1PasswordAnywhere, Web Access, 1Password for Teams

Probably a dumb question but I’m a bit confused about this.

In ancient times I used to have emergency web access to my data via 1PasswordAnywhere as part of the DropBox sync. Later on this became buggy and was declared deprecated or being phased out. And it’s not available via iCloud sync anyway, which I’m using now.

1P for Teams has been declared the future solution.

Now I’m seeing that 1P for Teams will be 5$/month and the family thing the same. Does this really mean that I have to pay 5$/month to get back the old functionality of 1PasswordAnywhere?

To make it clear: I’m not interested in syncing my data with anybody, no family, no teams, no pets. I just would like to have reliable emergency read-only web access from any computer, in case of fatal circumstances (= iPhone lost or bricked) during travels.


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

«1

Comments

  • nathanvfnathanvf 1Password Alumni

    Hey there @mot,

    1Password for Teams/Families is a solution that was developed which has a lot more features than just 1PasswordAnywhere. 1PasswordAnywhere was a solution to get some access to your data through Dropbox in a limited way. 1Password for Teams/Families is a much different system that does a lot more than allow you to access your items from the cloud.

    1PasswordAnywhere was deprecated for a reason. In many ways it was not worth continuing developing it since it was a very limited way to give users access to their items.

    TL;DR if you're looking for in-browser access of your items then Families/Teams is the way to go.

  • dancodanco Senior Member Community Moderator

    Like @mot I disagree with your analysis and your claim that 1PW for Families is a sensible replacement for 1PW Anywhere.

    I'm sure there are many of us who would like some kind of emergency access to passwords. For instance, if one's devices are stolen, if one's only devices are at home and there is a sudden need. That was provided by 1PW Anywhere.

    If one wants regular access by a web browser 1PW for Families is probably an excellent solution.

    But I'm not going to pay $5 a month (though $5 a year would be fine) for a feature that I hope I would not use more than once a year, if that.

    I understand the reasons why you are not continuing with 1PW Anywhere. And 1PW for Families/Teams is new enough that its pricing and features aren't settled yet. But I hope that you will work out some free or low-cost way of getting emergency access.

  • nathanvfnathanvf 1Password Alumni

    Thanks for your input @danco.

  • Thank you for your reply, @nathanvf.

    1Password for Teams/Families is a much different system that does a lot more than allow you to access your items from the cloud.

    I’m sure it’s a great thing (I already checked out the Teams beta) and I’ve read that it took 2 years to develop this. Unfortunately (currently) I have no use for all the features, that’s a shame.

    1PasswordAnywhere was deprecated […] since it was a very limited way to give users access to their items.

    What I’m looking for is exactly this “very limited way” to have access to my data. Only for emergencies, and only during travels. (At home I have several Macs/iDevices, so no problem if one of them breaks down.)

    Currently, when traveling, I always carry a sheet of paper and/or an USB stick with important data with me (and the most important passwords in my head). Another workaround I’ve tried was dumping 1P’s raw data into a LastPass record (which is accessible from anywhere). But these are not the most elegant solutions ;)

    TL;DR if you're looking for in-browser access of your items then Families/Teams is the way to go.

    Yep, that’s exactly what I’ve been repeatedly reading in this forum.

    Since you don’t mention the 5$/month issue I’m assuming that my suspicion was correct, I will have to pay the full subscription price to get the required feature (which is a mini subset of the Teams features).

    I agree with @danco, some very limited, free (or maybe very low-cost) variant of the Team subscription would probably do the trick. And, honestly, that is exactly what I was expecting each time I read the announcement that the future of 1PasswordAnywhere will be in Teams.

    The feature I need is a very basic and important thing and should be an integral part of 1P again, no matter how it is implemented.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Teams would be way overkill if you don't plan to use all of the features, although for a single user the price would actually be the same (or roughly the same). Normally I'd recommend 1Password for Families.

    At the moment I'm not aware of plans to offer a lower price point for Families / Teams but thanks for letting us know you'd be interested in web access (without sharing) to your data at a lower price.

    Ben

  • edited March 2016

    thanks for letting us know you'd be interested in web access (without sharing) to your data at a lower price.

    This sounds to me that you are surprised that anybody is interested in this feature.

    This is… surprising.

  • ag_kevinag_kevin Junior Member

    Team Member

    Hi mot,

    It's not that we're surprised. There are challenges surrounding maintaining this feature to maintain compatibility and of course maintaining the security of the users' data. Knowing how each of our users would use such a feature helps us evaluate future directions on how we can offer a solution in the future.

    Thanks again for letting us know about your interest.

    Cheers,
    Kevin

  • I browsed the forum and I discovered a couple of other threads on the same problem.

