I do not NEED 1Password v5 [your 1Password 3 license will never expire]

BettBeeBettBee Junior Member
edited August 2015 in 1Password 3 – 6 for Mac

I am fine with v.3.8.22. I will never use any other functionality. Don't use wallet, and wouldn't. Wouldn't use cloud ANYTHING for passwords. All I need is the functionality I already have - remember my passwords and fill them in when I need them. According to the folks at Mozilla, developers were given plenty of time to work this out and make it work with current versions. I regard this as being forced to buy something I do not need and will not use. Please just make the thing I already bought from you work properly. I am SO unhappy with Agilebits right now.

Also please do not try to dictate to me what browser I must use to make this thing that, as I've said, I've ALREADY BOUGHT FROM YOU, work properly. (Well, at all.)

What the hell is it about software developers who think we purchasers owe you money every few years? None of the people who made any item you'll find in my house have ever come in and broken them, then demanded more money for a newer version. In fact I have perfectly functioning items that are over 100 years old, and I find joy in their use. I thought Apple were the main bad hats doing this crap after they bricked my beautiful 12" Wacom graphics tablet when they killed serial ports and refused to provide adapters, and other similar tricks, but now Agilebits seems to be taking a leaf out of their book. Just because it's legacy doesn't mean it isn't perfectly useful to other folks.

Grrrrr


1Password Version: Version 3.8.22 (build 32010)
Extension Version: Don't know, CAN'T ACCESS IT!
OS Version: 10.8.5
Sync Type: wifi

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    According to the folks at Mozilla, developers were given plenty of time to work this out and make it work with current versions.

    @BettBee: Active development on 1Password 3 ended just over 3 years ago, a year after Apple stopped supporting Snow Leopard, so we will not be going back and updating it. It simply wasn't designed with these changes in mind...6 years ago. Mozilla is moving their platform forward, and it's the right thing to do. 1Password has to move forward too, rather than being stuck in the past with an old app.

    That said, if you like the old app, that's great! Nobody's going got take that away from you. It will continue to work with the same OS and browser versions it was designed to (and many that it was never meant to, thanks to some quality engineering).

    I regard this as being forced to buy something I do not need and will not use. Please just make the thing I already bought from you work properly.

    You absolutely don't have to buy anything. 1Password 3 will continue to work with the same browser versions it always has. In fact, it was updated to support browsers (Chrome) and OS releases (Lion) that did not yet exist when it was created.

    Also please do not try to dictate to me what browser I must use to make this thing that, as I've said, I've ALREADY BOUGHT FROM YOU, work properly. (Well, at all.)

    I wouldn't dream of it! 1Password 3 was created in 2009 and has been updated to work with Firefox up to and including version 26 (2013/12). It just so happens that Firefox didn't make substantial changes to their extension frameworks that had an impact on 1Password 3 until 2015. Nice! And it even works on OS X still, 6 years and 4 releases later. Wow! I don't know about you, but I don't have any other apps with that kind of longevity, especially when it comes to the ever-changing landscape of the web.

    And to be clear, you didn't purchase 1Password 3 to work with Firefox 40. That would just be crazy, since it didn't exist! And at the time, Firefore 4 was a thing. I never imagined I would live to see the day that version 40 was released, and neither did 1Password 3. :lol:

    What the hell is it about software developers who think we purchasers owe you money every few years? None of the people who made any item you'll find in my house have ever come in and broken them, then demanded more money for a newer version.

    You don't owe us money. Ever. If you want our products, you buy them. We don't come door to door, and we certainly didn't push an update that broke the old extension, just to hit you up for cash. If you don't want 1Password 5, don't buy it. But just as it wouldn't be reasonable for us to come slash your extension's tires to demand further payment, it isn't reasonable of you to expect us to pour resources into a product, in perpetuum which has reached its end of life. If we did that, we'd have a lot more disappointed customers, as it wouldn't have support for features introduced in browsers and OSes that only came into being after 1Password 3 was already fully formed.

