1Password ⌘ \ keyboard shortcut in 3rd party apps [intentional, but can be worked around]

kpclements

Before 1Password 7, I could use the key command ⌘+\ in other apps (in my case, Logic Pro) and the main 1Password window wouldn't show up. But now I can no longer use that command because the 1Password window appears. Is there any way to tell 1Password not to "listen" to certain apps?

I have so much muscle memory using both key commands to either fill in passwords when in safari, or go to a location in Logic Pro. It would be a real issue to have to relearn one or the other. So many things to like about V7, but this is a problem for me.

Thanks
kc

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1Password Version: 7
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.13.5
Sync Type: Not Provided
Referrer: forum-search:key command conflicts

Lars

Welcome to the forum, @kpclements! Yep, what you've discovered is that, as of 1Password 7 for Mac, ⌘\ (Command‑Backslash) is a global shortcut. If you use the same shortcut in other apps, you’ll need to either change the keyboard shortcut for “Fill Login or Show 1Password” in 1Password > Preferences > General, or change the keyboard shortcut in your other app to something other than ⌘\. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but I don't see this one changing any time soon. Thanks for writing in and letting us know your use-case, however!

kpclements

Thanks Lars. But that is a problem for me. Logic Pro has 100s if not 1000s of keycommands - so finding one that wont conflict will be a difficult task - and again, it goes against years of muscle memory.

Also, why would I ever need 1Password in any but a couple apps? I would’nt need it in Excel, or Numbers, or Pages, or Illustrator... on a regular basis. And when I do, the mini menu bar app works perfectly well.

I’m a huge fan of 1Password - and been a user since V1. But you all should have given us an option to have this “feature” turned on or off, or better yet, select Apps to turn off. Hopefully you can add this in, or else I won’t be able to conitue using the latest version.

Is it possible to go back to V6?

kpclements

OK - I went back to v6 for now. Hopefully this will become an option to turn this off. Otherwise, I am stuck on v6. Makes it harder to keep my subscription active if this isn't changed. I think I am better off paying for the stand alone app v6, rather than keep paying for a subscription if I can't use v7 or v8 or v9.....

danco

I don't see the problem. As @Lars has said, you can just change the 1PW shortcut.

Do you have too much muscle memory invested to change the 1PW shortcut? I can see that this could be a reason for allowing 1PW to turn off cmd-\ for specific apps, but it just adds complications to the program when changing the shortcut is already a possibility.

TonyHall

@Lars 1Password already has a global keyboard shortcut for "Show 1Password" ie. Opt-Cmd-\

Why duplicate that unecessarily with Cmd-\ when it causes problems for users with this new global implementation?

Undoubtedly I'm missing something mind-numbingly obvious. :)

Many thanks.

Lars

@kpclements - I do understand your situation, and I'm glad you got yourself to a place you're comfortable with by re-installing version 6. However, I don't think that's a great solution for the indefinite future either, as version 6 is now firmly in the "legacy" category and likely won't be developed further, unless a critical security patch is needed.

@danco had it pretty much on the money - you're able to change (presumably) either other apps' shortcuts OR 1Password's shortcut, so we're unlikely to add complexity and the potential for problems by making this a selectable option. To answer @TonyHall's question as well, there are differences between ⌘\ and ⌥⌘\. The main one is that ⌥⌘\ ONLY opens the mini. ⌘\ not only opens the mini, it searches for the current login (if appropriate in context) and fills it.

We're not unsympathetic to the notion of having to relearn muscle memory that would have to take place by changing the command in either Logic (or other apps) or in 1Password. But ⌥⌘\ is also known/used by a FAR smaller portion of our user-base than is ⌘\, and that means we'd be affecting a far, far larger number of our users by removing ⌘\ or changing the key-commands needed to perform the functions that it used to perform -- and that includes trying to convince that much larger (and, to be frank, typically much less tech-savvy) population to now remember to use ⌥⌘\ instead of ⌘\.

Sure, we have an entire support page dedicated to all of our keyboard shortcuts, but we're talking about muscle memory here, and the inconvenience of re-patterning it. And again, the keyboard command that's by orders of magnitude most widely-recognized (and used) is ⌘\. We'd be (rightly) deluged with issues from customers telling us that "filling is broken"...because they didn't take the time to understand that ⌥⌘\ only calls the mini, not searches/fills.