    OK, it seems the situation is not nice. Let’s see:

    I stood there waiting, for quite some time, looking forward to the announced replacement for the 1PasswordAnywhere functionality, called Teams. Now it has (partially) arrived and it turns out that it is a 5$/month thingy and that you haven’t even started to work on a read-only, light variant to replicate only the lost functionality of 1PasswordAnywhere (“we are looking into options for the future”, “I'm warming up to the idea”). This implies somehow that AgileBits is/was seriously expecting me to pay 5$/month for getting back only the lost web access.

    I’m feeling like a complete idiot now, for having stood there waiting all the time. If you’re “warming up to the idea” and “looking into options for the future” now, I don’t have much confidence that “the options” will arrive anytime soon, or even that they will arrive at all…

    You may argue that it has also been announced (at some point in time) that Teams will cost a monthly fee.

    But: If you announce something as a replacement for some other thing that was an essential standard functionality, it is implicit that it will not come as a paid subscription; maybe a paid version upgrade, OK.

    So, of course, I expected that some Teams-based functionality would replace the lost one. But not a fully-fledged and costly enterprise/family solution as the only way to get back basic web access!

    Interestingly I stumbled upon posts from the staff that are on the borderline of being misleading (the answers here) or desperately recommending rather crazy things, like ‘continuing to use 1PAnyW, despite the fact that 1) it has been abandoned and 2) it will only work if you host it on your own web server!’ (1, 2).

    ***

    Well. Assuming that the 1PAnyW functionality won’t have a comeback as a standard feature in the foreseeable future —or not at all—, what are the alternatives?

    • Paying 5$/month only to have emergency web access? Nope. (Would you have been willing to pay 5$/month for 1PAnyW in the past?)

    • Before traveling, copying important things to a KeePass database, with a portable app on a USB stick?

    • Splitting my data and transferring important things (bank related, email passwords, important web logins, etc.) to LastPass, and using 1P for stuff like forum logins and software licenses?
      Seems like the most practical solution. Have to think.

    This makes me sad, because only some years ago I converted from LastPass to 1P, and I still love 1P for its superb UI and integration with other apps.

  • dancodanco Senior Member Community Moderator

    @mot While I agree with your general comments, I think you are wrong about 1PW Anywhere.

    1. It has been abandoned, is not being developed further. However it is still usable, although changes in Dropbox in the (near?) future may make it unusable. The opvault format (not supported by Anywhere) encrypts some headers that the agilekeychain format does not.

    2. I think you must be misunderstanding here. You certainly don't need to host your own web server as long as it keeps working with Dropbox. I think this must have been suggested as an alternative to Dropbox.

    I'm not sure if the pricing model allows one to move in and out of 1PW for Families, just to buy a month's use. I'm travelling to the USA for a week or so shortly and am prepared to pay for a SIM card for my phone just for the convenience. In the same way I would be prepared to pay $5 as a one-month purchase.

  • edited March 2016

    However it is still usable, although changes in Dropbox in the (near?) future may make it unusable.

    Yes, I remember there have been already troubles in the past, related to DropBox changes and/or opening the file in certain browsers. And, since it is not being developed further the situation will rather become worse than better.

    It is certain that I won’t bet on a dead horse when I’m looking for a reliable emergency access. (Apart from that, it’s not very convenient each time changing the sync from iCloud to DropBox just to get the file. But at the time I switched to iCloud I didn’t worry too much about that because I believed there would come a 1PAnyW successor sometime soon.)

    I think this must have been suggested as an alternative to Dropbox

    Yes, you are right, I misread that. An alternative for the case that DropBox becomes incompatible with the file. See above, “reliability”.

    to move in and out of 1PW for Families, just to buy a month's use.

    Yeah, this would be some kind of option, if it’s possible. But when I’m traveling only 2 to 3 times a year I already pay the same what I would pay for 1 year LastPass. I know that you can’t compare LP with 1P, but we’re speaking only of reliable web access here. And, probably you’ll agree, that is a more than clumsy workaround for a functionality that just should be there.

    I’ve already reinstalled LastPass and will transfer relevant data there. Heck, LastPass is really crap compared to 1P, but it has the one functionality that 1P is lacking.

  • dancodanco Senior Member Community Moderator

    1PW for Families/Teams is very new, the pricing isn't settled yet.

    I'm hoping that enough people will say that the idea of emergency access appeals to them that it will inspire AgileBits to work out a solution.

  • Drew_AGDrew_AG 1Password Alumni

    Hi @mot,

    I'm sorry you're disappointed in 1PasswordAnywhere being phased out! It can certainly come in quite handy in certain situations, and I'm sure there are other customers who also really like that feature. I understand why it's an important feature for you, and why you don't want to pay for a 1Password for Families subscription just to continue having web access to your 1Password data.

