Questions about upgrading

Hello!

FYI - I am using 1Password standalone, and do not have the subscription version of 1Password.

I'm looking at my options to eventually upgrade 1Password as far as I can go with my current setup (although I do plan to upgrade my setup eventually). I use 1Password for Mac, Windows, Android, and iOS.

Mac
The latest OS my Mac can use is El Capitan, but I'm currently running Mavericks and 1Password 4. So that means the latest 1Password I could use is 1Password 6 (with El Capitan), correct? My current license should work, right?

Windows
I am running Windows 10, so I am up-to-date here. The latest 1Password I could use is 1Password 7, which is the latest version of 1Password. However, I was told here that there was no gurantee that 1Password 7 for Windows would work with 1Password 4 or 6 for Mac. So, unless you're running 1Password 7 for Mac, upgrading to 1Password 7 for Windows may not work cross platform, right?

Android
I am running 8.1.0 (Oreo). I'm not quite sure if I'm running the latest version of 1Password, but the Play Store does say last updated on Oct 10, 2018. In the "What's New" section it does say 1Password 7 for Android, so I'm assuming that's the latest version. Right?

Now when I launch 1Password for Android, it says I need to convert to the new vault (it says I can use the older vault, but won't be able to enter new data or make edits), OPVault. I am currently using the older vault, agilekeychain. How do you change to the newer OPVault format besides converting in the app?

iOS
I am running iOS 10 and could go up to iOS 12. I am currently running 1Password 7 (as indicated in the "Purchased" tabs in the App Store app). What is the latest version of 1Password for iOS?

OPVault
Do all the latest versions of 1Password now require OPVault?

That should do it for now...

Thanks!


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hi @ScarySulley

    1Password 7 is the latest version for all of our supported platforms. OPVault is required to sync standalone vaults with 1Password 7. OPVault is backwards compatible with 1Password 6, which you can run on OS X 10.11. If you have a 1Password 4 for Mac license that would include versions up through v6. v7 for Mac is a separate purchase (unless using a membership). I’m not aware of any incompatibilities between 1Password 7 for Windows and 1Password 6 for Mac, but if our Windows team told you there are/were it may be worth following up on that thread to see if that is indeed the case.

    I hope that helps!

    Ben

  • Hi @Ben,

    Thank you for the info!

    I believe it was @brenty then said 1Password 7 wasn't tested with 1Password 4 or 6. But I can't find the post at the moment.

    One question that was missed was how to change from the agilekeychain to the OPVault.

    Thanks again!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I believe it was @brenty then said 1Password 7 wasn't tested with 1Password 4 or 6. But I can't find the post at the moment.

    @ScarySulley" I think you may be taking something I said out of context. ;) But 1Password 4 and 6 both support OPVault as well on most platforms.

    One question that was missed was how to change from the agilekeychain to the OPVault.

    It really depends on the platform, but you can find instructions here. If you have questions pertaining to something in particular just let me know. :)

  • edited November 2018

    Hi @brenty,

    Thanks for your response. Here's the comment in question:

    I have to be honest, I have no idea if that will work. We don't test with 1Password 4, and even I haven't had a Mavericks VM in a while, much less a Mac that could run that OS. The best advice I can give you is to backup before you try it. 1Password 7 only supports OPVault, so if you have an AgileKeychain in Dropbox it will be converted (or you'll have to import from it) when you upgrade. Provided the old Mac can read and write to it without trouble though that should be just fine.

    I guess I remembered it wrong because you didn't actually say it wouldn't work. You said it was tested.

