First-Run Experience not so good

heubergenheubergen
edited April 2017 in Windows Beta

I decided to try 1Password Personal Account again after purchase and using 1Password 4 and the Apps for a long time.
I created my 1Password Personal Account on my iPhone and the registration setup was fine, I vertified and created my account without any issues.

  • But then, after I moved my data to 1Password Account Cloud and selected delete my old files the app crashed. But that's okay, it's Beta so that's fine. But when I opened the app again, I was not asked to try again to remove my old vaults and I needed to do that on my own.
  • Then I searched for the windows installation and downloaded it. After starting the setup just by double-click it, the installer tried to install 1Password not in C:\Program Files, but in some folder from my own account. Certainly it missing the admin rights, but it also never requested it.
  • As I already tried 1Password 6 in the past, some old vaults where stored on my computer and I was welcomed with the password-type-in-screen without have a chance to switch it a other vaults :(
  • After removing the old vaults manually I could finally see the Welcome Screen with the fields I need to type in my information. The first one was the URL of my 1password account. But which URL? I never used ony before and I have no idea which one I should use. 1Password 6 suggest that I should type in my username, an other thing I never created before and so I was confused. (I used now my.1password.com)
  • 1Password 6 give me also the option to use a QR Code, unfortunately I didn't find any QR Code anywhere so I'm not sure how to use it.
  • Then I needed to type in my Secret Code. But where is it? I never heard from this either in the sign-up process. After som researching I found out that it was saved on my 1Password Vaults on my iPhone so I could read it there.
  • Now I tried to include beta update into the auto update functions and I need to type in my email address (and probaly my password) manually. Couldn't that be fill up by 1Password self? :)

1Password Version: 6.x
Extension Version: -
OS Version: Win10
Sync Type: 1Password

Comments

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @heubergen,

    Thanks for reporting your experience here, we really appreciate it! We're sorry that it wasn't a smooth as it should be and we are improving it in each update.

    But then, after I moved my data to 1Password Account Cloud and selected delete my old files the app crashed. But that's okay, it's Beta so that's fine. But when I opened the app again, I was not asked to try again to remove my old vaults and I needed to do that on my own.

    When you said you've deleted the old files, which files do you mean?

    After starting the setup just by double-click it, the installer tried to install 1Password not in C:\Program Files, but in some folder from my own account. Certainly it missing the admin rights, but it also never requested it.

    That's intentional, no admin right is required anymore for 1Password 6 and the reason is because we're writing into your local account folder. Microsoft wants to move toward this method rather than reusing the system-wide Program Files that would require admin rights.

    This would mean you can install 1Password 6 on a work computer where you may not have admin rights.

    As I already tried 1Password 6 in the past, some old vaults where stored on my computer and I was welcomed with the password-type-in-screen without have a chance to switch it a other vaults :(

    Intentional since you can reinstall or switch between stable/betas without affecting your 1Password data. Your 1Password data is stored elsewhere, away from the program files.

    After removing the old vaults manually I could finally see the Welcome Screen with the fields I need to type in my information. The first one was the URL of my 1password account. But which URL? I never used ony before and I have no idea which one I should use. 1Password 6 suggest that I should type in my username, an other thing I never created before and so I was confused. (I used now my.1password.com)

    It should've been in your starter item when you create the new account but we do see where you are coming from and we will try to clarify this better.

    Normally, we'd recommend signing up for a new 1Password account on the desktop, you can see how it works here (including QR codes): https://support.1password.com/1password-setup/

    1Password 6 give me also the option to use a QR Code, unfortunately I didn't find any QR Code anywhere so I'm not sure how to use it.

    On the desktop, you can find it in your Get the apps page when you sign into your 1Password account on https://my.1Password.com/apps. Click on your account name on top right to select Get the apps, the QR code is on the right side.

    Then I needed to type in my Secret Code. But where is it? I never heard from this either in the sign-up process. After som researching I found out that it was saved on my 1Password Vaults on my iPhone so I could read it there.