    You may have already read information about this in other discussions, but in case you haven't: 1PasswordAnywhere was an old feature designed years ago (originally around 2008, when smartphones were less prevalent than they are now), built into the old Agile Keychain format, relied on older Dropbox APIs, and had very limited capabilities (it never had the ability to edit data or create new items, and the interface was a basic, shallow copy of 1Password 3). It also had much weaker security than the main 1Password apps because 1PasswordAnywhere is a JavaScript app that can easily be modified to do malicious things. It was a great solution back when security concerns were less severe, but I wouldn't recommend using it on a public computer these days.

    Because of security concerns, the outdated interface, incompatibility with our new sync format, difficulties in using it outside of Dropbox due to modern browser restrictions, and other reasons, we finally decided to stop supporting 1PasswordAnywhere with the release of 1Password 6 (it's no longer included in new Agile Keychain files). We know some customers still like and use it (and can continue to do so as long as it still works for them), but we just couldn't justify continuing to offer that feature in its current form. Personally, I'd love it if we were able to bring it back for local vaults (i.e. vault that are not part of a 1Password for Teams or 1Password for Families account), but at this time I just don't know for sure whether or not that will happen.

    The new, fully-featured web app included with Teams/Families is far more secure, advanced, and easier to use than 1PasswordAnywhere - but if web access is the only feature of Teams/Families that you're interested in, I can understand why it might not seem like the right fit for you. There are certainly other benefits to having a Teams/Families subscription (such as the use of 1Password apps on all supported platforms at no additional charge, including Pro Features in 1Password for iOS and Premium Features in 1Password for Android, as well as always getting the latest versions of the apps as long as you're subscribed), but again, I understand if you aren't interested in those.

    I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you about all that, but I hope this helps to explain the situation a bit more. If you do have more questions, please don't hesitate to let us know. Cheers! :)

  • @Drew_AG, you are completely missing the point.

    I'm sorry you're disappointed in 1PasswordAnywhere being phased out!

    I never was disappointed in this, and actually the contrary is true. When I first heard that 1PasswordAnywhere was deprecated and that it is going to be replaced by something less outdated I was glad to hear this.

    I understood the technical reasons and I also felt that an improvement was overdue, because, for an iCloud syncer it is very inconvenient to have to temporarily switch to DropBox just to make 1P spit out the damn emergency web access file. (Not to speak of the various access problems with it.)

    That’s why most of the times I practiced the ridiculous 1980s-like workaround of carrying a sheet of paper with important data when traveling.

    But this was tolerable, because it was just a temporary inconvenience. I believed. And 1P seemed it well worth to hold out a for the time being!

    But now I’m getting it clearer and clearer that a new and improved web access will never arrive. It has arrived for 60$/year family and team users, but it likely will never arrive for me as normal, single user, who is “only” purchasing the apps.

    This is what I’m disappointed with!

    And absolutely not —to repeat it— the fact that the much hated, clumsy and unreliable 1PasswordAnywhere has reached the end of its live.

    but at this time I just don't know for sure whether or not that will happen.

    Thanks for being straight up and not beating about the bush like some of your colleagues.

    I highly appreciate this, because somebody in the backyard of my brain once again is trying to convince me to be a bit more patient and hold out a little bit longer, because it just would be very unlikely that a trustworthy company like AgileBits wouldn’t deliver, and not come up with a reasonable solution some time soon.

    But this is self-deception, I finally got it now. Thanks.

  • Drew_AGDrew_AG 1Password Alumni

    Hi @mot,

    Thanks for clarifying that! I'm glad I misunderstood, and that you're not disappointed with 1PasswordAnywhere being phased out. :)

    I completely understand that you're disappointed in the new web access being available only in Teams/Families accounts, which you're not interested in paying for. As I'm sure you're aware, Teams/Families accounts and their web access are services (not just apps) which work through our own secure servers - that's why there's a monthly or yearly subscription cost associated with that.

    Because the new web access depends on our servers, we'd have to come up with something very different in order to provide a similar feature for customers who use the 1Password apps without a Teams/Families account (i.e. something that can be self-hosted, or that would work through a different cloud sync service such as Dropbox). And personally, I really hope we're able to do that at some point! But you're right that if we ever do, it likely won't be in the near future.

    Thanks for being straight up and not beating about the bush like some of your colleagues.

    Hmm, when I read that, it didn't seem like beating around the bush to me, but I suppose it could be interpreted that way. I'm sorry if that's how it sounded! I think his point was simply that Teams/Families accounts are available for individuals too, it doesn't require multiple members of a team or family.