    In fact I have perfectly functioning items that are over 100 years old, and I find joy in their use. I thought Apple were the main bad hats doing this crap after they bricked my beautiful 12" Wacom graphics tablet when they killed serial ports and refused to provide adapters, and other similar tricks, but now Agilebits seems to be taking a leaf out of their book. Just because it's legacy doesn't mean it isn't perfectly useful to other folks.

    I sincerely hope that you reported whomever it was, claiming to represent Apple, who broke into your home and vandalized your property to the proper authorities. That's simply inexcusable (and borderline psychotic). But it isn't clear what this has to do with AgileBits.

    In the end, you have three options:

    1. You can continue to use 1Password 3 with the same hardware and software you have been, including supported browser releases it was designed for.
    2. You can use 1Password with an alternative browser/version (Safari, Chrome, even Firefox ESR 38!) that 1Password 3 was not designed for, but which (miraculously) continue to work nonetheless.
    3. You can move to a newer version which will continue to work with current browser and OS versions.

    So to reiterate, please feel free to use 1Password 3 for as long as you wish. it's clear that it's been a tremendous value for you, and I think that says a lot about the hard work we put into it! :)

  • BettBeeBettBee Junior Member

    Brenty, thank you for your somewhat flippant answer to an obviously upset person (really??) but it actually doesn't speak to why I'm so upset. Here's the point. For one thing, nobody warned me that upgrading Firefox would break this extension. Not Agilebits, and not Mozilla. It didn't break any of my other extensions, just this one. And now, I don't know how to go back and get the previous release of Firefox back. Not that I actually want to be using un-updated versions of my main browser either. I don't want ESR, because god knows what else that'll mess up. Even if I did go through the inconvenience of installing and figuring out how to make ESR work for me, that would only delay the screwing until Spring 2016 when the widget module will be removed from that as well and I'll still be forced to buy the upgrade.

    Now do you see why I feel like I'm being held up? If I want to use Firefox, which I do, especially to stay current with it, I must pay you people for an upgrade. Which I don't want to do because I am uninterested in any of your new bells and whistles. If I wanted either the bells or the whistles I'd gladly pay up, but I need no additional functionality. So you are by default dictating what browser I must use if I want to stay with v3 - i. e. one that works with that legacy release of 1Password.

    I don't want a Google app like Chrome anywhere near my system after my nightmare experiences with their products, the glacial and instant slowdown of any system I've ever had the misfortune of having installed them on, and their attitudes to those problems. Not to mention their fondness for collecting, shall we say, "additional data" one might not want them to have. Not that anyone can't get almost anything if they're dedicated enough, but why make it easy for them? Sheesh. And Safari is a joke, not to mention being Apple's pet browser, so I can only imagine what they're up to with that one. I have no interest in handing either Apple or Google any more information on what I read than I have to. And Opera basically sucks as well. Tor would be great if it didn't operate at prehistoric speeds and as long as you are mostly interested in text. So Firefox is really the best option barring going completely mad for however long the learning curve would be of figuring out what flavor of Linux to install and configuring the resulting system to do what I need.

    I just want to use my nice old 1Password add on with current versions of Firefox on OSX.

    And did you really not understand that nobody from Apple came to my house and vandalized it? Or was that an unfunny attempt at a joke at the expense of an upset customer? Way to provide customer support. You say you didn't understand why I brought it up - I can't believe I have to explain that this was an analogy for what I feel you are doing here. I was upset when, around 2000 or so, the company removed the only possible way to connect my lovely, useful and expensive peripheral, which I loved, to my new Mac, something they failed to make known to me in my extensive pre-sales discussions with them on the phone. And there were NO adapters to be had. I'd been waiting for several years to plug that tablet into an Apple computer to be able to use the additional functionality that Wacom had built into it for Macs. But the thing arrived, and blammo, no way to use the tablet with my rather expensive new machine. I can't even describe the disappointment.

