1P7: bugs, UI problems, usablility

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1P4Me
1P4Me
Community Member
in Mac

Hi!

So I've just upgraded my stand-alone 1P version to v7.
Here's what I've noticed in the first couple of hours of using 1P7:

  • as mentioned elsewhere here, the vertical padding between items in the left(most) pane (subentries of categories, tags etc.) is maybe a bit too large or should al least be adjustable by users, esp. if screen space is scarce (MacBooks). Some users like me wouldn't mind to trade vertical padding for more displayed items.

  • Custom ordering: in some places it is impossible to drag items up/down to arrange them in a custom order to your liking. That concerns most notably at the highest level the main categories themselves (watchtower, categories, tags, smart folders) but also attachments and other (sub)sections of items. That's bad.

  • Annoying things happening when switching between vaults:

    • 1P7 does not remember the last selected main category (e.g. tags or smart folders) and always selects all items by default.
    • Also, smart folders collapse every single time you switch between vaults. Very annoying. In 1P6 the collapsing bug was never truly fixed but at least it remembered which main category was selected last time you used your vault.

  • Empty main categories like Secure Notes, Credit Cards & Identities cannot be deleted/hidden. Why not hide them as long as they don't contain any items? It works for other categories. Talking about wasted screen space...

  • Sometimes you may want to hide information (=displayed as dots) other than passwords. So far the only way to do that is to mark that field as a password field. Unfortunately, that means you have a lot more entries in "weak passwords". Couldn't you just add a field like "hidden text" to the dropdown list for text fields?

  • more consistent internet connection behaviour (stand-alone version): if you disable "search for updates" and "rich icons" you would probably expect that 1P7 has no reason to establish any internet connections unless you told it to (some sync). However, even though, when I start up my mac I get a internet connection request right away probably caused by the 1P-Mini starting at login. I would actually prefer to not have any internet connection unless there's a very good reason for it or I initiated it myself (sync).

  • need for enhanced smart folder criteria: since there are no more static folders, smart folders need to be able to handle more sorting. Example: you have 60 items tagged as "XY", among them logins, passwords, bank accounts, secure notes and some other categories. Now you want a smart folder that shows everything tagged as XY but no logins and no secure notes. How do you do that at present?
    Smart folders need filter options like "is not a login item", not just at the very top. OR you turn the top dropdown list at the very top into a list where you can check multiple items. But I'd prefer the filter option.

As a longtime user (since before v3) I know some bugs will be fixed and some - despite all the talk - will never be addressed at all.
Yes, I'm disappointed right now: the many bugs/usability issues outweigh the alleged new features by far. Sometimes it really is all about those little things that disrupt your workflow.
But of course, there's still hope because sometimes you guys actually listen and release amazing updates. That's what I'm counting on.
Thank you.

1Password Version: 7.0
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.13.4
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
    Options

    about the internet connection behaviour: I see that you have separated the 1Password Updater from the main app. Very good. That allows for workarounds.
    I'm really looking forward to the next couple of updates hoping those will fix what's happening when switching vaults and hopefully bring enhanced smart folder capabilities, custom ordering etc.
    Now, that I get the app + updates directly from you instead of the MAS it should be faster too. Great news then. :)

  • Jacob
    Jacob
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    Hey @1P4Me! Thanks for the feedback. I'll quote some parts of your post below so we can go over things one at a time.

    Custom ordering: in some places it is impossible to drag items up/down to arrange them in a custom order to your liking. That concerns most notably at the highest level the main categories themselves (watchtower, categories, tags, smart folders) but also attachments and other (sub)sections of items. That's bad.

    Is this regarding custom fields and sections, or items themselves?

    1P7 does not remember the last selected main category (e.g. tags or smart folders) and always selects all items by default.

    Indeed, this works as designed. After a bit of feedback during the beta, we found that people preferred All Items when they switched vaults, so it defaults to that.

    Also, smart folders collapse every single time you switch between vaults. Very annoying. In 1P6 the collapsing bug was never truly fixed but at least it remembered which main category was selected last time you used your vault.

    This should be fixed in 1Password 7.0.2, which was just released. :)

    Empty main categories like Secure Notes, Credit Cards & Identities cannot be deleted/hidden. Why not hide them as long as they don't contain any items? It works for other categories. Talking about wasted screen space...

    If there are no items in them, they should be hidden by default. Are you seeing them in the main 1Password window or in 1Password mini?

    Sometimes you may want to hide information (=displayed as dots) other than passwords. So far the only way to do that is to mark that field as a password field. Unfortunately, that means you have a lot more entries in "weak passwords". Couldn't you just add a field like "hidden text" to the dropdown list for text fields?