    That is on us completely. Our entire sign-up flow originally required you to sign up on the computer with the web browser and when we've switched to supporting the account signup on the mobile devices, it became confusing.

    When you sign up on the desktop, the website describes the process and ask you to print out the emergency kit with the URL, Secret Key and so on that you need to remember. We need to evaluate our sign-up flow again on the mobile devices.

    Now I tried to include beta update into the auto update functions and I need to type in my email address (and probaly my password) manually. Couldn't that be fill up by 1Password self? :)

    Do you mean if there's an existing HockeyApp.net account in your 1Password database? That is an interesting idea but we try not to automate anything that involves your private data.

    Note this is not related to your 1Password.com account, HockeyApp is a separate third party service we use to distribute beta builds to registered users. That's why we don't fill anything in there automatically.

  • heubergenheubergen
    edited April 2017

    Hi @MikeT

    Thanks for responding to my feedback, I really appreciate that!

    When you said you've deleted the old files, which files do you mean?

    I meant the logins/data from my iCloud Sync.

    That's intentional, no admin right is required anymore for 1Password 6 and the reason is because we're writing into your local account folder. Microsoft wants to move toward this method rather than reusing the system-wide Program Files that would require admin rights.

    I understand your thoughts about this. I think I see sometimes a option (e.g. a checkbox) where I can choose in the first step of the installation if I want to install the programm in C:\Program Files (with Admin rights) or not. (in other programms) I think this would be a possible option. For example something like this: http://multicommander.com/res/img/doc/InstallModes.png

    Intentional since you can reinstall or switch between stable/betas without affecting your 1Password data. Your 1Password data is stored elsewhere, away from the program files.

    I understand that, but I think it would be good for a first time experience if the user could add a new vault maybe?

    Normally, we'd recommend signing up for a new 1Password account on the desktop, you can see how it works here (including QR codes): https://support.1password.com/1password-setup/

    We live in a mobile world where more and more customers will use an app as a start for every service there using, so there desktop is just a second or third device and not there primary.

    Click on your account name on top right to select Get the apps, the QR code is on the right side.

    Again, nerver saw this on the iOS app :)

    Note this is not related to your 1Password.com account, HockeyApp is a separate third party service we use to distribute beta builds to registered users. That's why we don't fill anything in there automatically.

    I'm aware of the differences, maybe you could add a 1password icon as we see it in many iOS apps today?

  • Hi @MikeT

    Thanks for responding to my feedback, I really appreciate that!

    When you said you've deleted the old files, which files do you mean?

    I meant the logins/data from my iCloud Sync.

    That's intentional, no admin right is required anymore for 1Password 6 and the reason is because we're writing into your local account folder. Microsoft wants to move toward this method rather than reusing the system-wide Program Files that would require admin rights.

    I understand your thoughts about this. I think I see sometimes a option (e.g. a checkbox) where I can choose in the first step of the installation if I want to install the programm in C:\Program Files (with Admin rights) or not. (in other programms) I think this would be a possible option. For example something like this: http://multicommander.com/res/img/doc/InstallModes.png

    Intentional since you can reinstall or switch between stable/betas without affecting your 1Password data. Your 1Password data is stored elsewhere, away from the program files.

    I understand that, but I think it would be good for a first time experience if the user could add a new vault maybe?

    Normally, we'd recommend signing up for a new 1Password account on the desktop, you can see how it works here (including QR codes): https://support.1password.com/1password-setup/

    We live in a mobile world where more and more customers will use an app as a start for every service there using, so there desktop is just a second or third device and not there primary.

    Click on your account name on top right to select Get the apps, the QR code is on the right side.

    Again, nerver saw this on the iOS app :)

    Note this is not related to your 1Password.com account, HockeyApp is a separate third party service we use to distribute beta builds to registered users. That's why we don't fill anything in there automatically.

