Feedback: The new Mac browser fill window is freakin' enormous.

abatty
abatty
Community Member

This is just some feedback on the big (enormous) change made to browser filling on the Mac since v7:

That window is abusively large.

Yes, I can make it smaller, but it's still a giant window that is essentially the entire 1P application interface, but in dark mode. I can't figure out what the benefit is, especially since the Windows client still makes a nice, clean little dropdown in the browser window. As it is now, it occludes the page I'm looking at, and offers a bunch of things I'll never want or need in a browser, whereas it used to be a quick list of logins, with the option of switching to identities or credit cards, etc. I find it much more unwieldy to interact with, and it requires me to read carefully to find what I'm looking for.

Any chance of you guys changing it back, or making an option to? It don't think it was even like that in most of the betas of 7...


1Password Version: 7.0.6
Extension Version: 4.7.2.90
OS Version: 10.12.6
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @abatty: We don't have any plans to revert to the old version, but we're very much open to feedback. I'm curious though, why do you need to see the webpage when opening 1Password mini? You can still get your logins quickly using ⌘ \ to fill or ⌘ ⌥ \ to just view mini, but if there's a specific action you're having trouble doing definitely let us know. :)

  • abatty
    abatty
    Community Member

    I don't quite understand your question; sorry. Why shouldn't I see the page I'm trying to fill something in? In fact, I think that's exactly the issue I have with the Mac behavior: I don't want to think about 1Password at all. It shouldn't come up in a big square in the middle of the screen unless I've actually started the application. It should just be there like a helpful little gnome or pixie or leprechaun or what-have-you.

    The new behavior essentially offers me everything 1Password does, rather than what I need right then. It's taking a leading role when it's supposed to be in support. The old behavior, which is still how it is on Windows, was smoother. I don't need half my screen (yes, I know that's an exaggeration, but it sure feels like it) taken up by my password manager when really all I need is one or two passwords listed for the domain I'm on.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @abatty: If you press ⌘ \ and have only a single login item matching the current URL, you won't see 1Password at all; it will just fill (because it doesn't have to present you with a list to choose from). :)

  • abatty
    abatty
    Community Member

    ...Except that doesn't happen very often with me, where I have about 10 different logins for various servers and services at work...

    Which brings me to the next issue that only seems to affect the Mac version: It has started, once again, to ignore the subdomain and offer me every login for my workplace, rather than the 2 (usually user and admin) for the server in question. I had that problem years ago, and then it got much better, but with 7 I'm back to being offered a long list of logins. It was fine until the new giant window showed up in the betas, actually, so I suspect something important changed under the hood there.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    ...Except that doesn't happen very often with me, where I have about 10 different logins for various servers and services at work...

    @abatty: I hear you. Though my personal stuff is a bit simpler, it's the same way for me with work stuff. :)

    However, since most users aren't us, and most people use 1Password almost exclusively through mini, in the browser, we've intentionally made it more powerful in version 7 so that everyone can have quick access not only to logins and other items for filling, but also the rest of their data, for editing as well. And personally, while I didn't much care one way or the other at first, I find myself using the new editing convenience to make quick changes often, rather than having to open the main app. We're continuing to refine the design, but we won't be doing so at the expense of the additional functionality that we've added there, as that's proven very useful to folks.

    Which brings me to the next issue that only seems to affect the Mac version: It has started, once again, to ignore the subdomain and offer me every login for my workplace, rather than the 2 (usually user and admin) for the server in question. I had that problem years ago, and then it got much better, but with 7 I'm back to being offered a long list of logins. It was fine until the new giant window showed up in the betas, actually, so I suspect something important changed under the hood there.

    Indeed, the intention was to remove the "Allow filling on pages that closely match saved websites" preference because for the vast majority of cases all it did was create confusion and as best we could tell was of little use. We do firmly believe its removal is an improvement but we are open to learning where it has been useful.