    Anyway, we definitely do appreciate your feedback. We're here for you if you need anything else! :)

  • edited March 2016

    Thanks for clarifying that! I'm glad I misunderstood, and that you're not disappointed with 1PasswordAnywhere being phased out. :)

    You’re welcome. Glad I could help you to get on topic ;)

    No, seriously: Saying that I’m disappointed with ‘1PasswordAnywhere phasing out’ I took for a (not so nice) attempt to trivialize and ridicule my post; for being being able to be disappointed with the pass away of 1PasswordAnywhere an elevated amount of ignorance or dullness is required.

    1PasswordAnywhere != The functionality that 1PasswordAnywhere is/was supposed to deliver.

    I completely understand that you're disappointed in the new web access being available only in Teams/Families accounts, which you're not interested in paying for.

    [emphasis by me]

    Well, the first thing to note is that the Teams/Families accounts are optionlessly offering things I don’t need. And actually it’s AgileBits who is not interested in the customer’s needs.

    You will tell me now that there was an overwhelming demand for team sharing and almost no demand for emergency web access.

    This may be correct, but you are forgetting that the average customer will demand emergency web access only once he has experienced that he needed it. Fortunately this will not happen frequently, but when it happens his disappointment (and his troubles) will be real.

    In that sense, a little bit of foreseeing customer care wouldn’t be too bad, right?

    As I'm sure you're aware, Teams/Families accounts and their web access are services (not just apps) which work through our own secure servers - that's why there's a monthly or yearly subscription cost associated with that.

    Of course. I already mentioned that a “lite” variant, as supposed by @danco, would be acceptable. The gross should be paid by customers who really are using the full package.

    Because the new web access depends on our servers, we'd have to come up with something very different in order to provide a similar feature for customers who use the 1Password apps without a Teams/Families account (i.e. something that can be self-hosted, or […]

    Why? See above, lite variant. Also interesting, this pricing model. The 1$ thing I would buy, a no-brainer ;)

    But you're right that if we ever do, it likely won't be in the near future.

    Thanks again for your honesty.

    BTW, I’m understanding what AgileBits is doing. Currently we’re in a transition phase. Later on the non-subscription model will disappear or be redefined as 1P Lite.

    And it makes sense from a business point of view: 5 years ago this wouldn’t have been possible, 80% of the people didn’t know what a password manager is and that they needed one. But nowadays a password manager has become almost as essential as an address book.

    Considering that vastly inferior apps/concepts like Dashlane are already taking 40$/a for a single user account, I would do the same thing. — But I’m on the other end of the barrel and so I’m not interested in these price levels to get established ;)

    Hmm, when I read that, it didn't seem like beating around the bush to me, but I suppose it could be interpreted that way. I'm sorry if that's how it sounded! I think his point was simply that Teams/Families accounts are available for individuals too, it doesn't require multiple members of a team or family.

    Alright, he was explaining then that a thing that works for ≥1 persons also will work for 1 person, which implies he’s considering the user an idiot ;) The more favorable interpretation is that the guy just dodged. But I understand that you won’t comment on the communications of your colleagues here. So let’s just drop this. (And sorry for mentioning it at all; it was not necessary.)

    Anyway, we definitely do appreciate your feedback. We're here for you if you need anything else!

    [emphasis by me]

    Fix the hole in the roof —without trying to sell me a new house— and only then let’s talk about dripping faucets. Anything else is pathetic.

    ************************************************************************************************

    Now —to be a bit more constructive— a pragmatic question:

    Which possibilities do we have, concretely and currently and in the near future, to prevent getting locked out of our data when traveling, that is…

    • the iPhone is lost
    • and we don’t have full access to a Mac (i.e. we can’t import a stored pif file)
    • but we have restricted access to another computer, most likely a Windows box, with or without internet access but always with access to USB sticks

    What comes to (my) mind so far is:

    • Making a short-time (1-month?) team subscription before leaving home (see @danco)
    • Dumping the 1P database in clear text, saving it to a Cryptomator disk image on DropBox or similar or USB stick (I didn’t check if the Cryptomator app is portable on Win, likely Yes)
    • Importing the 1P database into a KeePass-compatible database, storing the database on Dropbox or similar or USB stick.
    • [1PasswordAnywhere: not reliable and passing away, so we’ll forget it.]

    I’ve already tried to start a downloaded 1P Win exe from a USB stick but it insists to install itself. A portable version might help here.

    Please add anything that comes to mind to the list.

    Thanks, and Thanks @Drew_AG for your dedicated answer.

    PS: Your Markdown interpreter has a flaw: after an 'hr' (---) it sets the font-size of the next line to something very small.

