Smart Folders Roadmap or replacement feature

Prior to 1Password for Families my wife and I have been sharing a vault via Dropbox. I'm in the process of migrating everything to our new vaults in Families, and have noticed the Folders feature no longer exists. I'm fine with that as separate vaults and tags seems to be able to give me most of what folders did.

Unfortunately, gone with it are Smart Folders.

Is there any roadmap to add Folders and/or Smart Folders back? Is there any other new feature that does the same thing as Smart Folders that I'm simply missing? I'd be happy to be educated on a cool new feature :-)


1Password Version: 6.3.1 (Mac App Store, bought prior to Families)
Extension Version: 4.5.8.90
OS Version: OSX 10.11.6 and IOS 9.3.4
Sync Type: Dropbox / Families

Comments

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @christopherphillips: Excellent point! While "folders" are pretty limiting and we have no plans to add them currently, it's certainly something we'll continue to consider. But more likely — and more useful — would be a "saved searches" feature, similar to Smart Folders, but it could be much more flexible and wouldn't be limited by platform. No "roadmap", but definitely something we'll evaluate based on interest. :)

  • @brenty : I only recently converted from OP Pro to a families account. Smart folders were my bread and butter. I use them extensively with my over 300 items in 1Password. I was surprised and quite disappointed to find them missing after conversion.

    With your "no plans to add them" remark I am left concerned. You comment that a "saved searches" feature is more likely. And more useful? Please expound.

    Whichever is likely I request that we see the capability quite soon.

  • JacobJacob

    Team Member

    @Tsetsoh Good question. Smart Folders were essentially saved searches that show up in your sidebar. 1Password has search options for more advanced filtering. In 1Password for Mac, for example, choose Edit -> Find -> Show Search Options and start adding some filters. This works with 1Password accounts as well, but it doesn't have saving right now. Saving these searches would be a great alternative to Smart Folders because it's the same background. :)

  • @Jacob Thanks for the response. I agree that the search capability on the Mac version allows me to stack search options -- that gets me a one-time search that is as good as a Smart Folder. But as we've discussed it has to be done each time. A saved search would be a great benefit.

    The current Mac search options look suspiciously like the set-up required for the old Smart Folders, right? :chuffed:

    As we already know, more and more work is moving over to IOS devices. I now spend about 80% of my time on the iPad Pro (with Logitech keypad) vs the Mac machine. Capabilities are growing every day. So, developing smart search w/saving and syncing is my request. Seeing the saved search on all devices would be a real boost.

    Now, after having said the above let me add this: I have been using 1Password for a long time now, while for me it moved from a convenient alternative from what I was using to an indispensable part of my work flow. And during that time I have been continually amazed at the dedicated support from the AgileBits team. The constant advances and improvements have been very much appreciated.

    I know you'll develop a more convenient search (and save) capability across the devices. Thanks for the good work.

  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member

    Thanks for your patience, @Tsetsoh. :) I agree that saved searches would be handy in 1Password accounts. :+1:

    (Don't tell anyone else here, but I still have a vault I sync with Dropbox so I can use Smart Folders. I really like them myself.) ;)

  • I agree with you totally, @Tsetsoh!
    But we need to call a spade a spade...
    The tendency to tackle something new without having completed the old one has become noticeable for developers in various fields of activity.
    Requests to synchronize smart folders with mobile devices (no matter what technology is inside) are stretching from 2011.
    And they are not realized.

    Even such an obvious function as choosing a folder from an existing list (or creating a new one) when adding a new entry through the browser.
    It is necessary to identify such records through the smart folder to put this in order.
    And it has to be done through a computer ONLY. Uncomfortable. Non-operatively. And not contemporary.
    This is called a "crutch".

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Software is never "done", especially security software. Given that Smart Folders are a MacOS feature, they aren't available anywhere else. I hope we'll be able to do more with search in the future, but it would need to be coordinated across all platforms. And, to be frank, there are many much more popular feature and enhancement requests that we need to put first.

