Standalone versus subscription upgrade

This discussion was created from comments split from: Locked Out of 1P 7 With Only a Standalone License After Automatic Update.
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Comments

  • Karel
    Karel
    Community Member

    @Stephen_C Errr... where has your message in this thread gone about the appalling way that Agilebits tries to lure people into their monthly subscription plan? It was spot on. Did you censor yourself?

  • steven1
    steven1
    Community Member

    Agilebits allowed free upgrades for a couple of years that 'lured' us into thinking upgrades would be free for life. Clearly, that is not sustainable (it is not FOSS and even that is not really 'free').

    I have issues if 1P were to become cloud only (I work in a hybrid families account + local vaults) but I am happy to support 1P with a families subscription. Everyone has their own value for 1P, but for me the 'Internet would break' without 1P (or a similarly useful, easy to use substitute) and so I am incentivised to support them to innovate.

  • Stephen_C
    Stephen_C
    Community Member

    @Karel:

    Did you censor yourself?

    No, I'm not very good at keeping my mouth shut! ;)

    I suspect the post you mention was in a different thread but I can't find it just at the moment among my post history as I seem to have posted in rather a lot of threads - and have quite often referred, in firm but moderate language, to what I regard as some rather, let's say, over persuasive programming on the part of AgileBits which seems to be part of a huge push towards the subscription model.

    I do appreciate that the purported ease of the subscription model may be just what some need and seek (although the upgrade from 1Password 6 and transfer to 1Password.com seems to have left a number of users baffled with the apparent complexity). However, I do suspect a very strong commercial undercurrent colours the programming.

    All that said, I've no wish to fall out with AgileBits. The company has a splendid product and I shall continue to use it so long as standalone licences are available.

    I don't think I've been censored. I don't believe AgileBits would do that in respect of any post that is not obviously trolling or offensive,

    Stephen

  • Karel
    Karel
    Community Member
    edited June 2018

    @Stephen_C No, I've only visited this thread on the past few days, and I'm 100% sure that you had a nice summary written down of what is wrong with the way Agilebits is pushing their subscriptions. It's getting quite annoying IMO. They have also set a precedent allowing their (semi) auto-updater actually upgrade my standalone copy of 1PW 6 to 1PW 7 (trial?). This is something I have never seen anyone try in my 30+ year IT carreer. It is an unwritten rule that software developers don't do that. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem upgrading if the reasons are compelling enough. But I don't want to be lured into an upgrade through a (semi) auto-updater. As I said, I'm getting quite annoyed with the agressiveness in which Agilebits is pushing upgrades and their subscription licenses for the last couple of years.
    But maybe this is in fact an error in their updater, because I'm using both a subscription (work) and a standalone license (private use). I'm under the impression that I'm just using the standalone 1PW application, but maybe the updater sees my subscription and allows me to upgrade without cost. It's messy either way, because I don't like the way 1PW 7 works and had to downgrade.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @Stephen_C, @karel, @steven1: I don't think that's really pertinent to what KevinLH is requesting help with here. If any of you need help setting up 1Password with a standalone license yourselves, I'll be happy to help. Just start a new discussion and @-mention me. :)

    I've definitely done some "censoring" recently, but that involved language that's arguably inappropriate in polite company anywhere. I wouldn't peg Stephen_C for one to cross that line. But you never know, I guess! ;lol

    Anyway, if we were trying to force people into 1Password.com memberships, we'd have saved ourselves the trouble of building support for local vaults into new versions and redesigning the setup process to accommodate them. :tongue:

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @Karel: I know the post you're referring to, and it was never part of this discussion. Stephen_C tends to stay on topic, and is always super helpful to the folks he replies to, so I would have noticed it as being pretty out of character and out of place.

    They have also set a precedent allowing their (semi) auto-updater actually upgrade my standalone copy of 1PW 6 to 1PW 7 (trial?).

    We've yet to encounter a case — ever — where someone using only local vaults is automatically updated to a new version that is a paid upgrade. We always give people a choice. And, in fact, to this day we still hear from people who wonder (though some are pretty miffed) why we never offered them an upgrade to 1Password 4. In fact, we did, but they dismissed it permanently and completely forgot in the intervening years.