    The only way to do this right now is using a password field, which is concealed. For other types of fields, it's best to only view them in an environment where you feel that looking at them is safe.

    need for enhanced smart folder criteria: since there are no more static folders, smart folders need to be able to handle more sorting. Example: you have 60 items tagged as "XY", among them logins, passwords, bank accounts, secure notes and some other categories. Now you want a smart folder that shows everything tagged as XY but no logins and no secure notes. How do you do that at present?

    Smart folders need filter options like "is not a login item", not just at the very top. OR you turn the top dropdown list at the very top into a list where you can check multiple items. But I'd prefer the filter option.

    Smart folders are still in the same state that they were with 1Password 6. We're looking at some improvements for how they work down the road though. :)

    Hope version 7.0.2 improves lots of things for you, and let us know if you have some other questions!

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
    edited May 2018
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    empty main categories not hidden in 1P main window

    Empty main categories like Secure Notes, Credit Cards & Identities cannot be deleted/hidden. Why not hide them as long as they don't contain any items? It works for other categories. Talking about wasted screen space...

    If there are no items in them, they should be hidden by default. Are you seeing them in the main 1Password window or in 1Password mini?

    Only in the 1Password main window. The mini windows hides all empty categories (as it should)
    .

    smart folder problems

    More importantly, I do have problems with smart folders in 1Password 7, now that static folders are no longer available. Maybe you can help me:

    1. how do I create a smart folder that shows all items in a vault that haven't been tagged yet?

    2. How do I create a single smart folder that shows everything tagged as XY except logins and secure notes?

    3. What does the smart folder filter "Folder = is/is not" mean? You can't specify a folder and you can only choose between "folder is" or "folder is not". Is it a forgotten relict from version 6? If not, how do I use it now that there are no more static folders?

    Now that static folders are gone I think smart folder filtering will need to become more powerful if you want to keep things managable with large databases
    .

    custom ordering

    Custom ordering: in some places it is impossible to drag items up/down to arrange them in a custom order to your liking. That concerns most notably at the highest level the main categories themselves (watchtower, categories, tags, smart folders) but also attachments and other (sub)sections of items. That's bad.

    Is this regarding custom fields and sections, or items themselves?

    This concerns the main categories in the leftmost column/pane (watchtower, categories, tags, smart folder) but also within items entire subsections and (file) attachments. I know that you can drag custom fields around but you can't do that with main categories in the leftmost pane nor with entire sections or attachments within items.

    hidden text field

    Sometimes you may want to hide information (=displayed as dots) other than passwords. So far the only way to do that is to mark that field as a password field. Unfortunately, that means you have a lot more entries in "weak passwords". Couldn't you just add a field like "hidden text" to the dropdown list for text fields?

    The only way to do this right now is using a password field, which is concealed. For other types of fields, it's best to only view them in an environment where you feel that looking at them is safe.

    I know. But in a "safe" environment there would be no need to hide passwords either, and yet we have a hidden password field option. :) Maybe you could just add this "hidden text but no password" option to the wishlist.

    moving items between vaults

    One more thing, when I move an item from one vault to another, why is this item moved to the trash in the source vault instead of being deleted in the source vault right away? I think the default behaviour used to be like that some versions ago but changed at some point. Not so fond of taking out the trash all the time... :)

    Thanks for your help.

  • Jacob
    Jacob
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    @1P4Me Which categories are you seeing in the main 1Password window that you don't have any items in? You mentioned a few in your first post but I want to make sure we have a full list. There are a few that are defaults, like Logins, Secure Notes, Credit Cards, and Identities. Those will always be shown.

    More importantly, I do have problems with smart folders in 1Password 7, now that static folders are no longer available. Maybe you can help me:

    how do I create a smart folder that shows all items in a vault that haven't been tagged yet?

    How do I create a single smart folder that shows everything tagged as XY except logins and secure notes?

    You can create any type of smart folder by clicking File > New Smart Folder. Then give it some parameters. For the items that haven't been tagged, change the Title parameter to Tag, then add is after that and leave the last field blank, which would be "tag is nothing". For ones that are tagged as XY except Logins and Secure Notes, use "tag is" like before but change the Search at the top to the specific category you want to target – it can't be more than one so you will need multiple searches if you want to do that.

    What does the smart folder filter "Folder = is/is not" mean? You can't specify a folder and you can only choose between "folder is" or "folder is not". Is it a forgotten relict from version 6? If not, how do I use it now that there are no more static folders?

    It's similar to the other filters in smart folders. You can filter by whether it is in a folder or is not. But yes, it'd be a relic since folders are not in 1Password 7.

    This concerns the main categories in the leftmost column/pane (watchtower, categories, tags, smart folder) but also within items entire subsections and (file) attachments. I know that you can drag custom fields around but you can't do that with main categories in the leftmost pane nor with entire sections or attachments within items.