    Thanks again!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley: Ah, indeed. I don't want to tell someone something would work when I have no idea at all if it would or not. Sometimes I suggest something that ends up not working due to a bug, and I'd hate to lead anyone astray even when it's something we can fix. And with an app that's been discontinued for years, no further improvements would be forthcoming. But to put things in better perspective, 1Password for Windows version 4 has been used with OPVault for years, many people continue to do so, and it hasn't been long (a year or two?) that since it is no longer under active development, so I wouldn't have any trouble suggesting that (though 1Password 7 would be a better option for most people since it's currently being developed). 1Password for Mac version 4, on the other hand, was used with OPVault by almost no one, and was discontinued in 2014; so what's known about that today is much more spotty. I hope that helps to clarify. :)

  • Thanks for the information @brenty, :)

    Just thought of some more questions in regards to converting to the OPVault format and where vaults are stored:

    My "main" computer is a Mac, which has two installs. One being Mavericks and the other being El Capitan. However the Mavericks install is the "main" one as it has the local data vault, which also syncs to Dropbox. But I want to put the local data vault into the El Capitan install, making that the "main" one. Hope that makes sense.

    1)
    My "main" Mac (which currently has two installs of OS X, Mavericks and El Captian) is running 1Password 4 with the Mavericks install, which has both the local data vault and Dropbox syncing. I forgot, where is the local data vault stored? Is it under ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/Data? I don't see the AgileKeychain format in that folder, but rather three files named "OnePassword" containing "sqlite," "sqlite-shm," and "sqlite-wal" as file name extensions. But I do see the AgileKeychain in the Dropbox folder.

    2)
    On my "main" Mac I also have the El Capitan install which I synced to Dropbox, so I don't think it has a local data vault, right? How do I get a local data vault on the El Capitan install?

    Please explain :)

    Sorry for repeating some information about my Macs two installs.

    Thanks! :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley: You'll only have an AgileKeychain or OPVault at all if you've setup sync with a folder, Dropbox or otherwise. You'll definitely have a local vault like that if you're syncing with Dropbox. Have you looked there?

  • Hi @brenty,

    I have an AgileKeychain file in Dropbox in the 1Password folder. Where is the local file vault stored? I was under the impression that it was under ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/Data. What are the three OnePassword.sqlite files?

    Thanks! :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley: I'm not sure what you're asking. An AgileKeychain is a local vault.

  • edited November 2018

    Hi @brenty,

    Okay, I think I misunderstood how 1Password works. A while back, @megan was assisting me:

    In 1Password 4, your data (for all vaults) is always stored in a default location. For the Mac App Store, this location is: ~/Library/Containers/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Data/OnePassword.sqlite, and the location for the webstore version is : ~/Library/Application Support/1Password\ 4/Data/OnePassword.sqlite

    Please note that this data cannot be moved. When you choose to sync your data, 1Password will actually make a copy of this data and store it in the appropriate sync location. Then both the local copy and the sync copy are updated when changes are made. This is an improvement over 1Password 3 where your data was only stored in one place - there were far too many cases where a 1Password.agilekeychain file would accidentally get deleted from Dropbox, forcing a user to restore from a backup.

    When I read it again, I was asking where is the data vault if you don't use Dropbox. I understood that as there being two separate, but identical, data vaults.

    So if you sync with Dropbox, is the data in Dropbox (AgileKeychain or OPVault) also the local data? So the sync data vault on Dropbox and the local data vault are samething? If so, what are the three OnePassword.sqlite files for?

    Sorry for the confusion, I hope that clears it up!

    Thanks! :)

  • rudyrudy

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley,

    The data that the app displays is pulled from and written to the sqlite files. OPVault and agileKeychain files are strictly intermediary formats for getting your 1Password data from one copy of 1Password to another copy.

  • edited November 2018

    Hi @rudy,

    Thank you for the explanation.

    So basically 1Password actively reads/writes directly from/to the sqlite files. The AgileKeychain/OPVault file vaults, synced on Dropbox, are a "copy" of those sqlite files so the data vault can be read and written to by the other 1Password apps I have on other platforms.

    To be sure I understand how this works:

    1. I make a change/write to the sqlite data vault(s) on my Mac 1Password. The Mac 1Password will also read data from the sqlite data vault(s).
    2. Those changes are then written to do AgileKeychain/OPVault on Dropbox.
    3. The other 1Password apps on other platforms then read/write from that AgileKeychain/OPVault on Dropbox.
      Question: Do the other platforms have sqlite file(s) as well? Or do they not use the AgileKeychain/OPVault as an intermediary file, but rather read/write to them only?