    I'm not some deep-pockets corporation using this stuff for business, for god's sake, I'm an artist and all this stuff costs money. I make decisions about what software and hardware I use carefully and with much thought and research, but every time some company that wants to be the latest and hippest with the shiniest new thing decides that legacy devices and code aren't needed anymore, there are a bunch of us out here feeling completely ripped off with our stuff broken. And we end up buying some useless new thing we didn't want or need with the tech equivalent of tail fins and fuzzy dice because that's this year's model.

    Face it. It's a device calculated to make more sales. You don't have to be stuck in the past with an old app, you can let us choose. Why not dust it off and give it a little effort, and let it work with the new software as all my other plugin makers have managed to do? Honestly, if all the other apps I've been using easily as long as I've been using 1Password can work it out why can't you? There are plenty of fanboys and girls who are eager enough to fling their money at you every time you come out with another bell or whistle, but you're not making any friends of the people who have been using (and by the way promoting) your product for years and who need neither bells nor whistles.

    http://dilbert.com/strip/1994-09-29

  • Hello @BettBee,

    You are quite correct, Firefox ESR 38 would be a bandaid only but would allow those still wanting to use Firefox a lifeline right now. Now Firefox ESR should be a drop in replacement for Firefox and for the next several months it will only receive vital security updates - the purpose behind the ESR version is no surprises.

    I would also recommend using updated software as many updates to operating systems and browsers are often security updates designed to improve your safety. The issue here is that of dependencies. All software depends on libraries or frameworks, sometimes even complete applications for it to work correctly. If you upgrade certain pieces of software but not others it can create compatibility issues. Sometimes the breaks are minor e.g. Dropbox changes some part of their setup and 1Password 3 for Mac can no longer detect it's running. This is minor in the sense that it isn't a deal breaker. The 1Password 3 extension though relied on something called the widgets module which was still in active use when development on 1Password 3 ceased. The last Firefox version the extension was developed for was version 26. In version 29 Firefox deprecated the widgets module and in Firefox 40 they removed it completely. If you do not upgrade all software but instead only a subset complications can arise.

    1Password 3 and the extension are not in development and haven't been in development for a while now. This is not an attempt to apply sales pressure. The pragmatics of running a software company are that developing multiple versions of a piece of software is costly and resources are of course finite. All of the browsers are going through changes and the team needs to ensure the current extensions will work as well as prepare the current version of the software for the upcoming updates to their respective platforms. All of this is common in the world of software development, old versions get retired and over time changes to their dependencies will result in more and more aspects of the software not working until it completely breaks. It's also common to see new versions of software not support old versions of an OS or browser because maintaining compatibility places a significant demand on resources that is often not feasible.

    I have no doubt it's frustrating and you may not like the options available to those of you in this position but there are still options. Your licence for 1Password 3 still works though and will continue to do so. We will also continue to do our best to support our 1Password 3 users here in the forums. 1Password 3's period of active development though is behind us and as such, the 1Password 3 extension will no longer work with any version of Firefox 40 or higher.

    Given Apple's history in this matter I would prepare yourself for the possibility that OS X Mountain Lion will cease receiving security updates this year. In the past it seems the trend has been to support the current version of OS X and the last two versions. When El Capitan is released this may mean security updates will only be supplied for Mavericks and Yosemite going forward. This is just a guess but it is also based on previous events.

    There are without doubt, better ways to have discovered all of this. As an Opera user, I never did use the 1Password 3 extension when it was current. I learnt of this at the time of the first report and had to inspect the console logs of Firefox 39 to deduce what was occurring. Further investigation led to the knowledge of the removal of the widget module. I'm not sure how prior knowledge would have helped though. Neither 1Password nor the extension phone home meaning we have no idea who is running it. Nor would there be any reason for anybody to visit the forums until something broke sufficiently that contacting us was required. There might be ways it could have been better handled but I don't know what they are off the top of my head given we don't know who still runs the extension and version 40 of Firefox was the first version that removed the widgets module.

    ref: AGW-252

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Brenty, thank you for your somewhat flippant answer to an obviously upset person (really??) but it actually doesn't speak to why I'm so upset.