    But I don't want to be lured into an upgrade through a (semi) auto-updater. As I said, I'm getting quite annoyed with the agressiveness in which Agilebits is pushing upgrades and their subscription licenses for the last couple of years.

    We really don't. First, upgrading to 1Password 7 doesn't require you to switch to a subscription. But most of all, though we introduced 1Password.com memberships more than two years ago now, I'm talking to folks every day who are like, "Why didn't you tell us about this?" I don't think we're aggressive about this at all, and certainly many of our customers agree (and some are miffed that we didn't send them some sort of notification). But if we somehow are, then we're pretty inept, or we wouldn't have people who want 1Password.com memberships telling us we should have been more assertive in making them aware that they existed.

    But maybe this is in fact an error in their updater, because I'm using both a subscription (work) and a standalone license (private use). I'm under the impression that I'm just using the standalone 1PW application, but maybe the updater sees my subscription and allows me to upgrade without cost. It's messy either way, because I don't like the way 1PW 7 works and had to downgrade.

    That's not an error at all. You don't have a "standalone 1PW application"; it's the same app. So when you have a 1Password.com account setup there, which includes all upgrades, you're offered to update directly to any new release. I'm sorry for the confusion that caused, but it's very much working as designed, since the vast majority of people with 1Password.com memberships are paying for them for expressly that purpose: to get all the updates.

  • hawkmoth
    hawkmoth
    Community Member

    It’s pretty easy to avoid any future update notices. Go to 1Password Preferences and uncheck the box that allows them.

  • Henry
    Henry
    1Password Alumni

    Thanks for the tip, hawkmoth! Others, let us know if you have any more questions about this. :)

  • steven1
    steven1
    Community Member

    Hi @brenty

    If any of you need help setting up 1Password with a standalone license yourselves, I'll be happy to help.

    Not needed for me...I am a happy 1P Families subscriber since launch day. My comment was tongue-in-cheek, implying how we had gotten used to free upgrades :-)

    Best
    Steve

  • Thanks @steven1. :)

    Ben

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    Been using 1PW for a long time.
    Now forced (by Apple not 1PW - Eudora etc) to run High-Sierra with 1PW3 (3.8.22) and don't need a 'Cloud' only want standalone. 1PW3 runs ok but crashes sometimes. (Only have 1 machine; no iPhone or iPad.)
    https://support.1password.com/why-membership/ gives no information HOW to get a Standalone version (AFAICS). It only outlines the benefits of an Account.
    Have just downloaded 6.8.9 & 7.0.4 to install on a backup to see what happens?
    The 1PW3 crashing (doesn't happen often - Safari/Chrome/V39FF all work flawlessly) so, in standalone, what advantages are there in later versions of 1PW?

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @the_catweazle: I don't think it's surprising that a page called "What are the benefits of a 1Password membership?" talks about 1Password.com memberships. :lol:

    You've just touched on one key advantage of staying up to date: compatibility. 1Password 3 was originally developed in 2009 and discontinued in 2012, long before modern version of macOS and browsers existed. In fact, the old extension APIs we were using at that time are now long dead. So sticking with the latest 1Password will allow it to not crash on the current OS, integrate with current browsers, and also gives you a bunch of features and improvements we've made in the intervening years. I'd try to list some of those, but I stopped using version 3 so long ago that it's hard to even recall what's "new" since then. If you start using 1Password 7 (which I'd recommend, given that we don't develop or sell version 6 anymore) I think you'll notice the differences immediately. Let me know if you have any questions! :)

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    @brenty Thanks brenty. IMHO it’s all a question of ‘comprehension.’

    You don’t say that there ‘is’ a ‘standalone’ version of 1PW or that there ‘isn’t.’

    It seems ‘Ad-speak,’ that by even mentioning a standalone version, that doesn’t exist, existing users will try-out the latest version and be so enamoured with it, buy?

    Agile has done most excellently with 1PW3 in that I can run it in High Sierra virtually flawlessly. No doubt when Mac OS upgrades it will fail.

    Your Customer Service is also excellent, Megan was prepared to help a 1PW3 user with problems.

    So, I am convinced there is no standalone version and will continue with 1PW3 in High Sierra.