    So, in a way, there are two local vaults if you sync with Dropbox. The sqlite file(s) and the AgileKeychain/OPVault file vault on Dropbox. If you only have one computer and don't sync with Dropbox, then 1Password does not use the AgileKeychain/OPVault.

    Or am I completely off? :)

  • For some reason my previous comment got deleted after I had posted it and edited it a few times. Not sure if there's a bug with the forum. But just wanted to let you know.

    Hi @Rudy,

    Thank you for the explanation!

    To be sure I understand how it works:

    1. My 1Password on my Mac reads/writes directly to the sqlite file(s), then copies any changes to the AgileKeychain/OPVault on Dropbox. So the AgileKeychain/OPVault are "copies" of the sqlite files(s). The other 1Passwords on other platforms don't directly use the sqlite file(s) on my main Mac, but only use the AgileKeychain/OPVault file vault.
    2. The other 1Password apps on other platforms then read/write directly to/from the AgileKeychain/OPVault on Dropbox. Question: Does 1Password on other platforms also have sqlite file(s), or do they only use the AgileKeychain/OPVault on Dropbox?
    3. Then for any changes made from 1Password on other platforms, the process is reversed back to the original Mac.

    So, in a way, there are two vaults. The sqlite file(s) and the AgileKeychain/OPVault file vaults (at least on my main Mac).

    Am I understanding this? :)

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    For some reason my previous comment got deleted after I had posted it and edited it a few times. Not sure if there's a bug with the forum. But just wanted to let you know.

    @ScarySulley: You apparently never verified your forum account, and that along with the lengthy post and edits tripped the spam filter. I just verified your account for you, so that should be less of an issue going forward. :)

    So basically 1Password actively reads/writes directly from/to the sqlite files. The AgileKeychain/OPVault file vaults, synced on Dropbox, are a "copy" of those sqlite files so the data vault can be read and written to by the other 1Password apps I have on other platforms.

    Correct. Those (especially OPVault) are much better suited to file-based sync, like Dropbox.

    Question: Do the other platforms have sqlite file(s) as well? Or do they not use the AgileKeychain/OPVault as an intermediary file, but rather read/write to them only?

    Old versions of 1Password did not, but all current versions of 1Password use a similar internal database setup for working data and then maintain a copy for syncing (if configured to do so).

    So, in a way, there are two vaults. The sqlite file(s) and the AgileKeychain/OPVault file vaults (at least on my main Mac).

    Not quite. The internal database is really what 1Password uses. The external copy is only used for syncing..

    Am I understanding this? :)

    Pretty much. :)

  • You apparently never verified your forum account, and that along with the lengthy post and edits tripped the spam filter. I just verified your account for you, so that should be less of an issue going forward. :)

    Interesting...thanks for verifying my account. I must have missed that email! :)

    Now that I have a better idea how these vault files work, I'll get back to my original questions. Thanks for explaining it though, really!

    Old versions of 1Password did not, but all current versions of 1Password use a similar internal database setup for working data and then maintain a copy for syncing (if configured to do so).

    How "old" does 1Password have to be to not have these sqlite (or equivalent, not sure if sqlite is Mac only).

    • My Mac is running OS X El Capitan which has 1Password 6. The other install which has OS X Mavericks is running 1Password 4.
    • My Windows PC has 1Password 4.
    • On Android I think I'm running 1Password 7.
    • On iOS I think I'm also running 1Password 7.

    So in regards to the AgileKeychain/OPVault data vaults, we don't get to choose which one we want, right? The one we get depends on which version of 1Password we're using? Older versions of 1Password automatically made the AgileKeychain, while newer versions of 1Password made the OPVault.

