Issues in the item editor and untested beta code
Comments
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"In the new item editor we're building, we'll be testing heavily against the specs to make sure it is in full compliance." how was that something you considered optional in the first place? (I've refrained from using expletives here, but it sure wasn't easy).
Data security and integrity with something like 1Password has to paramount, there is zero wiggle room here, "beta" or not.
Calling this "beta" is an affront to developers who actually know how to write software, these are nightly builds at best.
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Hi @redoz,
"In the new item editor we're building, we'll be testing heavily against the specs to make sure it is in full compliance." how was that something you considered optional in the first place?
Because our item editor was limited already, there is a reason it can't save custom fields/sections, tags, attachments and so on.
We've only added what we can support and expand on it over time. However, there was a recent bug related to the URL field and we've decided to disable it in this state.
This doesn't mean that we were accepting random data and pushing it all across.
Data security and integrity with something like 1Password has to paramount, there is zero wiggle room here, "beta" or not.
We absolutely agree and we are working on addressing these issues.
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You've clearly admitted the editor isn't properly tested. I consider this unacceptable, you cannot release this type of software to the public with a "beta" label when you don't even know yourself whether it works or not. Your software performs one function, to securely manage my data, if it can't do that, what's the point?
This is either a sign of gross negligence or incompetence, regardless, it's a clear betrayal of customer trust, and trust is the only reason people use your product. You have to do better, there is no excuse for ever having released an untested product in this market segment.
How am I supposed to trust your product now, what else haven't you tested? In fact, the current state of the beta wont even let me create new data correctly. How do I know any of the data I entered before is valid? How do I know you wont release an update that corrupts my passwords because "oh, we haven't gotten around to testing that yet".
If you're going to release software like this, fine, then label it as such; "experimental preview", "can and will destroy your data at any given time", "not for production use", there are lots of labels to chose from, but "beta" is not one of them.
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Hi @redoz,
I've split your posts into its own thread here as it was going off the original question in the other thread.
First, I apologize for my statement that wasn't very clear.
You've clearly admitted the editor isn't properly tested. I consider this unacceptable, you cannot release this type of software to the public with a "beta" label when you don't even know yourself whether it works or not. Your software performs one function, to securely manage my data, if it can't do that, what's the point?
What I meant is that we will be testing the new item editor completely to make sure it is working correctly. That means we are not testing the current item editor nor will we restore features to it because all new work is going into the new item editor. There are two separate branches, one with the current item editor and a new branch with the new item editor. We're not going to fix the current one because the new branch is going to be merged in very soon to replace it completely.
I didn't say we didn't test the previous editor, we did and we found that there were some bugs we didn't see before, which we then shipped an update to fix it by disabling it, rather than actually fixing it. The fixes are in the new item editor.
If you're going to release software like this, fine, then label it as such; "experimental preview", "can and will destroy your data at any given time", "not for production use", there are lots of labels to chose from, but "beta" is not one of them.
I understand and I'm sorry you had to explain this to us, I'll pass it on to our team to address how we approach this labeling for new programs in the future.
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None of the things you're mentioning is giving me any confidence that you actually know how to create and test mission critical software. All I see is excuses, the fact that you're replacing the whole editing component in the "beta" stage tells me that you don't understand how software life cycle management works, or that you're letting your marketing department run roughshod over technical decisions. Neither is even remotely acceptable with this type of software.
That you even saw fit to release this as "beta" when it wasn't even built to spec is horrible, the fact that it is your own specification makes it inexcusable.
This isn't your average piece of software, you're asking me to give you all my secrets, it is on you to make sure you do everything humanly possible to protect them. You've demonstrated that's not the case, and I don't even see understanding in your answer, I just see excuses.
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@redoz: No excuses. I'm sorry for any confusion that may have been caused by previous statements that weren't clear enough, but you're trying to choose our words for us and taking some things out of context as well. It's always difficult with these sorts of things in this environment, and the message sent is never the message received.
But that doesn't mean we give up; we're happy to clarify anything you have questions about, and also to improve the new app so you and our awesome customers don't need to ask so many questions and can just get on with your lives. We're certainly not satisfied with the current beta, which is why we continue to work toward the final release. But software is a step-by-step process, not something that happens in one fell swoop. And we completely understand if you or anyone else prefers to wait instead of helping test the prerelease version.
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@brenty I was obviously rather livid yesterday which means I laid it on pretty thick which wasn't necessary, but I still stand by what I said.
You're not developing a game here, this is serious software and serious software needs serious processes. For something like this I expect you to have close to 100% test coverage, you simply cannot risk the security and integrity of user data.
No one has a need for a 1Password that doesn't guarantee data integrity, adding "Beta" to the product doesn't abscond you of responsibility here. You could've released a "technical preview without any data integrity testing" but no one would want that, as data integrity and security is the core of your product.
I already paid for my Families account, and I wont try to cancel that, a deal is a deal after all. But I am deeply disappointed in the approach you're taking to developing this piece of software. I didn't make the choice to use 1Password lightly, and now I just feel betrayed.
I'm going to treat your software as read-only for the time being until I can figure out how to manage this part of my digital life, the fact that the windows software doesn't offer an export functionality obviously doesn't make me any happier about this.
You can of course chose to ignore me, that's fine, I'm one guy, I wont have an impact on your bottom line. Keep doing what you're doing, I wont let it have an effect on me anymore.
But here's my two cents anyway, take it or leave it:
Admit that your current windows release isn't worthy of the beta label, and relabel it accordingly, add warnings to indicate that this is not tested, and no guarantees are given. At least then you're being honest with the people who are using it.Set up a development and release process that works, this includes testing this thing so that you are as close to 100% certain as humanly possible that it is not broken. If this is already part of your current process, then you need to find out what you're doing wrong and fix it. Be open with how you are going to improve the process, tell us what checks and balances you're adding to making sure untested code doesn't get released again.
Ultimately I don't care anymore, I 've tried to be a good citizen and report all the bugs I've found and suggest improvements where I see a need, but your problems run far deeper than that. If you can't see that, nothing I do here matters anyway.
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Hi @redoz,
I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling this way. We work on improving 1Password every day. Thank you for your feedback on 1Password and how you'd like for us to handle Betas and testing. I hope you like the end result once 1Password 6 for Windows has been taken out of the Beta state. :chuffed:
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@Pilar I no longer have any confidence in your ability to produce quality software, would you trust a company like that with all your secrets? I consider this to be an extremely serious matter but if all you're going to provide is platitudes and smiley faces I take it you don't. All I have left to do at this point is wish you good luck, you're going to need it.
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@redoz: I'm sorry that you're dissatisfied with the 1Password 6 Windows beta and our sincere attempts to respond to your concerns. We can agree to disagree about what "beta" means, but there's no excuse for being rude. That's not the same as constructive criticism, and is of somewhat less benefit to everyone, including other users.
And while I appreciate that you're frustrated, we need to keep the forums as friendly as possible for the wide range of people that visit, and that means being considerate and respectful of others. Please keep that in mind in the future. You're welcome here, so long as you can adhere to some basic guidelines:
Forum guidelines
Whichever path you choose, we'll continue to work to improve 1Password for all of our customers; not relying on luck, only hard work. Take care.
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