We're also looking towards the future with this one -- the day is coming when we'll be able to fill into apps as well, hopefully -- and 1Password will be ready for it, without having to teach a steadily-growing userbase to learn an entirely new command.

kpclements

Well - I guess that means I will be looking elsewhere for my password management needs.

It's not just a matter of muscle memory. Logic Pro (the app I use every day for my job) has 100s of key commands. I can almost guarantee that anything I choose for 1Password has already been taken by Logic Pro. This is also true for Pro Tools, Cubase, Final Cut, - a lot of Pro apps. The fact that 1password now hijacks those key commands is crazy. So short of using 8 finger key commands to fill in a password, I am stuck.

All the variations of the "\" key I use all the time for navigation in Logic: \ calls up a dialog box. ⌘+\ returns me to the last position in the time line. ⇧+⌘+\ takes me to the beginning of the region and so on. So maybe use the "]" key - well that and all its variations are used as well. Same with the "[" and the "=" and so on. I am guessing this is true with most of the pro audio/video apps.

And yes, I can change the kc in Logic. But, I spend 90% of my day in Logic and very little of it in 1password - so it's a bit much to ask me to relearn my main program to satisfy a (albeit great) program I use less than a couple times a day. Again, assuming I can find a convenient kc that isn't already taken.

Also the Logic kc are organized and grouped, so the \ key has to do with navigation, the = key with zooming and such, the ] key controls different modes....

I have talked with a number of friends who are in the same boat. One was about to update to v7 and he won't be able to because of the same issues.

@lars: I'm not saying 1Password needs to change the way it works. I like that shortcut in 1Password. I just wish we had the option to turn global off. I don't see that as unnecessary complexity to the app. Add a option in the settings with the default being on. Then those few of us can turn it off as needed.

It just seems like you are ruling out anyone that uses an app with extensive key command use.

Thanks - I don't mean to sound defensive or like a jerk. I do really love 1Password. But it looks like this is where we part ways once v6 no longer works. And if that is the case, why would I continue to subscribe to a service/app I can't upgrade?

Lars

@kpclements

The fact that 1password now hijacks those key commands is crazy.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that's not the case. The ONLY change is to ⌘\, which is now global. All other keyboard commands in 1Password function as they did previously.

I guess that means I will be looking elsewhere for my password management needs.

We'd certainly be sorry to see you go -- but as long as you're using something for your password management needs, that's the important thing. I do wonder, however, how much muscle memory or relearning of previously-ingrained neural pathways you'll have to do by transferring to another solution with different commands/UI, however?

kpclements

Lars - sorry, let's forget about muscle memory for the moment.

What key command can I use in 1password that isn't already taken in Logic Pro? No matter what key command I choose, it is very likely it will conflict with one already used in Logic Pro when I am in that program because 1Password will hijack that key command. If I change it to ⌘` it will still conflict with that command in Logic Pro.

So, changing that particular command in 1Password will just change which key set is unavailable in Logic, correct?

And yes - changing from 1Password to another would be a huge pain. But I would have to use one without global reach - and hopefully can assign the same key commands. So maybe not that bad.

The issue is the global reach 1Password demands. It isn't about retraining or muscle memory (I only brought that up as an "also"). But any key command I assign to 1Password will take that combination away from using it in Logic, yes?

OK - seems like I have beat this horse enough.Thanks. Again, Hope I haven't come off as an ass. Just hopeful you will have a change of heart and add an option to turn off global settings.

Lars

@kpclements - you haven't "come off as an ass," you're advocating for your own use case, which is expected. You sound like the very definition of a power user -- of multiple products -- so I've no doubt that you could navigate a substantial amount of complexity/options anywhere, including 1Password.

Our problem is that we can't design for any one set of users exclusively, because doing so by definition excludes the use-cases, perspective, desires and skill level of other groups. If you've got an endless supply of time on your hands (LOL), have a look back over the number of times just on this forum, and just since the launch of 7.0beta, that a user has asked for "just a toggle/preference" for this or that feature/setting. I'm guessing it's more than you imagine. And while we're aware that every addition of such nature would indeed allow for a greater range of people to be satisfied/happy, it's equally true that it does add complexity to the app both in terms of UI and in terms of the underlying code paths necessary to support multiple different options, and making sure they function identically (or at least seamlessly to the user).