  • Hi @mot,

    BTW, I’m understanding what AgileBits is doing. Currently we’re in a transition phase. Later on the non-subscription model will disappear or be redefined as 1P Lite.

    Support is simply more than trying to fix a technical issue, it's also about being the bridge between the users and the decision makers. Now the likes of Dave (as in Dave Teare, one of the founders) still posts in the forums so I don't want to suggest they aren't in touch with those that use the product but they've got a lot of decisions to make and it means maybe he can't spend the time with the users that he would wish. Our role means we spend time with the users and over time we build up a fairly good idea of what our users are like and how they may react to certain decisions. We don't always get it right but I'm saying all of this because while we're excited about 1Password for Teams and 1Password Families, and I think they will both serve a very real need for many people, they won't be what everybody is looking for. Simply put I know we have many users that use 1Password because we have the option to not sync with any cloud service, even one we've designed where we can't access the data because that's what those users want. I have routinely brought their case forward to the point where I'm pretty sure somebody would like to say "we heard you the first 100 times LittleBobbyTables" because it's important to me and over time I've been reassured once you get past all the excitement of Teams and families. We have no intention right now of abandoning people who want to purchase a licence and use it as a standalone client. Obviously certain decisions are driven by our users. Say in five years basically nobody uses the client in a standalone way and everybody uses either 1Password for Teams or 1Password Families. We would want to factor that in to how we operate but the reversal is true too, there's no point insisting on 1Password for Teams and 1Password Families if nobody uses it. Obviously both are extremes but I hope it makes the point. We don't plan on forgetting about everybody that has purchased 1Password in the past.

    Yes, much of the development time has been sucked up by 1Password for Teams and Families but feature improvement in the client hasn't stood still. Examples are the All Vaults view whose necessity was increased by Teams but something that everybody can take advantage of. Working on CloudKitJS so that once again AgileBits Store customers could use iCloud Sync is an example of something that will never benefit anybody solely using 1Password for Teams or 1Password Families. We worked on it because we were always sad that during 1Password 5 for Mac our AgileBits Store customers lost the ability to do so.

    Now, back to 1PasswordAnywhere. I agree with you. The notion of a $5 monthly subscription simply to replace this one small feature would be ludicrous. Now the subscription service does mean access to all future updates and access to 1Password on all supported platforms which should sweeten the deal a little but I wouldn't ever argue with somebody that still found purchasing licences better value for money. I have my views on Office365 and Adobe's subscription service which just by mentioning you can guess at.

    So what real options exist for you right now?

    The idea of a short-term subscription is an interesting one but I don't envisage it occurring any time soon unless it somebody sees it as being inspired and meeting a real need. Maybe some day but right now the list of things needing done is extensive and we already have a large wishlist of what happens after version 1.0 of 1Password for Teams. While I could easily be wrong I just don't want you to get your hopes up with this option.

    I suppose if you have a platform agnostic encryption program that can easily be run from a restricted account on a unknown machine then you could print your vault and store the PDF. That would in some way allow access as use in a last resort type situation.

    Another possibility that stands out but probably impractical due to cost is something like the Intel Compute Stick, a full PC in the space of something that looks like a pen drive and plugs into the HDMI port of a TV or display. It's a fully-fledged PC so you could have your own copy of 1Password for Windows on it with your encrypted vault. This of course assumes it isn't stored with the iOS device and would be unlikely to face the same fate, maybe because it was stored in the hotel room's safe for example. This does have a very real cost though as while the devices aren't badly priced it's still a PC and copy of Windows. Due to the price it doesn't feel like a feasible solution even though from a different level it would meet requirements.

    I'll mull over your query as I don't have any real solutions that spring to mind.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited March 2016

    Currently we’re in a transition phase. Later on the non-subscription model will disappear or be redefined as 1P Lite.

    @mot: That just isn't the case. I'll put this even more simply, at the risk of sounding overly capitalistic:

    If some people want to give us their money for a subscription and others want to give us their money for a license to the standalone app(s), it would probably not be a good business decision to take one of those off of the table — especially since we absolutely need the apps themselves as clients for 1Password for Teams/Families anyway.

    Suffice to say, we don't currently have plans to refuse to sell a license to you or anyone else. ;)

    This may be correct, but you are forgetting that the average customer will demand emergency web access only once he has experienced that he needed it. Fortunately this will not happen frequently, but when it happens his disappointment (and his troubles) will be real.

    The problem with this argument is that the average customer doesn't care about web access. The people who do really love it (which is why we can't in good conscience leave 1PasswordAnywhere around to give people a false sense of security), and as lil bobby mentioned, many people originally chose 1Password specifically because it can be used entirely without "the cloud" (and thus no web access).

