Syncing problem

Hi,

I rund 1Password on several devices, OSX 10.12.4, iOS and Windows10.
The strange thing is that when searching in OSX and iOS I get 1 result, but in Windows10 I get 2 results for the same search term.
Actually the item was moved from a Dropbox synced vault to a 1Password family vault. Windows10 finds a result both in Dropbox and in the 1Password vault, the other 2 apps don't.
Now this is not a simple matter of having to wait for the syncing of Dropbox to complete: the move from the one vault to the other was done many, many online hours ago, my guess is at least 2 weeks.

On both computers, Dropbox indicates with green signs that the files are up to date.

Any clue what is going on?

OSX version: 6.6.4 (664001).


1Password Version: 6.5.401d
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10 Pro, vs 1607, build 14393.1066
Sync Type: Dropbox

Comments

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    Hi there @HalfBekend,

    Thank you for taking time to contact us! Let's try to find out what is going on.

    1Password 6 for Windows does not support local vaults at the moment, so it doesn't sync your Dropbox vault automatically. It seems that you see an old version of your Dropbox vault there. If you already migrated your data to a family account, I would recommend you to remove your Dropbox vault from 1Password 6 (Settings > Accounts&Vaults > Folder/1Password > Remove). This will remove your local vault from All Vaults view and you will not see the duplicates. Please let me know if it works.

    The manual syncing for local vaults in Dropbox in the previous versions were added specifically for migrating your local vaults into 1Password.com account without having to install the Dropbox client first.

    I hope it helps. If I am off the mark here, please let me know and we will investigate further. Thank you!

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • Hello Greg,

    It seems to be an explanation but I am completely lost though.
    For Dropbox the syncing was automatic and never manual as Dropbox took care of the syncing.

    Furthermore I am surprised at the least. God knows how many changes I made in the Windows version. I literally have hundreds of items in 1Password and there are almost daily changes. I actually run the Windows version on 3 devices. I was not aware that this would not be synced anymore. I would really have appreciated to have been warned in advance if this is true.
    Also, as discussed in another thread actually the advised and best strategy is to have a personal vault in Dropbox and one on the AgileBits servers. Is AgileBits no longer going for this optimal strategy?

    Is there any way of sorting out the differences between the Dropbox vault on each of the Windows devices with the Dropbox version maintained between my OSX and iOS devices? Any changes based on dates maybe? Any manual syncing command probable so that 1Password works out the differences and at least transports the newest versions to the Dropbox version maintained in the OSX environment?

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    @HalfBekend, thank you for your reply! I am sorry for the confusion.

    The thing is that in 1Password 6 for Windows Dropbox vaults were supported in read-only mode, so you should not have been able to edit items in your local vault synced via Dropbox. The manual syncing for vaults in Dropbox in the previous versions were added specifically for migrating your local vaults into 1Password.com account without having to install the Dropbox client first.

    It means that your current setup might be more complicated than I thought. That is why I'd like you to create siagnostics Reports from your Mac and Windows PC, where you are using 1Password. Here is how you can do that:

    Sending Diagnostics Reports (Mac)

    Sending Diagnostics Reports (Windows)

    Attach the Diagnostics Reports to an email message addressed to [email protected].

    Please do not post your Diagnostic Reports in the forums, but please do include a link to this thread in your email, along with your forum handle so that we can "connect the dots" when we see your reports in our inbox.

    You should receive an automated reply from our BitBot assistant with a Support ID number. Please post that number here so we can track down the report and ensure that this issue is dealt with quickly. :)

    Thank you very much in advance! I will be looking forward to your email.

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • edited May 2017

    Hi Greg,

    I appreciate your support. I have created the reports, but have not sent them yet. I have had a look trough the data and actually it worries me a bit if I see how much and what kind of information I would send. The whole point of 1Password is safety after all and AgileBits having zero knowledge. Could you comment on that?

    To give you an idea about my paranoia ;) : I always like to think that if someone is after your accounts, safety is only achieved via passwords if you use "usual" login names such as your name. Hence, in many occasions I use "password like" (a.k.a. automatically generated) login names so that even the login names are not easy to guess.