We have always got a pretty lengthy list of feature requests, improvements and bug fixes on our plates, to say nothing of preparing new features for future versions as well, so it's a matter of asking several questions: who does this affect/how many users? Are there potential downsides of doing this? What is the cost in terms of developer/designer cycles? What is the opportunity cost (i.e. what else either won't get done or will be delayed to make room for this)? Are there security or data loss concerns? And multiple other factors. I'm guessing you're either already aware of this or you can easily imagine it; my point in being explicit is that not everyone reading these forums will be, so it's an opportunity for us to share our process on what goes into various decisions on what to pursue, what to pass on, and what to put in the "not now" category. We'll certainly take your wishes into account as we move forward to refine 1Password 7, but I'd be misleading you if I said I could give you any idea of whether this might get any traction. Thanks for taking the time to engage.

kpclements

I understand what you are saying Lars. And I know what seems like a simple addition to me - not being a programmer - is perhaps not that simple.

Thanks for your thoughts. I will try and find a reasonable solution to changing out that key command that works.

Cheers

Lars

:) :+1:

AGAlumB

@kpclements: I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with us. I guess our main concern is that while you can advocate for yourself and your particular use case, we're in a position where we sort of have to advocate for everyone else. If we make a change to accommodate your use case, it can have repercussions for many others (though I suspect others who spend their days in Logic will appreciate it!)

In case it helps, there isn't a simple way to do a per-app behaviour modification. This means going back to registering and unregistering the shortcut as the active application changes, which is a great way to end up with reliability issues and unpredictable behaviour. And having it turned off for 3rd party apps globally will likely have ramifications for even you down the road if and when it becomes possible to have 1Password fill in more places. If you had to choose between preventing ⌘ \ from triggering 1Password in Logic and having it work in other apps, what would you do? If the answer is that Logic is so critical to your workflow that you'd be willing to give up 1Password everywhere else, well...there's actually a solution to that right now: disable the shortcut and use the menu bar icon, browser toolbar icon, or ⌘ ⌥ \. So that may be sufficient already.

I apologize in advance that this may sound insensitive, but I think we've got to seriously consider that it's much easier for a power user like you to learn a new behaviour or keyboard shortcut than the average user. Again, that's a crappy thing to say, but I hope you'll appreciate that I'm in a similar position as you with regard to my computer usage: I've got a lot of very specific workflows and a lot of muscle memory, and it sucks whenever I have to change them. But it's far easier for me to change than another 1Password user who spends less time on their computer. Just by dint of time and repetition, I can get more practice with something new and learn it "faster". But, in contrast to your situation, I've got to think about stuff like this from the perspective of those other folks out there using 1Password, and how changes to the way this works can negatively impact the person who would never discover that 1Password could match their iTunes login for them if it didn't come up with ⌘ \. So while I appreciate that the current situation is not ideal, I'm not sure that the alternative is a slam dunk either, and I do think it hurts the greater population of non-power-users a bit harder in some ways. Again, that's not to diminish the impact of this on your workflow, as I'd feel the same way in your shoes. But I would argue that at the same time we also have an advantage as power users in being able to adjust. If also happen to be a Final Cut user, I'm sure you already know a lot about that! It can be painful, but there's gain to be had too.

Going back a bit, the current behaviour of ⌘ \ is very intentional, as it allows users to easily access logins for apps (I just used this to grab my Simplenote credentials) instead of just being limited to the browser. But I wanted to share that JamesD offered a cool hack to enable the behaviour that you and some others are asking for — excluding certain apps:

1Password ⌘ \ shortcut active in other apps [intentional, but can be modified using 3rd party tool]

So perhaps that helps in your case as well. This is something we'll continue to evaluate though, so again, your comments are greatly appreciated. Thank you for sharing them with us! :)

kpclements

Hello @brenty -

First - thanks for continuing this discussion. As I have said before I am a big fan of 1Password and Agile Bits. And my frustration comes because I love 1Password so much.