    That said, there are few things we'd rule out entirely for the future, so we can absolutely consider your suggestions. But given limited resources, it just isn't likely that we'd be able to do any of this in the near-term, even if it was something we agreed on. :pirate:

  • @brenty

    The problem with this argument is that the average customer doesn't care about web access.

    I'm not sure what sort of data you're relying on to define "average", but many of us "average" paying customers, who cannot install 1password on their work computers, and spend a great deal of time on other non-supported platforms such as Linux, do care about and need web access to access our passwords. The problem here is that you guys are masquerading an upgrade to 1passwordAnywhere, which some users do need, as a feature bundled in a completely different and subscription-based service solely based around sharing passwords, which some users, and dare I say most 1password users, don't really want. I understand this is a business and you need to make money but at some point you'll have to choose which customers you're willing to lose.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    I'm not sure what sort of data you're relying on to define "average", but many of us "average" paying customers, who cannot install 1password on their work computers, and spend a great deal of time on other non-supported platforms such as Linux, do care about and need web access to access our passwords.

    @sndr: While that's absolutely true for some like yourself, most people use the native 1Password apps on a Mac or iOS device, with Android and Windows being slightly less common. I know this because I interact with them every day.

    The problem here is that you guys are masquerading an upgrade to 1passwordAnywhere, which some users do need, as a feature bundled in a completely different and subscription-based service solely based around sharing passwords, which some users, and dare I say most 1password users, don't really want. I understand this is a business and you need to make money but at some point you'll have to choose which customers you're willing to lose.

    No one is masquerading anything. Given the overwhelmingly positive response that 1Password Teams/Families has received, I can tell you you're mistaken about "most users" not wanting it. Maybe you'd be surprised that many people have families with a bunch of devices. Even if they don't share anything (though most of us do), not having to worry about licenses or fiddle with setting up vaults and sync settings is pretty awesome. People have been asking us for this for years, so it wasn't a surprise to us that people were excited about it — though the sheer volume of feedback has surpassed my modest expectations. But even if that weren't the case, why should that matter to you? If you don't want it yourself, that's fine. But don't begrudge anyone else their own choice.

    Ultimately you're entitled to think whatever you want, but there's a big difference between a persistent service that allows you to share data seamlessly, while still being encrypted, without either party needing to know the others' Master Password, which is also never transmitted to the server. 1Password Teams/Families isn't an "upgrade" to 1PasswordAnywhere. If it was, you could simply download the webpage and use it yourself. But it's actually built from the ground up to be secure, whereas a single HTML file based on old standards that someone malicious could easily modify presents obvious challenges.

    Some people continue to use 1PasswordAnywhere. We're not out to stop anyone from doing that if they want to, just as we don't try to stop people from running obsolete, insecure operating systems or old, slow hardware. That's a personal choice. Both 1PasswordAnywhere and 1Password Teams/Families can — and do — exist. 1PasswordAnywhere is simply based on old technology and has some limitations, and the time has come that we all recognize that. That's just the reality.

    Anyway, 1Password Families/Teams doesn't have to appeal to everyone. And I'm not sure how that equates with "lost customers". After all, nothing has been taken away from you. You can continue to use 1Password as you always have. It just doesn't make sense to throw away a tool that's useful to you just because some people are using a different one that's better suited to them.

  • @brenty I appreciate the value of a sharing passwords in a Team/Families environment. I'm not begrudging anyone who wants to pay for that service. It's a free country. However, my point had very little to do with the effectiveness of such a service and more to do with an existing feature that you're essentially hijacking from your users and repackaging into a new service, and saying: "Hey if you want to continue syncing your passwords, you can do it as usual with 1PasswordAnywhere until it doesn't work anymore OR if you want to sync your password in a new and exciting way, on OUR servers so we can charge for it, all you HAVE to do is sign up for 1Password Teams/Families"
    $5/month isn't a lot of money, but engaging in underhanded tactics with current users? Major slap in the face. I can't possibly be the first one to point this out.

    1Password Teams/Families isn't an "upgrade" to 1PasswordAnywhere.

    I agree but you completely misunderstood what I said. I specifically referred to 1PasswordAnywhere as a feature and 1Password Teams/Families as a service. Essentially, as I said in the first paragraph, you want us to buy into another service (Team/Families) to regain access to the long overdue updates to web access (1PasswordAnywhere) we already had and paid for.

    Some people continue to use 1PasswordAnywhere. We're not out to stop anyone from doing that if they want to...

    I would disagree. By deprecating (changing to a new vault format, which is incompatible with 1passwordAnywhere and making us jump through hoops to go back to the old vault format, which will eventually become obsolete) the ability to sync to third party servers, you're or will be eventually stopping us from syncing and eliminating web access of our passwords

    ...After all, nothing has been taken away from you

    Well... not yet. Now that support for 1PasswordAnywhere has ceased, eventually it will not work at all, **taking away* a very important feature from current users.