    @BettBee: In spite of lil bobby's excellent response, I also wanted to respond since it seems I've offended you personally.

    Unlike the comic, my intention was not to be flippant, but rather to respond calmly and rationally to some of the inflammatory and patently false things you said. I meant no disrespect, but I understand it's easy to take offense when you're already upset, and when the answers are not those that you're looking for.

    That said, it doesn't change the fact that I did manage to offend you, regardless of my intentions, and for that I am sincerely sorry. :frown:

    For one thing, nobody warned me that upgrading Firefox would break this extension. Not Agilebits, and not Mozilla.

    We actually don't contact any of our customers unsolicited. If sign up for our newsletter, you'll receive the occasional email from that. We also don't track you to know what browser you're running. That would just be creepy. So there just isn't a reasonable way for us to notify every customer using 1Password 3 and Firefox to warn them of an issue with the extension. In fact, the concerns you voiced about Google and Apple knowing the sites you visit leads me to believe that you might appreciate this.

    I don't want ESR, because god knows what else that'll mess up. Even if I did go through the inconvenience of installing and figuring out how to make ESR work for me, that would only delay the screwing until Spring 2016 when the widget module will be removed from that as well and I'll still be forced to buy the upgrade.

    The main issue here is this: not keeping your browser up to date is almost as dangerous as not keeping your OS up to date, so I only recommended Firefox ESR as a last resort. And given that you clearly have developed a deep hatred for most browsers while grudgingly accepting Firefox alone, there really isn't anywhere else to go. You have options, but you're rejecting them one by one.

    I just want to use my nice old 1Password add on with current versions of Firefox on OSX.

    You can't have it both ways. You just can't. I'm sorry that I don't have a more satisfactory answer for you, but it's the truth.

    And did you really not understand that nobody from Apple came to my house and vandalized it? Or was that an unfunny attempt at a joke at the expense of an upset customer?

    No joke. I was trying to illustrate that the analogy you used really wasn't apt under the circumstances, and that you're essentially taking out pent-up, years-old animosity you harbour toward Apple and directing it at AgileBits. And that just isn't fair.

    I'm not some deep-pockets corporation using this stuff for business, for god's sake, I'm an artist and all this stuff costs money.

    Likewise. And we need to be paid for our work too. I can't imagine that you would find it reasonable if your customers expected you to retouch and revamp your art years after you had sold it to them, to keep up with the times. True, this isn't a perfect analogy to technology, and that's why we provided hundreds of updates over many years to 1Password 3 and its extensions. But eventually we have to move on and focus on our current work, much as I imagine you will not toil over a single creative piece for the rest of your working life.

    Face it. It's a device calculated to make more sales.

    You couldn't be more wrong. Were that the case, we could have easily ensured that 1Password 3 didn't work a long, long time ago — probably around the time 1Password 4 was released would have been best, were we that cynical. On the contrary, 1Password 3 and its extensions have worked for years past their prime, and I think that's a testament to the care we put into our products. And we're people too. :blush:

  • BettBeeBettBee Junior Member
    edited August 2015

    Littlebobbytables, thank you for your considered response. I do appreciate it and will respond in more detail when I get another moment.

    Brenty, you just can't help yourself, can you? Since you're having such a good time telling customers what they should do, I'll return the favor. Maybe you should take a break from writing snarky notes to customers, especially upset ones. You're actually inflaming the situation.