  • lvlikelvlike
    edited July 2017

    This is obvious, unfortunately. It's also obvious that you can do actions that attract users, or you can push to look for an alternative.
    Do not follow the path of greedy Adobe. They have already begun to lose their users. It will not be difficult to find whose model has become more reasonable.
    Especially for a growing number of mobile users.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    You're entitled to your opinion, but Smart Folders is the topic of this discussion, as they relate to 1Password. As mentioned previously, something like "saved searches" is something we'd like to do in the future, across all platforms, but there hasn't been a lot of interest in that relative to other requests, and it's not something we can work on right now.

    We're going to focus on the things that do the most good for the greatest number of our customers. It may be that we do something in this area after things we're working on currently. And certainly if there's more interest that will affect the priority as well. I'm sorry that's not the answer you want, but the reality is that there are many other factors — and customers — that we need to consider as well.

  • lvlikelvlike
    edited July 2017

    If you re-read how many years you were asked to finish this function (or it's analog) transparently for mobile devices,
    you should all be ashamed for smiling acceptance of "votes" and for cautious long and useless promises.
    And the number of those who asked for it is not the same as the number of all comers, because you did not vote at all.

    "it's a common request"

    You wrote: "I'm sorry that's not the answer you want".
    I'm not the only one; and you do not know how many users are actually ignored.

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Hi @lvlike - We appreciate the feedback. We completely understand you're not the only one requesting this feature.

    But @Brenty said it best

    ...the reality is that there are many other factors — and customers — that we need to consider as well.

    We are listening and do appreciate the interest in migrating this feature over to 1Password.com.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @lvlike: We haven't promised anything, and I didn't say you're the only one. In fact, I mentioned that we would also love this feature. But a few people a year going back a few years just isn't enough to push this to the top when there are much more popular requests. That's the reality. But it isn't the end of the world, or dire enough to make us stop smiling. I sincerely hope we will be able to add this someday. :chuffed:

  • Hi @Frank. Thank you and @brenty for attention and clarification. But I'm not interested in a paid subscription with long-term expectations. That's why I mentioned Adobe. Regular payment for partial long-term promises is an erroneous business model. IMHO.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us, @lvlike. :)

    Ben

  • OP just weighing back in on this. At just under 900 items across 5 vaults I realize I probably am not the heaviest, or lightest, user. Organization is an important issue and frankly has become one of the items I always bring up when talking about the pros/cons of a 1Password subscription with friends/family/colleagues. - "I have better sorting/finding options on vaults I sync with Dropbox." is not a sentence I like to have to utter, but it does come up every time. There are still plenty of pros to the subscription, but this isn't one of them.

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Thank you @christopherphillips - Thank you for taking the time to let us know this is something you would like to see carried over to 1Password.com in the future. We really do appreciate the feedback and thank for sharing. :+1: Enjoy the rest of your day.

  • I'm having around 1350 items in my vault and I'm only using tags, and those not even that extensively. This may be because I'm a long time Gmail user and I'm used to tags.
    But to be honest, most of the time, I only just search for the stuff I need. And if I need it more often, I put it into favorites.
    This system has worked for me so far.
    Just my 2 cents :)

  • FrankFrank

    Team Member

    Hi @Manaburner - I have a similar use case. I tend to use tags for everything which makes searching for a specific item very easy. I also like to create multiple vaults to better organize my data. Thank you for sharing :wink:

  • sroeversroever Junior Member

    A lot of 1Password's functionality is now being provided by password save/sync features in Safari or Chrome.

    A main area of differentiation is or was advanced organizational capability. Smart folders were a key part of that. I agree that saved searches can accommodate the same use cases, so either would do.

    But I think it was a really bad idea to get rid of smart folders without providing saved searches at the same time. Shouldn't be that hard to implement. Loosing smart folders is clearly step backwards. One that wasn't communicated BTW before the "upgrade" to the new version. Normally one would expect not to lose functionality in an upgrade. The upgrade was already painful for other reasons, so that came as a bad surprise.

    Basically having key organizational features like smart searches is a must have feature if 1Password wants to stay irrelevant in a world where password synchronization and cloud storage is increasingly becoming a commodity. So please get your act together and bring that functionality back asap. I bet you it's easy to do and the obstacle is just one or two people internally who don't think it's important.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @sroever: That simply isn't the case. I love them, but most users never touch Smart Folders. I'd be willing to bet that some of this is due to it being a Mac-only feature, but while 1Password started out as a Mac-only app it hasn't been for a very long time. Tags are also more flexible and a lot of folks find them less hassle to manage than folders (due to their mutually exclusive nature). So it's a matter of other things being a much higher priority based on feedback from users, rather than this not being deemed important. I'm sorry I don't have better new for you now, but it's something we'll continue to evaluate as we check some other things off our todo list.