    ...most people use the native 1Password apps on a Mac or iOS device, with Android and Windows being slightly less common. I know this because I interact with them every day.

    I think what you're saying is that 1Password is prioritizing the needs of Mac or iOS users? What do you say to someone like me who wants to continue access to his/her passwords in a cohesive way on other platforms besides Mac and iOS, and feels he/she shouldn't have to pay again for that feature?

  • Hi @sndr,

    First of all, I'd like to apologize. We value our customers here at AgileBits, and we never want users to feel like they're being forced to upgrade (or to choose the new service over the existing app that is working just fine for them.)

    I really appreciate you taking the time to share your workflow and how 1PasswordAnywhere has been helpful to you. As you have noted, 1PasswordAnywhere was designed for a much earlier version of 1Password, and it is in desperate need of an update. We know this, and we have been listening to users (you're not the only one who's told us how valuable you find web access!)

    At this time, our development focus has been on 1Password for Teams and 1Password Families, which Brenty mentioned does include a web interface, and we hope this will help a lot of users. But not everyone wants a subscription service. We get that.

    At this time, I don't know what the future of 1Password web access will look like, but I can promise you that we are listening to all the feedback about what is important to you, and we will do all we can to ensure that 1Password continues to meet your needs.

  • @Megan Thanks for the response. I hope everyone at Agile shares your vision for 1Password.
    I loved 1Password when I signed up for it about 6 months ago. I invested in the desktop and iOS apps, wallowed through the shortcomings of 1PasswordAnywhere, sort of found a happy medium, and hoped things would improve.
    After trying 1Password Teams/Families and win10 app for the last week or so, it's painfully obvious that none are ready for prime time. Not by a long shot. It's definitely not something I would pay for in its current state. So this has left me with very little confidence in 1Password being suitable to my needs based on the direction it seems to be going at the moment. I have to find something else.

  • Hi @sndr,

    Thank you for the reply! If you rely on Windows, 1Password for Teams and 1Password Families are still not quite a perfect solution for you. Our developers are working on bringing Teams and Families support to Windows just as soon as possible, but I understand that this is leaving you wanting more.

    I'm so sorry to hear that you're losing confidence in 1Password, and I'd love to do what I can to regain your trust. If there is anything that you would like to discuss further about 1Password's direction, I'd be happy to continue this conversation - either here, or via email at [email protected]

  • edited April 2016

    I'm not sure what sort of data you're relying on to define "average", but many of us "average" paying customers, who cannot install 1password on their work computers, and spend a great deal of time on other non-supported platforms such as Linux, do care about and need web access to access our passwords. The problem here is that you guys are masquerading an upgrade to 1passwordAnywhere, which some users do need, as a feature bundled in a completely different and subscription-based service solely based around sharing passwords, which some users, and dare I say most 1password users, don't really want. I understand this is a business and you need to make money but at some point you'll have to choose which customers you're willing to lose.

    That’s a very perfect sum-up of what I wanted to say with my original post and worded in a better English than I’ll ever be capable of.

    The ‘Let’s first go there where the money lures’ behavior seems to be something typical of Agilebits. I recall a discussion about the Touch Behavior some time ago. It’s fine to go for the “most demanded” features first, but 1P is a security-related product, and Agilebits really should be get aware of this.

  • edited April 2016

    I'm not sure what sort of data you're relying on to define "average", but many of us "average" paying customers, who cannot install 1password on their work computers, and spend a great deal of time on other non-supported platforms such as Linux, do care about and need web access to access our passwords. The problem here is that you guys are masquerading an upgrade to 1passwordAnywhere, which some users do need, as a feature bundled in a completely different and subscription-based service solely based around sharing passwords, which some users, and dare I say most 1password users, don't really want. I understand this is a business and you need to make money but at some point you'll have to choose which customers you're willing to lose.

    That’s a very perfect sum-up of what I wanted to say with my original post and worded in a better English than I’ll ever be capable of.

    The ‘Let’s first go there where the money lures’ behavior seems to be something typical of Agilebits. I recall a discussion about the Touch Behavior some time ago. It’s fine to go for the most demanded features first, but 1P is a security-related product, and Agilebits really should be get aware of this.

    I've left 1P for the obvious security/accessibility concerns. I'm still undecided where to go. For the moment the most important stuff is in LP, but with LP being so crappy I'll certainly find a better solution.

    And Thanks to the marketing staff for the sometimes good support here in the forum, but sometimes also for the (too) many fluffy words without any backup.