I understand your position (as best a non-programmer can). I get that my use of 1Password won't be like many - if any - others and I can appreciate the position you are in as you write the code and add features. And what ever you do, you interrupt some customers workflow.

The reason I use - and have used since v1- 1Password is it does one thing really well - keep my data safe. I get that this new global command doesn't really change that - but it does complicate things for me.

The second thing I love about 1Psssword: It works when I need it and is out of mind when I don't. I don't have to think about it. ⌘\ and it just works. Love it.

I would argue your point about adding an option can cause instability. While I don't doubt that can be true, many other apps have navigated these waters with success. The first one that comes to mind is TextExpander. Here you can choose which apps to expand in and just like 1Password - there when you want it, gone when you don't.

I really appreciate the work around link and help from the other member. But honestly, I expect a bit more from Agile Bits. I don't know if that is fair or not - but I do. I have found you to be a company that prides itself on customer service and paying attention to details. This seems like a bit of a reversal of that. Perhaps over stating it, but it does feel a that way. I hold some developers to a higher standard, and for better or worse Agile Bits is one of those. I would have hoped that in development of this addition you would have thought of your power users and how this would affect them. This is a big transition and it seems like an option to turn it off would have been a good way to ease us old folks into the new era.

Thank you.

Kayle

kpclements

On a side note - the discussion thread title of this thread was changed to exactly match another thread. I don't know if that was intentional, and you could merge the two topics if you like. But it is a bit strange/confusing to have two threads with the exact same topic title.

AGAlumB

On a side note - the discussion thread title of this thread was changed to exactly match another thread. I don't know if that was intentional, and you could merge the two topics if you like. But it is a bit strange/confusing to have two threads with the exact same topic title.

@kpclements: I intentionally kept them different so they could be differentiated. And I kept them separate because there are separate conversations going on in each. I thought it would have been weird for me to merge this discussion you started, which is rather focused, with another. I'm sorry for any confusion I caused you though.

I love TextExpander and use it constantly (I literally just did to start this comment), but I would never hold it up as an example of stability or reliability. It's too useful for me to ever consider ditching it, but it's not winning any award in that area. ;)

Anyway, we're not saying that we won't consider making tweaks to this. We've already been doing that with other things in 4 updates since 1Password 7 launched. But we're always going to prioritize the work we do based on where we can do the most good for the greatest number of 1Password users.

I'm sorry that you feel that our customer service is lacking. Certainly we could always stand to improve. But I think the amount of time that we're devoting to this dialogue with not only you but many, many others about this and various other things speaks to the contrary. But if an immediate change based on your request is what you're expecting, then we're going to have to disappoint you for now. We have to consider all other 1Password users and evaluate their feedback as well as we continue working to improve it. I'm sorry I can't give you the answer you want right now, but I'm glad you took the time to share your opinion with us. That's the only way we'll be able to take it into account along with the rest. :blush:

kylegach

I would argue your point about adding an option [to disable within certain apps] can cause instability. While I don't doubt that can be true, many other apps have navigated these waters with success. The first one that comes to mind is TextExpander. Here you can choose which apps to expand in and just like 1Password - there when you want it, gone when you don't.

This is what I came here to say. Another (free) app to reference with this very useful functionality: https://matthewpalmer.net/rocket/

If it truly is complex enough to be detrimental to your app's reliability and stability, then I understand, but I'm surprised that's the case, given all of the prior art here. Regardless, I really appreciate the time you've taken to explain the situation and your rationale. The global shortcut is a cool feature and one that will likely help the non-power users quite a bit — kudos for that! I just hope it can help the power users, too.

kpclements

Hi @brenty

just a couple things - First, I apologize for inferring your customer service is lacking - I didn't say that, and I certainly didn't mean to imply it. Agile Bits customer service is at the top on my list. And that has not changed with this conversation.

What I was trying to say (and I should have left the whole customer service bit out of it) is that I hold Agile Bits to a higher standard than most software devs I use, and I feel a bit let down by this change. That's just my opinion and I know that you have more than me as a customer.

I certainly wasn't expecting anything to change over night because of this thread or my desires for the direction of 1Password, so again, I apologize it that is how I came off.