    All we've done is remove the ability to ignore the subdomain where present. Instead the default behaviour in 1Password will be the only behaviour. We will list perfect matches to the FQDN (Fully Qualified Domain Name) first and then approximate matches, that only match the registered domain name, second. 1Password has always allowed us as the users to fill with any Login item that matches at least the registered domain name although it does typically hide them behind a click with the Show XXXX more items menu option.

    Personally, the only time I'd ever referenced the option is when users asked directly what it did, or to explain why users aren't finding the exact match at the top and to instruct the user to disable the option, returning 1Password to the default behaviour. Enabling it would often lead the precise match to be hidden amongst closely matching items.

    However, 1Password has never cared about subdomains for purposes of filling. It will only use them for purposes of prioritizing best matches. Others for the domain are still matches since for the vast majority of users and the vast majority of login scenarios, 1Password not offering to fill a login for a domain on a subdomain is a problem. For example, appleid.apple.com, www.apple.com, itunes.apple.com — 1Password should try to fill a login for apple.com in any of these cases. That hasn't changed.

    Anyway, that's probably more than you bargained for, but hopefully that helps to clarify how it works. :)

  • abatty
    abatty
    Community Member

    Not to belabor the point (okay, I'm lying; I'm totally belaboring it), but:

    However, since most users aren't us

    Most users only need a login for Gmail and Facebook.

    Most users are fine with Chrome, Safari, or Firefox integrated password syncing.

    Most users don't actually have hundreds of logins. Most users just forget their passwords and either retrieve them or make new accounts. Most users are beyond help, and most users can't be persuaded to use a password manager; believe me, I try.

    But that's neither here nor there; thank you for your detailed reply, as usual.

  • nancyagee
    nancyagee
    Community Member

    Count me in as another one of "us..." I agree with @abatty.

    The version 7 window in the browser is TOO big, too complicated, and provides way too much information when all I want to do is fill in the login info on the webpage and move on with what I'm doing.

    I am a longtime user of 1Password, (since before version 3, at least). A number of years ago, I set up 1Password for my elderly father so that he could move on from writing his passwords on a notebook (or worse, on post it notes!). If I had started him with version 7, I can guarantee that he would not have been able to figure out how to use that complicated window. As it is, I have OTHER elderly relatives that use Macs, and I am now very reluctant to recommend 1Password to them. What was once simple and easy has now become complicated.

    Please ask your developers to consider a preference setting or some other way reduce the amount of information shown on the browser window. As it stands, while I can deal with the changes in the upgrade, I am actually contemplating reverting back to version 6 - version 7 is NOT an improvement for me.

  • abatty
    abatty
    Community Member

    @nancyagee

    Indeed; thank you.

    It's just way too much information. I've been using 1P for about 10 years now. It's one of the first things I bought when I came back to the Mac, so it must have been 2007 or 2008.

    I'm overjoyed with v7 on Windows because it allows me to have the real interface while doing local/Dropbox syncing (I think I'll transition to a subscription after my business trips this summer—can't risk messing something up while I'm stuck in another country), but on the Mac... Well, I was already overjoyed. Now I'm underjoyed.

    I have a similar observation as you. I have been through enough iterations of this product that I know all the things it does (well, actually, that's not true, because it does tons of stuff these days), but when I'm pleading with my parents (in their 70s) or my colleagues (mostly in their 60s—retired nurses teaching university nursing) to use a password manager, it's important that I show them that it's easy.

    With the old interface, if the selection window showed up, it was a small dropdown from the browser toolbar, making it very clear what the context was. It had 2 or 3 things in it, with buttons on the side to switch to things like password generation, identities, and credit cards. It was easy to navigate without really even looking. With the new one, this giant thing that looks exactly like the full application comes up and I have to read a bunch.

    Why on earth would I ever need "Wireless Routers," for example, every time I want to log into my Moodle server? Or passports? Or driver's licenses?

    Here is what I need when I'm browsing:

    • Logins
    • Identities
    • Credit cards
    • Passwords/password generator

    That's it. All the other stuff is a distraction 99.999% of the time if I'm browsing.