    Ciao

  • vplewisvplewis Junior Member

    @mot I totally agree with that last part: "And Thanks to the . . . good support here in the forum . . ."

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited April 2016

    @vplewis: Thank you! I think we can still do better, but we really do try. :blush:

    @mot: It's interesting you bring up the Touch ID settings. We're actually experimenting with some changes to this in the current beta. We'll see how it goes during testing. But I'm not sure what Touch ID has to do with money.

    It's certainly difficult when we've explained our position and people still want yet another explanation. That's where I know I can personally sometimes be too verbose: what needed to be said already has been. Sometimes it seems like saying the same thing in a different way is helpful. I know that I don't always absorb everything depending on how its presented. But while reiteration can be helpful in some cases, it is ultimately redundant. It is what it is.

    1PasswordAnywhere has had a good run since its inception way back in the last decade. Technically it will continue to work as it always has, but external pressures such as browser security restrictions and Dropbox changes have presented more and more obstacles over time. And while Dropbox has been a great help to us by allowing 1PasswordAnywhere a kind of access that it doesn't afford other data stored in our Dropbox accounts, that's simply not going to be possible going forward. This is inevitable. There isn't anything that AgileBits can do about it. And frankly Dropbox should be free to make the changes they feel are necessary to their web interface without worrying about breaking compatibility with our code.

    So that leaves us with a few options going forward:

    1. Host your own 1PasswordAnywhere
    2. Pay for 1Password Teams/Families
    3. Don't pay for 1Password Teams/Families, and use the web interface in read-only mode

    In order for any of this to work, someone has to host the data. In the past, that was Dropbox. As far as I know that still works today, but it won't work forever. Some people also host it themselves. And finally, AgileBits can offer a web interface which is hosted as part of 1Password Teams/Families.

    But hosting isn't free. Dropbox offers a free tier in the hopes that people will become paying customers eventually. Is that greedy of them? Not really. Every free account costs them money. They simply absorb that cost as part of their model. They plan for it. Similarly, people can create a 1Password Teams/Families account and never pay for it. AgileBits is still paying to host that data. Similarly, our hope is that people will find that it provides a value to them so they'll pay for it as well. But ultimately some people will not subscribe, and use the web interface in read-only mode to access their data in the browser, just like 1PasswordAnywhere.

    So as far as the topic of this discussion, the only things that have changed are the host (Dropbox → AgileBits) and the name (1PasswordAnywhere → 1Password Teams/Families). Both are web interfaces, and both can be used freely if you wish, with 1Password Families/Teams offering in-browser editing on top of that for subscribers (among other things). Nothing's been taken away from you or anyone else, and a lot of folks are excited about some of the possibilities afforded by their new 1Password accounts. We also put our time and energy and heart an soul into 1Password Teams/Families because it's something we care about and want to exist. We haven't made a cent on it yet, and if it was all about the money we could have found an easier way to get it. :)

  • Hi @farmdoc,

    I’m so glad to see that Danco was able to help you out! (Thanks for the awesome answer, @danco!)

    I hope that you now have 1Password set up and syncing smoothly across all your devices, but if you have any further questions or concerns, we’re always here for you. :)

  • I dropped by here once again, with the intention to delete my forum account, but then I saw this in @brenty ’s post:

    So that leaves us with a few options going forward:
    […]
    3. Don't pay for 1Password Teams/Families, and use the web interface in read-only mode

    Well, this would be exactly what I was asking for since post #1 in this thread. A web-read-only subset of the Teams features.

    As far as I have seen, this option has never been mentioned before in this thread, nor did I find it anywhere on the forum.

    So I’m wondering, is this new, was I blind, or are you wrong?

    This is also contradictory to the Teams FAQ:

    When the beta expires you will have the opportunity to transition to the paid plan. If you choose not to join the paid plan, you won’t be able to create new vaults or items, but you and your teammates will still be able to sign in, view, and export all your data.

    So the FAQ essentially says that a Team vault in non-paying mode is readable but frozen. (Which of course makes it pretty inadequate as emergency web access.)

    What you are saying – if I got you right – is that, in non-paying mode, the web interface is read-only, which implies that the vault per se is still editable (for example by adding/removing records to the Team vault via the 1P app).

    @brenty, can you confirm any of the two informations?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @mot: Like I said, without a subscription, 1Password Families/Teams is read-only, which includes the web interface. You can login and access your data. We don't lock you out of it. But nothing can be changed. I'm not sure what kind of a distinction you're trying to draw between "read-only" and "frozen". I think we may be getting hung up on semantics. The two things you quoted are saying the same thing only using different words (since I didn't happen to write that FAQ). Let me know if you have any other questions! :)

This discussion has been closed.