  • sroeversroever Junior Member

    Hi Brenty,

    Thanks for your response. Sorry if I wasn't clear:

    I get and accept that using tags with saved searches achieves the same result as provided by smart folders. So why don't you just give us saved searches soon? Then the problem would be solved.

    Also, one thing to keep in mind that this is an organizational feature that would be used mostly by power users for large vaults, and most new users aren't going to use it immediately, so it's no surprise that this might not make the cut when you are prioritizing features based solely on user feedback. But it's 1Password's ability to scale to larger vaults and provide the tools to effectively manage them that will keep it relevant as Chrome and Safari add more features that overlap with 1Password. Saved searches are an important tool for organizing larger vaults. I want to be able to define searches that show me all the logins we have in our shared vault that don't meet certain criteria based on rules I've set. Smart folders allowed me to do that, and so would saved searches. But I can't do that easily anymore without saved searches. I now need to remember and retype the search every time, and more importantly so do others users of the shared vault. We can't enforce a consistent policy anymore.

    Finally, you didn't address the issue of this being functionality that was there and has been dropped now. That's generally not something that should happen unless there is a workaround, which saved searches would provide. If you do drop a feature to meet a release date for an important upgrade, then you at least should have a timeline to bring it back or provide a new solution. So it's really question of style as a company. Your users should be able to rely on the platform not going backward when they commit to it, because it's a big investment, not necessarily in money but in effort. But 1P did go backward in this one important way and that's why you have some unhappy users now.

    Best,
    Stefan

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited July 2017

    1Password.com is a brand new platform, and it's going to take time to get everything we want there, especially since it impacts all of the apps. I know it isn't ideal and we need to make improvements there as well, but you can totally tag items in accordance with "saved search" results you're looking for to pull them up easily via the tag itself or by searching for it — whether that be single or multiple tags.

    As I mentioned, we need to prioritize things that will benefit the greatest number of people. And with major browser changes on the way and a lot more behind the scenes, we can't put saved searches at the top of the list at this point. We've got a lot of power users giving us feedback too, but this just doesn't make the cut currently. We just can't do everything at once, and this isn't something we're able to work on right now. I hope that changes in the future, as I'd very much love to have saved searches available — and sync'd — on all of my devices. Sorry I don't have the answer you're hoping for right now.

  • sroeversroever Junior Member

    Thanks for your reply.

    Using tags intelligently as you're suggesting doesn't really help if you have multiple team members sharing the same vault. That's where Smart Folders or Saved Searches would help. If you want to implement common policies that all logins should conform to, everyone could immediately see which logins don't comply.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Using tags intelligently as you're suggesting doesn't really help if you have multiple team members sharing the same vault. That's where Smart Folders or Saved Searches would help.

    @sroever: Can you elaborate? It sounds like you have a very specific use case in mind, and it isn't obvious from your comments just what that is. If you just mean that different team members may tag things differently, that's more of a social matter rather than a technical one, and I'm not sure that searches solve that problem. I sometimes have trouble finding data I entered myself via search. If I can't enforce my own consistency, I'm not sure 1Password can make me either. :lol:

  • sroeversroever Junior Member

    Well, that's exactly the problem Smart Folders (and hopefully Saved Searches) helped me solve:

    Before I switched to the new version, I had Smart Folders for logins that weren't titled correctly (for example, every title should have the name of the user in it), Smart folders for logins that used parts of old standard passwords that weren't machine generated, SmartFolders for logins that didn't have a website associated with them, or that weren't filed or tagged according to policy, etc.

    So basically, the policies I set for the database were reflected via the SmartFolders. The idea was to keep them empty, only the policy violations would show up in the folders. The team collaborated via DropBox on a single database. The Smart Folders were shared across the team, so everyone could immediately see if a new login violated policy, or could check periodically in the Smart Folders and clean stuff up.

    That functionality was lost when the Shared Vault was introduced. Now it has become a social problem. I have tell everyone what the policy is and constantly remind them, and manually enforce it, vs giving the teams the tools to enforce it themselves.

