Folders and local backups

I'm currently evaluating 1Password for use with several family members. However, it seems like there are at least two features when doing the family plan that are "missing". They could be potential deal-breakers:
1. The family plan application seem to be missing the ability to create a manual, local backup
2. The family plan seems to not have the ability to create folders or custom categories
What I am not sure about is why those features are missing from the family plan? I am not very familiar with 1Password (just signed up for a family evaluation), but it seems to be a downgrade from the standalone version. Why would that be? I really want this to work, as I've heard great things about 1Password for a long time.
Thanks.


1Password Version: 6.5.2
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: OS X 10.12
Sync Type: 1Password family

Comments

  • Drew_AGDrew_AG 1Password Alumni

    Hi @juanra,

    Thanks for reaching out to us with your questions about 1Password Families! I'm glad to hear you've been trying it out.

    The family plan application seem to be missing the ability to create a manual, local backup

    Your account data is automatically backed up on our servers. That's good because even if your Mac (or other local backup equipment) is lost, stolen, or damaged, you'll still be able to restore your 1Password data on another device (just sign into your account from the 1Password app).

    Having said that, your 1Password data is also stored locally on your Mac, so if you're backing up your Mac, that means you're also backing up your 1Password data. If you want to manually create a local backup in addition to that, you can simply make a copy of the local folder on your Mac which stores your 1Password data. You can find that folder here: ~/Library/Application Support/1Password 4/

    The family plan seems to not have the ability to create folders...

    In 1Password.com accounts, Folders have been replaced by Tags. Tags serve the same basic function as folders, plus you can assign multiple tags to each item (whereas an item could only be added to a single folder). When viewing a vault in the main 1Password app, you'll see Tags listed in the left sidebar below the item categories (where Folders used to appear). Is there something you'd like to be able to do with folders that isn't possible with tags?

    ...or custom categories

    This isn't possible in the "standalone version" either. So it's not something which is missing from accounts, it's just a feature that wasn't there to begin with. We think custom categories would be a great feature too, and perhaps we'll be able to add that at some point! I can let our developers know you'd also be interested in being able to create your own categories.

    For now, if you have information that doesn't seem to fit into any existing category in 1Password, the Secure Notes category is a great option, and you can even add custom fields to organize your data the way you want. A post on our blog explains more about that: Secure all the things in Secure Notes

    If you'd like to group those items together in 1Password, you can use Tags to do that. You can even add custom icons to your items if you want.

    I am not very familiar with 1Password (just signed up for a family evaluation), but it seems to be a downgrade from the standalone version.

    I'm not sure if you're referring specifically to backups and folders or if there are other things you like better about using 1Password as a standalone app instead of with an account, but an account actually gives you many features that aren't available in the standalone apps. You can read about some of the differences here: The difference between a 1Password.com account and standalone license

    I hope this helps, but if you have more questions about 1Password, please don't hesitate to let us know - we're always happy to help! :)

  • Thanks for the response, @Drew_AG.
    My comment on it seeming like a downgrade is that I would think you could have the option of either synchronizing the database with Agilebits' servers or keeping the database completely local. Also, I'm not sure why folders wouldn't be available in this version but are available in the standalone version.
    I know the automatic thing sounds great, but as an IT guy I like being able to choose whether I want to do that or do it myself. Plus, being an IT guy, I know that things happen even to large companies, and it's good to be able to make a manual backup. Well, now that you've told me where the data is, I can get it myself separately, but it'd be nice to have a little utility built into 1Password to do that (I guess that's a feature request :))
    Thanks again for the response. I'll keep evaluating it both for myself and potentially my firm.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited December 2016

    My comment on it seeming like a downgrade is that I would think you could have the option of either synchronizing the database with Agilebits' servers or keeping the database completely local.

    @juanra: You totally can! Even if you choose the subscription plan because it's simpler (and cheaper, for multiple platforms and users), you can still use local vaults. I have both. The apps are the same, after all! :chuffed:

    Also, I'm not sure why folders wouldn't be available in this version but are available in the standalone version.

    This is a decision we made to simplify things and focus on tags, because they're more flexible, since they aren't limited by the antiquated metaphor of file folders, of which any given item can only belong to one. I know that some of us (myself included) are very much used to folders, but if you've ever seen the hard drive of an average user, you'll probably have seen files just dumped everywhere. Despite my own best intentions, I don't always take the time to organize files on my own computers in folders either. ;)

    I know the automatic thing sounds great, but as an IT guy I like being able to choose whether I want to do that or do it myself. Plus, being an IT guy, I know that things happen even to large companies, and it's good to be able to make a manual backup. Well, now that you've told me where the data is, I can get it myself separately, but it'd be nice to have a little utility built into 1Password to do that (I guess that's a feature request :))

    As someone of a similar background, I can tell you I totally understand where you're coming from. There's an element of discomfort, at least for me, when it comes to ceding control of something I'm used to managing myself. I had a really hard time letting iTunes organize my music at first! In the end, it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the time I used to sink into doing it all by hand (with folders, of course!)

    But I had a somewhat easier time accepting this with my 1Password Account. Maybe part of that comes from when I learned to "let go and let iTunes". But I know that a huge incentive for me is what I learned from losing data in the past due to inadequate backup strategies. That may seem counterintuitive, but if we're honest with ourselves, the odds that an entire redundant server infrastructure and its offsite backups will fail completely are vanishingly small compared to the modest personal backup strategy I have today. Hardware files, and as a consumer I have a lot less robust equipment and systems in place. I use offsite and local backup, but all of this depends on me making sure it's working in the first place, and that I'm not just backing up corrupt data. Frankly, I don't have time to be as diligent as I'd like. But 1Password.com does, so I at least don't need to worry about losing my most important data.

    However, it's certainly reasonable to make a personal backup periodically, and one way you can do this is copying the data to a local vault on a USB drive. This is probably similar to what you're doing anyway with some of your other data, to send it off somewhere safe monthly or weekly. And in a pinch, a local 1Password vault can be used with any of the apps completely offline. :sunglasses:

    Thanks again for the response. I'll keep evaluating it both for myself and potentially my firm.

    Likewise, I hope this helps. And we really appreciate you taking the time to look at 1Password and ask these questions. Be sure to let us know if you have any more! :)

  • Thanks @brenty. I don't see an option to have a local vault. I am using the latest version on the Mac OS X (Sierra). I may be missing it somehow, but I just don't see the option of creating a local vault, or even accessing one. I know it can access the vault(s) create online without internet access because I tested it, but just don't see an option to create a local vault.
    I totally get the automatic backups idea. I use several cloud-based services, and for most folks it is a better idea than to rely on them remembering to make backups in the first place. I'm just probably one of the exceptions -- I have redundant and off-site backups of even my personal data. Occupational hazard I guess :chuffed:

  • Drew_AGDrew_AG 1Password Alumni

    Hi @juanra,

    I'm sorry it's not clear how to add a local vault! That option isn't shown when the app is in "accounts-only mode", but you can enable it by going to 1Password > Preferences > Advanced and turning on the option for "Allow creation of vaults outside of 1Password accounts". That will create a local "Primary" vault which is separate from your account. If you want to create more local vaults, you can now do it by going to 1Password > New Vault from the menubar. You can find the sync settings for local vaults by going to 1Password > Preferences > Sync (those sync settings will only appear if you have at least one local vault).

    Please let us know if you have more questions about that! :)

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