    I'm aware of the differences, maybe you could add a 1password icon as we see it in many iOS apps today?

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @heubergen,

    I meant the logins/data from my iCloud Sync.

    Was this in the iOS app? 1Password 6 on Windows doesn't support iCloud Sync, so I'm wondering if you can give us more details, so we can look into fixing this.

    I understand your thoughts about this. I think I see sometimes a option (e.g. a checkbox) where I can choose in the first step of the installation if I want to install the programm in C:\Program Files (with Admin rights) or not. (in other programms) I think this would be a possible option. For example something like this: http://multicommander.com/res/img/doc/InstallModes.png

    Unfortunately, we've had this before and it was just causing too many problems, so we had to remove it. It is not just about admin rights but stability. At the moment, we have no plans to bring this back as we have zero issues by having this simplified setup so far and we're focusing on completing more features in 1Password 6 for the moment.

    We definitely will reevaluate this later.

    I understand that, but I think it would be good for a first time experience if the user could add a new vault maybe?

    I absolutely agree, which is why when we detect no database on the drive, it looks like this:

    The issue is detecting if you're a first time user or just wants to start over, it's hard. The difficulty is if we add an option to start over, you'd be seeing this all the time on the lock screen. We could try to add complex logic to detect the age or last time the database use but it is not always accurate. Given the number of people that has this issue over the past decade, it is a very small edge case. We have a support article for starting over.

    This isn't to say we can't improve it, we absolutely can and nothing is set in stone here. Right now, it's just prioritizing the features all users want now versus a small number of users having this issue. On the other hand, we risk losing new customers if we don't improve this. We'll definitely review the process soon and see if we can improve or have a better idea.

    We live in a mobile world where more and more customers will use an app as a start for every service there using, so there desktop is just a second or third device and not there primary.

    I agree, which is why we're making changes right now to support mobile devices first but you're one of the first to start doing it. We've only started in the last few months. We're constantly improving and iterating 1Password but man, technology do change quickly for the developers. Next thing you know, users may start a new account via Siri or HoloLens.

    I'm aware of the differences, maybe you could add a 1password icon as we see it in many iOS apps today?

    That's an awesome suggestion. The reason we haven't done so is because we want to move away from Hockeyapp and start handling betas directly, so you don't need to register anymore. You'd just click to enable betas and you're done, it'll be far more simplified.

  • Was this in the iOS app? 1Password 6 on Windows doesn't support iCloud Sync, so I'm wondering if you can give us more details, so we can look into fixing this.

    Hi @MikeT, yeah I started my experience with my iOS-App.

    We'll definitely review the process soon and see if we can improve or have a better idea.

    From the technial side one suggestion would be to create a empty temporary file which will be removed when the user starts 1Password6 the first time.

    We've only started in the last few months. We're constantly improving and iterating 1Password but man, technology do change quickly for the developers.

    Glad to hear that :)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @heubergen,

    From the technial side one suggestion would be to create a empty temporary file which will be removed when the user starts 1Password6 the first time.

    But how do we know if the user is starting for the first time? No first time user would have an existing database file on their drive.

  • heubergenheubergen
    edited April 2017

    Hi @MikeT

    But how do we know if the user is starting for the first time? No first time user would have an existing database file on their drive.

    First the installer creates a file named First_Run in the 1Password directory by the installation.
    Now at every start of 1Password6 the program check if there's a file named C:\Program Files\1password\First_Run.
    If yes: Detect if there's a existing database(, remove the First_Run file) and then show a screen where the user can decide to either use the old database or starting over. If there's no old database you just show the welcome-screen.
    If no: 1Password deteced with the logic from now if there's a database or not.