    Something similar could be achieved with Saved Searches, if they are shared across devices and users.

    The main point here for my perspective is that these organizational features are what sets 1Password apart from the native browser capabilities for password syncing. Most users will not require them initially, when there vaults are small. But over time they will need them more.

    Best,
    Stefan

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Before I switched to the new version, I had Smart Folders for logins that weren't titled correctly (for example, every title should have the name of the user in it), Smart folders for logins that used parts of old standard passwords that weren't machine generated, SmartFolders for logins that didn't have a website associated with them, or that weren't filed or tagged according to policy, etc.
    So basically, the policies I set for the database were reflected via the SmartFolders. The idea was to keep them empty, only the policy violations would show up in the folders. The team collaborated via DropBox on a single database. The Smart Folders were shared across the team, so everyone could immediately see if a new login violated policy, or could check periodically in the Smart Folders and clean stuff up.

    @sroever: Thank you! I really appreciate the insight. If and when we do this, it helps to know how you and others would like to use it.

    That functionality was lost when the Shared Vault was introduced. Now it has become a social problem. I have tell everyone what the policy is and constantly remind them, and manually enforce it, vs giving the teams the tools to enforce it themselves.
    Something similar could be achieved with Saved Searches, if they are shared across devices and users.

    I think this is the key. Currently a popular request is that Favorites not work this way. They are managed at the vault level, and many people have told us that they want to be able to have separate Favorites than others sharing the same vault(s). So these are things we'll need to consider carefully from both angles.

    The main point here for my perspective is that these organizational features are what sets 1Password apart from the native browser capabilities for password syncing. Most users will not require them initially, when there vaults are small. But over time they will need them more.

    That's an excellent point. I know you mentioned it earlier, but the context really helps drive it home. Thanks for taking the time to give us a clearer picture of what you're looking for so we can take that into account as we continue building 1Password.com and the apps. :)

    ref: B5-2955

  • @sroever and @brenty - I previously used Folders extensively on my database for organization. After a little grumbling and a LOT of re-sorting I switched to tags and actually dramatically prefer them over folders. The problem is that since I'm imperfect (and share vaults with my family now) organization breaks down.

    My use case with saved searches / smart folders matches what @sroever is describing. I could easily check them for things that didn't belong and take care of them. I search (over, and over and over) for many of the same things described. Entries with 0 tags. Entries missing URL's or usernames or entries mis-titled etc.

    I value the security of OnePassword, but that part has become commoditized. Again, agreeing with @sroever the value to OnePassword isn't in the security any more. My browser can do it, MacOS can do it, and there are piles of other tools on the market that can do security. The value now is in the sharing, the ease of use, and the organization. Security that isn't "easy" is the part that the less techy members of my family want to skip over. Anything that makes it faster/easier to track and organize is where the value is at.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    @sroever and @brenty - I previously used Folders extensively on my database for organization. After a little grumbling and a LOT of re-sorting I switched to tags and actually dramatically prefer them over folders. The problem is that since I'm imperfect (and share vaults with my family now) organization breaks down.

    @christopherphillips: FANTASTIC point. I often find I screw myself in this regard as well, but I'm getting better. I think that's part of it, but we can also help with this in both the tags UI and search. Thanks for sharing your experience of transitioning from folders to tags!

    My use case with saved searches / smart folders matches what @sroever is describing. I could easily check them for things that didn't belong and take care of them. I search (over, and over and over) for many of the same things described. Entries with 0 tags. Entries missing URL's or usernames or entries mis-titled etc.

    The "over-and-over" is a great way of putting it. We should do better here, and save us all some of this repetition.

    I value the security of OnePassword, but that part has become commoditized. Again, agreeing with @sroever the value to OnePassword isn't in the security any more. My browser can do it, MacOS can do it, and there are piles of other tools on the market that can do security. The value now is in the sharing, the ease of use, and the organization. Security that isn't "easy" is the part that the less techy members of my family want to skip over. Anything that makes it faster/easier to track and organize is where the value is at.

    The tough thing (as I touched on above) is that in some ways sharing and organization are really at odds with each other, due to the human element; but as we improve both, we'll take these things into account and try to help make the experience smoother for everyone. Thank you! :chuffed:

This discussion has been closed.