    I am also thinking the other way around: suppose your statement is right and I have not been able to make changes in the Dropbox synced vaults. This could be so: in use I do not care where a password is stored, only when creating a new record.
    In that case,

    • the changes I made in the Windows versions are in the AgileBits synced vaults only;
    • the changes I have made to the Dropbox synced vaults on OSX or iOS devices have been synced (at least amongst themselves);
    • the changes I have made to the AgileBits synced vaults on OSX or iOS devices have been synced to all devices.
      Hence, if I move all remaining records in the Dropbox synced vaults to AgileBits synced vaults on an OSX device and delete the Dropbox synced vaults (on all platforms OSX, Windows, iOS), I will have a set of vaults that is synced again.
      I will lose the history data that was in the Dropbox vaults.
      Also, the preferred strategy (see https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/290458#Comment_290458 ) can no longer be followed. This is a shame as I was very happy with it and it took me quite a while to convince a number of people to start using 1Password and use this strategy.

    There is one more thing that bugs me: if the Dropbox synced vaults were not synced on the Windows versions, which version of those vaults were shown to me up so far? Dropbox doesn't know how I use the vaults, so 1Password can only read the synced vaults on Dropbox. Did 1Password make copies of the Dropbox vaults and store them somewhere? If it didn't, it at least meant that 1Password gave me up to date passwords from Dropbox synced vaults as far as changed on my OSX or iOS devices?

    There is another issue: at a certain point in time the was a discussion about the format of the vaults changing from the key-chain structure to something else. I didn't have the time to sort out what to do (I remember I needed to follow a procedure of steps to upgrade), so I never did. Can this have to do something with the current problems? How can I know if the vaults that are AgileBits synced have the new structure?

  • Thinking about the proposal to move and and then delete the records on an OSX device, that should not work assuming the 1Password for Windows still reads updated Dropbox synced vaults and in that case it should have been removed from the Dropbox synced vaults and I should not have seen the problem I initially reported.

  • GregGreg

    Team Member

    Hello @HalfBekend,

    Thank you for getting back to me! I do apologise this hasn't been an easy issue to resolve but we will continue working with you until you are all set.

    I appreciate your support. I have created the reports, but have not sent them yet. I have had a look trough the data and actually it worries me a bit if I see how much and what kind of information I would send. The whole point of 1Password is safety after all and AgileBits having zero knowledge. Could you comment on that?

    Indeed, we have zero knowledge of the contents of your vaults. A diagnostics report gives us some metadata of your current setup, so we could understand the issue. 1Password respects your privacy, so we never use the information in diagnostics reports for anything other than diagnosing issues you contact us about. You can learn more about 1Password and your privacy here.

    Hence, if I move all remaining records in the Dropbox synced vaults to AgileBits synced vaults on an OSX device and delete the Dropbox synced vaults (on all platforms OSX, Windows, iOS), I will have a set of vaults that is synced again. I will lose the history data that was in the Dropbox vaults. Also, the preferred strategy (see https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/290458#Comment_290458 ) can no longer be followed. This is a shame as I was very happy with it and it took me quite a while to convince a number of people to start using 1Password and use this strategy.

    If you want to keep a local copy of your data, you can export it out of 1Password 6 and your 1Password account and import it into a local vault in 1Password 4. However, joggling all of this info with different vault types and apps can easily become very confusing, so we do not recommend doing so. What we recommend is to use different vaults in your 1Password account. You can also print out your Emergency Kit and keep it in a secure place, so, if the emergency happens, the executor or a family member will get access to your account.

    There is one more thing that bugs me: if the Dropbox synced vaults were not synced on the Windows versions, which version of those vaults were shown to me up so far? Dropbox doesn't know how I use the vaults, so 1Password can only read the synced vaults on Dropbox. Did 1Password make copies of the Dropbox vaults and store them somewhere? If it didn't, it at least meant that 1Password gave me up to date passwords from Dropbox synced vaults as far as changed on my OSX or iOS devices?