OK - truly I have beat this horse enough and will now retire from any future comments on this. I'm pretty sure you understand my viewpoint, and I your's. :)

Thanks again.
Kayle

AGAlumB

@kpclements: No need to apologize. Constructive criticism is welcome, and you're right: we could do better. You're also right that we let you and some others down with this change. It's difficult to take all use cases into account, even with our best efforts. And where we've fallen short I apologize. We know the current situation isn't ideal. I'm not sure that we'll be able to satisfy everyone, but I've shared your feedback with the rest of the team for us to wrestle with as we decide what our next move should be. Thanks for being passionate enough to call us on the carpet when we make a change that negatively impacts you. We'll see what we can come up with.

kpclements

We’re good, @brenty. Thank you and the team for both the product and the conversation.

AGAlumB

Likewise, thanks for your support and your honesty. :blush:

wesley

Please consider adding back an option for the old shortcut "Fill login on current web page". It's really frustrating having to change short cuts in other apps or writing complicated scripts to work around this issue.

Lars

Welcome to the forum, @wesley! Thanks for weighing in on this issue. To be clear, the shortcut for "fill login on current web page" is still the same in 1Password 7 for Mac as it has been for some time: command + backslash ( ⌘\ ).

wesley

Thanks for the response @Lars . I understand that, the problem that this thread is discussing is that the shortcut is now global. It is now called "Fill login or Show 1Password". I'm asking for the old behavior back in a non-global shortcut.

AGAlumB

Thanks for the feedback! :)

heymcfly

+1 for "ignore keyboard shortcuts in certain apps." I, like the OP, operate many apps with complicated keyboard shortcuts daily, and it is really annoying to be constantly juggling their shortcuts because of your 1Pass' global access.

Also, I really wish y'all would have been a bit more receptive and actually read OPs post more clearly before responding. The negativity behind "sorry, your use case isn't what we designed for" is a poor response (I say this as a digital product designer for over a decade now). 1Pass is solving some shit hard problems...one of those is how to integrate into millions of users' daily workflows.

Lars

@heymcfly - thanks for weighing in. You're quite right: we do have to integrate ourselves into people's existing workflows. The trouble for us as developers and designers is that not everyone has the same workflow. As a technical support person, I quite often find myself answering two tickets in a day from different people, asking for literally the exact opposite thing. We still haven't figured out a way to satisfy both of them. ;) I'm not trying to be glib, and I'm not asking for folks to take pity on us or anything like that -- just trying to offer a window into what goes into our decision-making, and why some requests may not be pursued.

We truly do love hearing from our user base, because it means people care enough to invest their own time in letting us know when they see something they think ought to be addressed. I'll take that over apathy or dead silence any day. But unless we're able to figure out a way to make 1Password all things to all people, there will always be edge cases that aren't accounted for - or even possible - with the current makeup of the app/service.

quickbyte

Just wanted to add a +1 in the "this change has affected me" category.

I'm totally satisfied by the [as always] impressive AgileBits team member responses (thanks @Lars and @brenty), and I will probably simply make the adjustment to a new shortcut for filling passwords, if an alternative solution doesn't appear. But this is an unexpected change that broke my workflows.

My humble suggestion/request would be to implement the "Fill Password (⌘\)" shortcut in the browser extensions, rather than having a global "fill" shortcut at all (and avoiding any complex UI for whitelisting applications).

Sure, there are times when you need 1Password information in a non-browser setting, but for that you still have the "Show 1Password (⌥⌘\)" configurable shortcut, or the menubar icon. As far as I'm aware, 1Password can't actually fill information in other apps anyway, given the Mac-app-store sandbox.

For what it's worth (and FYI), the keyboard shortcuts page still describes the old behavior.

Lars

@quickbyte

As far as I'm aware, 1Password can't actually fill information in other apps anyway, given the Mac-app-store sandbox.

Not yet. :) But that's what this change lays the groundwork for.

AGAlumB

@quickbyte: Unfortunately it isn't possible to use ⌘ \ (and many, many other keyboard shortcuts) in just the browser. If you've used 1Password X, which runs entirely in the browser, you've probably noticed that it can't use that keyboard shortcut to anything remotely like it. The way we're able to use that at all (and also allow customization (so that nearly any other available key combination can be used) is because the native app handles that. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. :)