account instead of using the standalone app with your existing data. I don't think we can reasonably stop you or anyone else from doing that when they've expressly selected that option, but we'll see if we can make things clearer as we continue to develop future versions.

  • Yes, the install process went well on the first machine, but it didn't actually delete the iCloud "Primary" vault, though it appeared to on that one device. That's pretty much the essence of my problem, the iCloud vault not deleting from all devices when I delete it from one - I can see both ways as to why you may want to or not want to allow that.

    I was able to delete it from the second device, but not the final device, which only gave me the option of turning it into local file. (so - installed on macbook pro, then ios device, then macmini desktop, which is stuck with the final local file). This may be an Apple iCloud syncing issue, for all I know.

    As to why I signed up for an account, that's what the webpage successfully persuaded me to do.

  • LarsLars Junior Member

    Team Member

    @monfster - thanks for the clarification. On the final device that you say you couldn't remove the Primary vault from, are we referring to a Mac here, or an iOS device? Can you please share with us the specific OS version, 1Password version and number of vaults (and how they're synced) on that final device now? Thanks in advance.

  • The final device is a mac mini running macos high sierra - 10.13.6 (17G65), 1Password7 7.2.1 (70201002). There is a local vault named Primary (not syncing with anything) and an agile bits hosted vault named Personal that is synced. Primary vault is empty and excluded from "All Vaults", so 2 vaults total. Thanks for your help.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @monfster: Thanks for following up. Indeed, there are a lot of considerations. Not to mention that it just isn't possible for the Primary vault to be deleted on other devices automatically when you only remove it on one. I can see how that would be convenient, but we shy away from having 1Password delete stuff without the user explicitly choosing to do so. Better safe than sorry, but I apologize for the confusion that's caused you here.

    It sounds like you're pretty much okay now, but I do want to suggest two things to make sure you don't have any further issues down the road:

    1. Make sure you have the "default vault for saving" set to what you want, presumably a vault in your 1Password account, in Preferences > Vaults.
    2. Remove the Primary vault by disabling the local vaults feature in Preferences > Advanced (presuming you have no data in that vault which you still need)
    3. Or, if you have all of your data in your account already, reset the app and then set it up with only your account this time.

    I think that should tie up any loose ends, but please let me know if you have questions about anything. And have a great weekend! :)

  • ooglekooglek Junior Member
    edited August 14

    I had some trouble with this. I was using 1Password 6 and had a Dropbox-sync'ed AgileKeychain vault.

    When I upgraded to 1Password 7 on my iMac (main desktop) this moved my Dropbox data to AgileKeychainLegacy (or similar) which broke syncing on my iPhones, iPads and other Macs.

    Generally the process is to delete the Vaults on the other devices and start from scratch using the new Dropbox OPVault format that was migrated when I first installed 1P 7.

    I was still using 1P 6 on my Macbook when I tried to Delete my Primary Vault so I could use the new OPVault. But 1 Password > Delete Vault was grayed out, Preferences > Advanced > Allow Creation of Vaults ... was checked but un-uncheckable, as was Help > Troubleshooting > Reset All 1P Data. Thus I could not delete my Primary Vault.

    So I installed 1P 7, then was able to Reset All 1P Data and setup my correct Primary Dropbox sync'ed vault using the OPVault format.

    Not a great process, but I'm still a License-holder rather than an Account-holder and prefer to manage my data myself. I understand that us license-holders are a minority.

    Despite some of the process frustration, 1P is still one of the best and most valuable pieces of software I use hourly.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Thanks for chiming in here as well ooglek. :)

    Ben

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