a general question about license...

@airok: Indeed. I'm sorry for the confusion! Definitely check out the differences between 1Password Families and the standalone license. In either case, you get a free trial, so you can see which one is a better fit for you. And we're here to answer any questions you might have about either. :chuffed:

thanks so much for the clarification. so i guess i have to purchase 1 single license for my mac and PC, and also upgrade my android app to premium service, which is OK.

@airok: Any time! Honestly, if you've just started using 1Password for Android, you'll have 30 days to try the Pro Features, and after that you can still use the app for free without them if you choose.

Once i purchased all the license, can they all sycn to my existing password vault on dropbox though? This is really the biggest concern ... i really don't want to re-create all the records all over again...

Oh dear me, yes!!! Manually re-entering everything on each device is a fate I wouldn't wish on anyone! Just setup each device to sync with the same vault in Dropbox, and you'll be good to go. And we're always here to help. Cheers! :)

On behalf of Brenty, you are quite welcome! :)

Have a great rest of your week!

Can you clarify what AgileBits means by personal use?

@benfdc: I think it's pretty simple. Let me know if this makes sense: if you're using it to run a business with your employees/coworkers/bosses/etc., then 1Password Families is not for you. You're right that it's a bit vague, and that's for a reason: "family" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. It's difficult to say definitively what constitutes a family, and we don't feel right trying to dictate that to you. But if there's a payroll involved, you should probably be using 1Password Teams.

We try to make it a little clearer in the reverse, by including features that business users want — or need — in 1Password Teams, like granular access controls, custom groups, and auditing. While there are probably some families out there that would want these things, they're probably in the minority, and it won't hurt them to use 1Password Teams instead. In the end, I don't think 1Password Families needs a strict EULA. It's businesses that need to meet auditing, privacy, and security requirements, not mom and pop.

You're right to point out that a traditional 1Password license doesn't draw this kind of distinction at all, but that's because the standalone apps aren't capable of the things that make 1Password Families/Teams special, and that really comes down to cloud storage and collaboration. And this is really a very different beast than something like Office, where people are actually creating content which would be subject to the EULA if it's to be used for commercial purposes. But I may be overlooking something else specific you had in mind. Let me know what you think! :)

@benfdc: Oh, this is good! Thanks, Ben! :)

OK, @brenty, l think I'm good on the "families" part. It's great that you are liberal about it because the Account Recovery feature works best if there is a critical mass of trustworthy users.

Cool! And so true! :chuffed:

Here is something specific that I have in mind which you may be overlooking. I have a psychiatrist friend with a solo practice and several kids. She has a personal life, but she also has passwords that relate to her medical practice, as well as a business credit card and business checking account. Can she put work-related items in a 1Password Families vault that she accesses on a Mac, iPhone, or iPad? Same question for her oldest child, who works in an accounting firm.

I see what you mean! I appreciate the concrete example. This is problematic, but perhaps not for the reasons you might think. The issue here is that (much like laws involving mortality in the digital age) the concept of the EULA itself hasn't kept up with reality. While policy will always trail
technology to some extent (see copyright and patent law), EULAs are made by technology companies (or, their lawyers at least) yet they don't reflect how software is used in the real world.

If it is OK to do these things, then there absolutely positively ought to be a 1Password Families EULA. Without one, these uses are barred by Apple's App Store EULA, which expressly provides that apps purchased by individuals in a personal capacity cannot be used for commercial purposes.
As I have mentioned in the past, you also need to have an EULA for the non-subscription version of 1Password for iOS because without one the product is crippled. Consider my friend who works for an accounting firm. She cannot presently put work-related passwords into 1Password on her iPhone or iPad without violating the App Store EULA, which governs use of the app in the absence of an EULA from AgileBits. If she buys 1P/iOS in her individual capacity, it's licensed strictly for non-commercial use. Her employer could purchase a copy of 1Password for iOS for her use, but the employer's license only authorizes use of the app on devices that the employer owns or controls.

I hate to pick on Apple because I love their stuff and respect them immensely, but how many of their own employees have separate iPhones for work and home, and only ever access work-related information on company equipment, using company-purchased software? Tim Cook can afford it, but I wonder if even he does this. And certainly it's doubtful that Apple wants to pay for duplicate hardware for each employee. The whole thing just breaks down under scrutiny.

So, coming back around to the question and example, we absolutely don't expect your friend to pay for a 1Password Families subscription, use it only for "personal" use, and then pay for a separate 1Password Teams subscription to use only for "business" stuff. I think we can both agree that would be nuts.