    Hope my way of looking at this is even possible and logical for you :)

  • Of course you would not created the file if the user you UPGRADE 1Password6 :)

  • MikeTMikeT Agile Samurai

    Team Member

    Hi @heubergen,

    That would work except we don't have a separate installer/updater, it's the same installer. That means we would have to add another layer of logic rules for updating apps; if the user has an existing app, do not create the file and proceed with installing. Given how fragile installers are for us, we rather not complicate it further.

    We'll look at it down the line.

    Thanks for working through this with us.

  • Hi @MikeT

    Thanks for responding to my feedback, I really appreciate that!

    When you said you've deleted the old files, which files do you mean?

    I meant the logins/data from my iCloud Sync.

    That's intentional, no admin right is required anymore for 1Password 6 and the reason is because we're writing into your local account folder. Microsoft wants to move toward this method rather than reusing the system-wide Program Files that would require admin rights.

    I understand your thoughts about this. I think I see sometimes a option (e.g. a checkbox) where I can choose in the first step of the installation if I want to install the programm in C:\Program Files (with Admin rights) or not. (in other programms) I think this would be a possible option. For example something like this: http://multicommander.com/res/img/doc/InstallModes.png

    Intentional since you can reinstall or switch between stable/betas without affecting your 1Password data. Your 1Password data is stored elsewhere, away from the program files.

    I understand that, but I think it would be good for a first time experience if the user could add a new vault maybe?

    Normally, we'd recommend signing up for a new 1Password account on the desktop, you can see how it works here (including QR codes): https://support.1password.com/1password-setup/

    We live in a mobile world where more and more customers will use an app as a start for every service there using, so there desktop is just a second or third device and not there primary.

    Click on your account name on top right to select Get the apps, the QR code is on the right side.

    Again, nerver saw this on the iOS app :)

    Note this is not related to your 1Password.com account, HockeyApp is a separate third party service we use to distribute beta builds to registered users. That's why we don't fill anything in there automatically.

    I'm aware of the differences, maybe you could add a 1password icon as we see it in many iOS apps today?

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Thanks for responding to my feedback, I really appreciate that!

    @heubergen: Likewise, on behalf of Mike and the rest of the team, thanks for offering it! :chuffed:

    I understand your thoughts about this. I think I see sometimes a option (e.g. a checkbox) where I can choose in the first step of the installation if I want to install the programm in C:\Program Files (with Admin rights) or not. (in other programms) I think this would be a possible option. For example something like this:

    The vast majority of the feedback we've received was to simplify this so it can be installed in multiple user accounts on a machine. I'm not sure we want to present an option like that since most users won't understand the implications and the installer we're using doesn't support this as a result, but we'll be exploring different options in the future once all of the app's features are finished.

    I understand that, but I think it would be good for a first time experience if the user could add a new vault maybe?
    We live in a mobile world where more and more customers will use an app as a start for every service there using, so there desktop is just a second or third device and not there primary.

    You're absolutely right. That's why we've made it possible to signup for a 1Password.com membership during the setup process in 1Password for iOS. And in time we'd like to make it possible to do most (if not all) administrative functions within the app, without having to go to a web browser.

    Click on your account name on top right to select Get the apps, the QR code is on the right side.

    Again, nerver saw this on the iOS app :)

    You can also access your account information in the app on any authorized device under Preferences/Settings > Accounts. Does that help?

    I'm aware of the differences, maybe you could add a 1password icon as we see it in many iOS apps today?

    Sorry for the confusion! While we offer a 1Password extension for iOS, it isn't something we can build into other apps ourselves. Their developers will need to add support for it. Otherwise it is necessary to copy and paste login credentials. Otherwise, the 1Password extension can often be used to fill logins in the browser.

    I hope this helps. Be sure to let us know if you have any other questions! :)

  • Hi @brenty

    I'm very sorry but this was a duplicate post from above. This was because I got banned from posting more stuff after I tried to edit a previous post sometime.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited April 2017

    @heubergen: Ha! Sorry about that. No need to apologize. Not your fault, after all. Thanks for letting me know. :lol:

This discussion has been closed.