    My initial hunch about outdated Dropbox vault in 1Password 6 may be incorrect. That is why I requested a diagnostics report from your device, so we could take a closer look. Without it, it's hard to say what might be going wrong and how we might right it. I hope for your understanding.

    There is another issue: at a certain point in time the was a discussion about the format of the vaults changing from the key-chain structure to something else. I didn't have the time to sort out what to do (I remember I needed to follow a procedure of steps to upgrade), so I never did. Can this have to do something with the current problems? How can I know if the vaults that are AgileBits synced have the new structure?

    If you are using a subscription-based 1Password.com account, you don't have to worry about the format of your local vault, since you don't have one. In this case your encrypted vaults are stored on our servers.

    Please let me know if I was able to answer your question about diagnostics reports. They would be very helpful, if you shared them. Thank you very much in advance!

    Cheers,
    Greg

  • edited May 2017

    Hi Greg,

    support ID is [#XMS-28225-431] for diagnostics report on Win10dev1.

    In the mean time (after creating the report) I have experimented a bit. Below are my notes.

    Created record in OSX version in Dropbox synced vault
    Does not appear in Windows10 version on 1st Windows 10 device W10dev1
    Closed and restarted Windows10 version. Still not found.
    Checked Dropbox: up to date on W10dev 1 and OSX device.
    Rebooted Windows10 device

    Deleted Dropbox vault in 1Password6 on W10dev1 and added again.
    Now, the new record that was created in OSX version appears in Windows10 version as well.

    Checked other record: same version in OSX, W10dev 1 and a second Windows10 device (W10 dev 2)
    newly created record not available on W10dev2
    Checked Dropbox on W10dev 2: up to date
    Rebooted W10dev2
    Newly created record not found.

    Moved all records from Dropbox vault to AgileBits vault on OSX device.
    Reboot Win10dev1.
    Dropbox vault in Win10dev1 stil contains records.
    Removed Dropbox vault in 1Password on Wind10dev1 and added again.
    Dropbox vault now empty except for the trash.

  • brentybrenty

    Team Member

    Hi Greg, support ID is [#XMS-28225-431] for diagnostics report on Win10dev1.

    @HalfBekend: Thanks! I see that we've received your email, so we'll take a look at the diagnostics and get back to you there shortly! But I also wanted to respond to some of your comments here, in case it helps all of us get on the same page:

    In the mean time (after creating the report) I have experimented a bit. Below are my notes.

    Created record in OSX version in Dropbox synced vault
    Does not appear in Windows10 version on 1st Windows 10 device W10dev1
    Closed and restarted Windows10 version. Still not found.
    Checked Dropbox: up to date on W10dev 1 and OSX device.
    Rebooted Windows10 device

    Deleted Dropbox vault in 1Password6 on W10dev1 and added again.
    Now, the new record that was created in OSX version appears in Windows10 version as well.

    I'm really glad for the detail you provided here! This is what I thought was going on, but it's good to be able to confirm it. As Greg mentioned, 1Password 6 does not write to local vaults and similarly does not sync changes from them. They're read when imported, so that the data can be copied to a vault in your 1Password.com account. That's why when you make changes to the vault on another device you only see them if you reload the vault.

    Checked other record: same version in OSX, W10dev 1 and a second Windows10 device (W10 dev 2)
    newly created record not available on W10dev2
    Checked Dropbox on W10dev 2: up to date
    Rebooted W10dev2
    Newly created record not found.

    Moved all records from Dropbox vault to AgileBits vault on OSX device.
    Reboot Win10dev1.
    Dropbox vault in Win10dev1 stil contains records.
    Removed Dropbox vault in 1Password on Wind10dev1 and added again.
    Dropbox vault now empty except for the trash.

    This is what I'd expect. We'll take a look at the diagnostics just in case, but it sounds like the mystery may have been solved. Is all of the data in your 1Password.com account sync'd fully between all of your devices? Let me know what you find!

    ref: XMS-28225-431

This discussion has been closed.