    Indeed, and that's not something we're working on right now. We'll keep it in mind though.

    One more thing, when I move an item from one vault to another, why is this item moved to the trash in the source vault instead of being deleted in the source vault right away? I think the default behaviour used to be like that some versions ago but changed at some point. Not so fond of taking out the trash all the time... :)

    Because the item is copied to the other vault and moved to the Trash in the current one. That means if something happens to it on the way – your other vault doesn't sync properly or something like that – you have a backup copy of the item.

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
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    empty categories "Secure Notes", "Credit Cards", and "Identities" can't be hidden

    Which categories are you seeing in the main 1Password window that you don't have any items in? ... There are a few that are defaults, like Logins, Secure Notes, Credit Cards, and Identities. Those will always be shown.

    I was only referring to those 4 categories. I have various vaults without any item in Secure Note, Identity or Credit Card.
    How many credit cards or identities can you reasonably have across all vaults to justify these category to be shown permanently in every vault???

    I would really appreciate at last some kind of setting to hide empty Credit Cards and Identities categories, maybe even Secure Notes.
    Also, this behaviour is quite inconsistent: 1P mini hides empty categories while the main window does not?
    .

    smart folder problems

    For the items that haven't been tagged, change the Title parameter to Tag, then add is after that and leave the last field blank, which would be "tag is nothing".

    I failed to mention this but I had tried this before posting here. And it didn't work: the smart folder doesn't show any entries even if there are untagged items.

    For ones that are tagged as XY except Logins and Secure Notes, use "tag is" like before but change the Search at the top to the specific category you want to target – it can't be more than one so you will need multiple searches if you want to do that.

    That's unnessarily "complicated", no? As I said, it would be easier (and probably not very difficult) to add a filter called kind with options like "Login Item", "Secure Note", etc.
    I would think that's a very basic thing smart folders are capable of in most (other) apps. Think iTunes, Finder... you name it.
    Since static folders are gone, a kind filter should definitely be added. Please.
    .

    credit card info

    I've found that sites use different date formats: some use 01/2020 and some use 01/20.
    So yesterday, autofilling credit card information didn't fill the date because it expected 01/20 and I'm guessing 1P was looking for/trying to fill in 01/2020. I hope you can fix this.
    .

    2 new main window problems

    Since a couple of days the 1P main window forgets its size and position. I have to move & resize the main window whenever I open it. (FYI my 1P is set to lock on closing the main window.)

    Also, when I edit something (like a smart folder), sometimes I can try to change the vault all I want (with keyboard short cut or UI)
    but the vault contents won't change, only the name and icon of the vault at the top change.

    Thank you for your help.

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
    edited June 2018
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    2 new main window problems
    Since a couple of days the 1P main window forgets its size and position. I have to move & resize the main window whenever I open it. (FYI my 1P is set to lock on closing the main window.)
    Also, when I edit something (like a smart folder), sometimes I can try to change the vault all I want (with keyboard short cut or UI) but the vault contents won't change, only the name and icon of the vault at the top change.

    Seem like the vault changing problem was fixed in 7.0.4. Maybe the resize/position problem as well. Otherwise, I'll report back.

    But still no luck trying to create a smart folder for all untagged items (as described above). Would be so helpful.

  • Ben
    Ben
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    In most cases 1Password will handle the credit card date issue gracefully and do what you expect. But there are some sites out there that do things in an odd or unexpected way. If you run across one please let us know the URL to the page in question.

    Thanks for the feedback on the other points. Things we can consider for the future.

    Ben

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
    edited July 2018
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    In most cases 1Password will handle the credit card date issue gracefully and do what you expect. But there are some sites out there that do things in an odd or unexpected way. If you run across one please let us know the URL to the page in question.

    I think it happened at norwegian.com.

    And could you PLEASE fix the smart folder problem I mentioned. Am I alone on this one? Can't you reproduce this?
    Create a new vault, create two secure notes, one with a tag and the other one without a tag.
    Then create a smart folder for all items where tag is empty. Nothing shows up here.
    With static folders gone smart folders have to become, er, well smarter, but at least they have to work. >_<

    As for the mentioned UI inconsistencies ('unhidable' categories...), OK, I give up.

  • 1P4Me
    1P4Me
    Community Member
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    P.S. Also I still have this problem that sometimes the 1P main window forgets its size and position and on the next start of the 1P main window it has shrunk (presumably to a tiny default size) and repositioned itself to the center of my screen. I don't know what triggers this behavior but it sure is annoying. Hope you can squash this bug too. Thank you.

  • Ben
    Ben
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    Thanks for the feedback on these issues. We’ll continue to investigate.

    Ben

This discussion has been closed.