    To convert from AgileKeychain to OPVault, based on the instructions you linked me to earlier above, we delete the sync data vault (AgileKeychain in my case). The local sqlite file(s) will NOT be touched. Then you enable Dropbox syncing again and the sync data vault will be automatically made again, but this time in the OPVault format (provided you're using a newer version of 1Password).

    Is that correct?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Interesting...thanks for verifying my account. I must have missed that email! :)

    @ScarySulley: No worries. It was probably a long time ago at this point, and I only happened to notice it because of the spam thing. :)

    Now that I have a better idea how these vault files work, I'll get back to my original questions. Thanks for explaining it though, really!

    You're very welcome! :chuffed:

    How "old" does 1Password have to be to not have these sqlite (or equivalent, not sure if sqlite is Mac only).

    1Password for Windows version 4 is the only one in recent memory that not using an internal database.

    So in regards to the AgileKeychain/OPVault data vaults, we don't get to choose which one we want, right? The one we get depends on which version of 1Password we're using? Older versions of 1Password automatically made the AgileKeychain, while newer versions of 1Password made the OPVault.

    We were actually pretty lax about this until version 7. The only version 7 app that supports AgileKeychain at all in 1Password or iOS, and that's mainly because it was released long before the others (autumn 2017). Previous versions going back to 2013 or so supported both AgileKeychain and OPVault, though OPVault has been the default for new vaults for some time now. So old AgileKeychains were sort of "grandfathered in" until we dropped it entirely in version 7. in favour of the newer OPVault format

    To convert from AgileKeychain to OPVault, based on the instructions you linked me to earlier above, we delete the sync data vault (AgileKeychain in my case). The local sqlite file(s) will NOT be touched.

    Correct.

    Then you enable Dropbox syncing again and the sync data vault will be automatically made again, but this time in the OPVault format (provided you're using a newer version of 1Password).

    Correct.

    That would also happen with earlier versions of 1Password, since they defaulted to OPVault, but some (like 1Password for Mac version 6) had an option to create AgileKeychains instead.

  • When you sync again with Dropbox it ask you to select the Dropbox folder. Does that mean the actual Dropbox folder or the existing 1Password folder inside the Dropbox folder? I choose the actual Dropbox folder and 1Password made a folder called "Apps" and put a "1Password" folder in there. Then I disabled sync and deleted the sync data and went to resync again. This time I choose the existing 1Password folder and it put the OPVault directly in there. Which is the correct way?

    Thanks!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @ScarySulley: No. If you select a folder that is not a 1Password vault, 1Password will create in that location. If you want to sync with an existing vault folder, select that one directly.

  • Thanks for the response @brenty,

    Okay, so I don't select the actual Dropbox folder, but the pre-exisiting "1Password" folder in which the OPVault will be placed into.

    If I select the actual Dropbox folder, 1Password will create a new folder in the Dropbox folder called "Apps" with a new "1Password" folder in that one, in which the OPVault will be placed into.

    Out of curiosity, what else would be put into the "App" folder besides the 1Password vault? Also, is there a reason why you would want select the actual Dropbox folder, and thus use the "App" folder as opposed to selecting the pre-existing "1Password" folder?

    Thanks!

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for the response @brenty,

    @ScarySulley: :chuffed: :+1:

    Okay, so I don't select the actual Dropbox folder, but the pre-exisiting "1Password" folder in which the OPVault will be placed into. If I select the actual Dropbox folder, 1Password will create a new folder in the Dropbox folder called "Apps" with a new "1Password" folder in that one, in which the OPVault will be placed into.

    Correct. Yeah, it's a but confusing on Windows because the OS treats the vault as a folder, whereas it's a "bundle" on macOS.

    Out of curiosity, what else would be put into the "App" folder besides the 1Password vault? Also, is there a reason why you would want select the actual Dropbox folder, and thus use the "App" folder as opposed to selecting the pre-existing "1Password" folder? Thanks!

    Other apps can put their own subfolders inside the "Apps" folder to sync their data. This is what Dropbox recommends. I can't think of a good reason to put files in the "Apps" folder, but I imagine somebody could concoct some reason for doing it. :lol:

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