    Bottom line, a newsletter could have come out maybe a month or so before the event, letting people know that Firefox 40 was going to irrevocably break V3 plugins. I actually read newsletters from Agilebits, so I wouldn't have been taken by such surprise. According to Mozilla, all the developers have known about this for quite awhile. I would have had some time to consider my next move before being so inconvenienced, and believe me it is an inconvenience. And I could have put off upgrading Firefox while I at least thought about it.

  • littlebobbytableslittlebobbytables

    Team Member
    edited August 2015

    Hello @BettBee,

    If it's okay I'll continue conversing with you going forward.

    You're right, we could have found a better way to try and communicate what happened and it might be the newsletter really is the best option in the end. In a way it's a shame because while it would have forewarned some people like yourself I suspect most would have still been caught by surprise. Many of our users don't visit without good cause unless there is advanced warning (from the users perspective) that might prompt asking us. It turns out Mozilla was printing a warning to their console but unless you go looking you wouldn't notice it - certainly I hadn't and I'm installing and uninstalling the various extensions on a pretty regular basis.

    AgileBits does try to live up to their name. We have to be agile but it can be very rewarding from an individual's perspective. I've not been part of this family for long but I'm getting to learn all sorts of information about the extension that goes well outside what a member of a traditional support team would require. There can be downsides though. If we're not meticulous at every single stage then pieces of information can drop through the cracks. Some times it's merely an inconvenience, sometimes it comes back and bites us like it did now. As development on the 1Password 3 extension stopped some time ago I couldn't say who was part of that team. If they're still here it may be they haven't looked at the extension side in some time because they're agile and have been working on something else equally as important. All of this isn't meant as an excuse, I'm just trying to convey that this whole episode wasn't intended, we could have done better and the key for us is to learn from it.

    The tough part is that even if we had found a way to at least warn some of you, the pain was still coming.

    I stand by what I said before, Firefox ESR 38 isn't a cure, it will eventually cease to include the widgets module as well but here's the good news, it's a drag and drop replacement for Firefox 40. I took a copy of Firefox 39 and made sure the 1Password 3 extension was working. I let it update to Firefox 40 and watched it break. I downloaded a copy of Firefox ESR 38, quit Firefox and dragged the copy in my Applications folder to the Trash. I opened up the Firefox DMG, copied this Firefox to my Applications folder and the extension is present and working again. It isn't perfect but the advantage if the ESR version is it will still receive security updates until May of 2016 and will continue to support the older extension until then. That is at least some breathing room while not placing yourself in any risk from using an insecure version of Firefox. I can understand your initial reaction but I think it's worth considering.

    After that I'm not sure what the best recourse would be. If your Mac is running OS X 10.8 at the moment it should be compatible with OS X 10.10 which would also mean compatibility with 10.11 when it comes out. You would probably find it a bit like how I found the upgrade from Snow Leopard to Mavericks. OS X was free but then there was the third party software that had to be upgraded too. For me that was 1Password (I was merely a customer at the time), Little Snitch and MailServe. There may have been others later but those were the ones I needed to update right there and then. Upgrading my version of OS X meant new versions and I wasn't willing to be without them - simple as that. Of course it depends on how many pieces of software you deem essential and if you're happy with that expense. What I would say is 1Password 3 (the application) mostly still works on even Yosemite but cracks are beginning to show. Computing does still move forward at a frantic pace. My current phone is significantly more powerful than the PC I saved for a year to purchase as a teenager. A particular version of OS X seems to have a lifecycle of three years at the moment. I can imagine where if you're not happy with that pace it would probably make you furious and I don't think there's a great answer there.

    So we should have done better, although I don't believe it was as simple as a single mistake or decision behind it. It's more a different approach to many parts could be what is needed. In the grand scheme of things AgileBits is not a big company and we may make mistakes along the way. Hopefully 1Password has proven indispensable for you like it has for me and that we can work past this unfortunate episode.

  • Hopefully that was all understandable, let me know if any part could have been written in a clearer way.

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