  • Stephen_C
    Stephen_C
    Community Member

    So, I am convinced there is no standalone version

    That is incorrect. If you download 1Password 7 from the AgileBits' website (not the App Store version) and go carefully through some hoops in the setup (particularly choosing Need a license? We have those too. towards the bottom of the setup screen luring you to subscribe) you can have a perfectly functioning standalone version.

    Stephen

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Thanks brenty. IMHO it’s all a question of ‘comprehension.’ You don’t say that there ‘is’ a ‘standalone’ version of 1PW or that there ‘isn’t.’

    @the_catweazle: That's because neither is really accurate. We don't have separate versions of our software depending on how you purchase it.

    It seems ‘Ad-speak,’ that by even mentioning a standalone version, that doesn’t exist, existing users will try-out the latest version and be so enamoured with it, buy?

    I have no idea what you're referring to here. Can you elaborate?

    Agile has done most excellently with 1PW3 in that I can run it in High Sierra virtually flawlessly. No doubt when Mac OS upgrades it will fail. Your Customer Service is also excellent, Megan was prepared to help a 1PW3 user with problems.

    Thanks for the kind words! Indeed, while we don't hear from many 1Password 3 users these days, I occasionally get to help them myself. :)

    So, I am convinced there is no standalone version and will continue with 1PW3 in High Sierra.

    Alright, you lost me. I already suggested upgrading to 1Password 7. Do you have a question?

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    @brenty I installed 7 on a backup and explored. You certainly put a great deal of work into it!
    It pulled-out so many things from 1PW3 where the latter had saved PW from sign-up pages with the wrong address! Going to have to get used to it!

    It is a standalone version. From your advertising I believed it to require an Account to function and IMHO many others would. (i.e. No Account=non-functional.) I also believed the Vault was offline and had to have an Account for access. From many comments seen elsewhere this is what a lot of people think.

    That's the confusion - one needs an Account to get started - no option. BUT one doesn't need to use the Account as 1PW7 is standalone.

    As I understand it: [1PW7 is a paid-for standalone upgrade for 1 year. In addition a free online Account giving more security plus 1GB free Cloud storage is within the upgrade price. Upgrades within this time are free. After 1 year the option of renewing the Account may be taken if the added security and online storage are required. If renewal isn't taken the added security lapses as does access to the online storage. (What happens to this?) ]

    Maybe my understanding, if correct, is within the documentation and apologies if so. The cost @ 1AUS$ per-week is extremely good for the value 1PW yields.

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    @brenty Can you please explain this: "If you purchased 1Password as a standalone app without a membership, then you don’t have a Secret Key, and you don’t need to sign in when you open the app."
    Still learning

  • Stephen_C
    Stephen_C
    Community Member

    @the_catweazle let me try to chime in and explain about the standalone licence. If you buy it 1Password 7 will be, and can be, completely standlone. There is no need for any 1Password.com account—whether a free trial or otherwise. Your licence will be valid for so long as the OS you use allows 1Password 7 to run. However, any major version update (i.e., to 1Password 8) will almost certainly be another paid update. Traditionally AgileBits has followed the fairly standard practice of not charging for minor version updates (e.g., to 1Password 7.1, etc.).

    If you subscribe to 1Password.com, and so pay a monthly fee, all 1Password apps are included within the subscription and so are all updates to them.

    Whatever you do, it's still possible, if you wish, to have 1Password 7 as a standalone version completely independent of any 1Password.com account.

    I hope that makes things a little clearer.

    Stephen

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @Catweazel: Indeed, sorry for the confusion. We've made a fairly big deal about standalone pricing for our new releases. You can find more details about that and what's new in the announcements:

    1Password 7 for Mac: The Best Ever

    1Password 7 for Windows: The Best Ever

    Going the "standalone" route just means that each version is a separate purchase, and you sync your own data. Otherwise, a 1Password.com membership includes all of the apps, built in sync, online backup and storage, and works more seamlessly since all of that is included in one package. Either way though, we're here to help if you need it. :)

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    @Stephen_C Thanks. Yes, a little clearer. This sort of information would be most valuable in 1PW advertising.