Based on your description, she could be fine with either. But one reason I can think of for her to go with 1Password Teams over 1Password Families is if she would like to invite Guests or additional Members in a business context. This isn't because of any rules we want to impose so much as she probably would want to exercise much tighter control over who has exactly which kind of access to what. For example, she may need to share financial logins or information securely with her accountant, but not allow them to make changes to the data or export it.

The same problem applies to the App Store version of 1Password for Mac, but that problem can be circumvented by purchasing directly from AgileBits rather than through Apple.

That's an excellent point, and I'd submit that if you're paying AgileBits directly for a 1Password Families/Teams subscription, the same applies. In that case, you're not using 1Password for iOS Pro Features purchased from Apple: it's part of your subscription with AgileBits.

Your response suggests that there may be an EULA for 1Password Teams, but I can't find one on the website. Can you supply a link?

We don't have a EULA, but we could. It's something we've discussed, but not formalized. We may in the future, but for the reasons outlined above there's a strong feeling that it simply isn't appropriate. After all, what purpose would a EULA serve? We don't have any designs of using such a thing as a cudgel against our own customers, many of whom would almost certainly violate it regardless of the terms we choose.

But of course you're absolutely right to ask these kinds of questions, especially since there are companies out there that do have rather adversarial relationships with their customers. If you or anyone else is in that position, that's something to take under separate consideration, but that's not us. We're just happy to to have you and everyone else who's willing to support us so we can continue doing what we love: making 1Password better, for all of us!

Now, to break it down a bit further, if you're a person planning on claiming the subscription as a business expense, you should really be using 1Password Teams, even if you're a business of one. And similarly 1Password Teams (especially a Pro subscription) is better if you have strict auditing and access requirements. But these are legal/financial concerns not from our perspective as a software company, but for you as an individual/businessperson with fiscal and administrative obligations. This isn't for our benefit, but to keep you on the windy side of the IRS, SEC, etc. We're just here to provide the tools to empower you to get things done. :)

Apple isn't going to change it, so unless AgileBits moots it by publishing a EULA then it will be violated by a very large number of your users. [...] Incidentally, it might be good for business to have a EULA for the iOS 1Password Pro upgrade which explicitly authorizes commercial use. But I digress …

@benfdc: Both excellent points! This is definitely something we'll continue to discuss.

Back to the question of when one should be using 1Password Teams rather than 1Password Families. Obviously, if I need the features that are unique to 1Password Teams, I have no choice but to use Teams. So the question is—suppose I don't need these advanced features.
Here is the way I am going to think about it unless you tell me that I'm off-base. If I want to include in my subscription someone that I am in business with, or in some other sort of organization with, and intend to use the sharing and account recovery features for business / organizational purposes, then AgileBits expects me to pay for 1Password Teams. Even if it's a family business! Otherwise, AgileBits is fine with me and other members of my extended family using 1Password via a 1Password Families subscription for whatever purposes we want.

Absolutely. No matter what, I think we all know whether we're running a business or not, even if it's a "family business". Now, in that case, a person in that position might say, "Well, I don't really need to features of 1Password Teams now", but if the business is successful (and many global corporations started out as a family business) it may need to take on additional non-family employees, in which case it would be crucial to compartmentalize things and not give them the same "rights" as we might a family member. 1Password Teams is meant for businesses, and is a better option for any money-making enterprise. And after all, it should be a tax write-off as a business expense. ;)

Just so you know where I am coming from, I actually am the sort of rara avis who tries to take these things seriously whenever feasible. For example, I have both Microsoft Office 2008 and Microsoft Office 2011 on my Mac. My copy of 2008 is mine, and it's licensed for all uses. I purchased several Office 2011 licenses at a massive discount through TechSoup on behalf of a nonprofit that I used to consult for on a volunteer basis. The software is licensed to the nonprofit, and the license is very restrictive—it allows use of the software only in connection with tasks performed for that nonprofit. I haven't done anything for that nonprofit for a couple of years, and consequently I haven't touched Office 2011 for years other than to install patches and security updates.

Wow. I admire your dedication! I think we can both agree that this is probably not how most people do things...but while it's unfortunate when companies impose licensing terms which force their customers to either bend over backwards in compliance or become criminals, you're absolutely right that we need to be careful to not put our customers in a different, yet equally fraught position.

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts on this. It's certainly something that warrants further examination. And even without the real-life examples you gave, those are issues we need to consider.

@benfdc: I don't have anything new to say on this topic, but I'll double check with the rest of the team to see if there's anything else we can add.