    A few more questions:

    "If you buy it 1Password 7 will be, and can be, completely standalone." How does one buy it? There is no mention of buying in your information AFAIK.

    "There is no need for any 1Password.com account—whether a free trial or otherwise." In installing the 7 trial I had to generate an account, the email received says I have one?

    " If you subscribe to 1Password.com, and so pay a monthly fee,..." . USD per month when billed annually . - from Pricing. What does billed annually mean in the context of a monthly subscription?

    In the meantime I'll continue with 1PW7 trial on my backup.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @the_catweazle: Great questions!

    How does one buy it? There is no mention of buying in your information AFAIK.

    If you install the new version and set it up using only local vaults, you'll have the option to purchase a license right in the app.

    In installing the 7 trial I had to generate an account, the email received says I have one?

    If you signed up for an account in the app, then you will have a trial of a 1Password.com membership.

    What does billed annually mean in the context of a monthly subscription?

    It means you pay for the year in advance, which saves you some money over paying each month.

    I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

  • danco
    danco
    Volunteer Moderator

    And if you do want a licence, you need to sign out of any account before the option to purchase shows up.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Good point. Thank you! :)

  • the_catweazle
    the_catweazle
    Community Member

    @brenty, @Stephen_C, @danco:
    Thanks very much for your advice.
    It really is a nice App! [& standalone :-)] I installed; exported-imported 1PW3 Vault to discover my past password choices made by a drongo. Browser adding simple. I then logged-in to my Account and my vault copied there.

    So, I'm very happy and will go with the Account as, for me, it's another backup.

    Now to repeat on my boot SSD.

  • romad
    romad
    Community Member

    I just went through purchasing the upgrade to the standalone version and regardless of what Agile reps say, it ISN'T as easy as they make it out to be. The subscription options are very much "in your face" but I ended up finding a mention of "licenses" in very small type. Since I had an idea of the terminology Agile was using, I clicked on it and FINALLY found the purchase button.

    I've been using 1Pwd for 10 years now though I'm one of those who did NOT upgrade from 1Pwd3 for several years. I didn't because they had removed a feature I absolutely needed so I soldiered on with 1Pwd3 until the feature was returned. Now Agile is disincentivizing the standalone purchase and pushing the subscription model. Unfortunately while the new model provides a steady income (and more profits) to the company, it ends up costing the user more than if they outright purchased the application. I looked at the cost over the time I expect to use version 7 and determined that subscribing would cost me from 3% to 44% MORE than outright purchasing.

    An easy way to think of subscription vs outright purchase is when you buy something over time: the longer you pay on it, the more expensive it will be. That said, everybody must determine which route is best for themselves so crunch the numbers before you decide. Then read and re-read these forums and eventually someone will let slip how to do an outright purchase.

  • danco
    danco
    Volunteer Moderator

    The relative cost of subscribing versus stand-alone depends very much on how you use 1PW, and it can actually be cheaper to subscribe for many people.

    For more than two people, using both Mac and Windows, a family subscription should come out cheaper than licences.

    For a single user, using only one platform (Mac or Windows), licences are undoubtedly cheaper. As @romad says, crunch the numbers for your particular case before deciding.

    And remember that there are advantages in the subscription, though you may not be interested in the differences.

  • romad
    romad
    Community Member

    danco, those are some good points you brought out about also using HOW you use 1Pwd. In my case it is only myself, 1 iMac, 1 MacBook, and 4 iDevices, so outright purchase is cheaper for me.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited June 2018

    I don't think anyone said the license option is "in your face". It definitely shouldn't be. Even if you have a different preference, 1Password.com memberships are the best option for most people, so we present them as such. I'm sorry for the confusion that caused you, but I'm glad you were able to select the standalone option to use since that's what you wanted. I know some others feel the same, and that's why we continue to offer both options. Cheers! :)

  • romad
    romad
    Community Member

    brenty, the license option is buried; the subscription options are "in your face". Yes, I know you are depreciating and no longer marketing the license option, but it should be easier to find for those of use who want it.

  • Licensing is availabe on the welcome screen:

    As you mentioned we’re no longer marketing the license option, and so I don’t see us making it “easier to find” than that.

    Ben

This discussion has been closed.