    @brenty

    Seriously, dude, this is not great UI/UX design. —From a company whom I think normally knocks that out of the park.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Not to belabor the point (okay, I'm lying; I'm totally belaboring it), but:

    @abatty: Hey, no problem. :)

    Most users only need a login for Gmail and Facebook.

    I think that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I see your point. :)

    Most users are fine with Chrome, Safari, or Firefox integrated password syncing.

    in my experience while a ton of people use these things for "password management", most aren't aware of it, and very few sync. The one exception being Safari, since Apple's integrated iCloud into their OSes. Users get that "for free" just by signing into their Apple ID. But it's hardly intuitive. We get a lot of refugees from even that because it's relatively opaque. Other browsers place a large burden on the user to manage this, starting with having to install them in the first place, and sign up for an account if they want to sync their settings.

    Most users don't actually have hundreds of logins.

    Agreed 100%.

    Most users just forget their passwords and either retrieve them or make new accounts.

    Yep, password resets, etc.

    Most users are beyond help, and most users can't be persuaded to use a password manager; believe me, I try.

    I think you're right that most people don't use password managers (at least not actively), but I disagree that we can't help these people. We've made a lot of progress bringing 1Password to more people, and we're not alone in this space. There's good competition. Unfortunately the main reason for that is website breaches are now not only frequent, but also reported in mainstream news. It's good in that it spreads awareness about online security, but the impact on real people's lives is a high price to pay. :(

    But that's neither here nor there; thank you for your detailed reply, as usual.

    You're very welcome! And this stuff is interesting to think about and, I'd say, important as well given the security landscape. I think we still need to do more. Thank you for bringing this up! :)

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Count me in as another one of "us..." I agree with @abatty.

    @nancyagee: Thanks for weighing in! :)

    The version 7 window in the browser is TOO big, too complicated, and provides way too much information when all I want to do is fill in the login info on the webpage and move on with what I'm doing.

    I hear you. And most of the time, that's just what I do. Have you tried the keyboard shortcut? ⌘ \ will just fill for you in most cases, so you can login and get stuff done. :)

    I am a longtime user of 1Password, (since before version 3, at least). A number of years ago, I set up 1Password for my elderly father so that he could move on from writing his passwords on a notebook (or worse, on post it notes!). If I had started him with version 7, I can guarantee that he would not have been able to figure out how to use that complicated window. As it is, I have OTHER elderly relatives that use Macs, and I am now very reluctant to recommend 1Password to them. What was once simple and easy has now become complicated.

    I'm sorry to hear that. We'll continue refining it to hopefully make it more comfortable for folks without giving up the benefits, as exposing more functionality in 1Password mini enables more people to get more out of 1Password.

    Please ask your developers to consider a preference setting or some other way reduce the amount of information shown on the browser window. As it stands, while I can deal with the changes in the upgrade, I am actually contemplating reverting back to version 6 - version 7 is NOT an improvement for me.

    Thank you for your honest feedback! I guess the question I have is this: Do you feel that the main 1Password window is too complicated too? What is the specific information you're seeing in 1Password mini that is "too much", and you wish we'd remove it? I don't believe we've really added anything except the "Suggested Items" tab; everything else there — the categories, matching logins, etc. have been there for years. The one other thing is that Tags is now at the bottom of the categories in 1Password mini, rather than being a separate menu. Let me know what you think!

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    With the old interface, if the selection window showed up, it was a small dropdown from the browser toolbar, making it very clear what the context was. It had 2 or 3 things in it, with buttons on the side to switch to things like password generation, identities, and credit cards. It was easy to navigate without really even looking. With the new one, this giant thing that looks exactly like the full application comes up and I have to read a bunch.

    @abatty: 1Password mini definitely doesn't looks exactly like the main 1Password window, though we have tried to make them more consistent.

    Why on earth would I ever need "Wireless Routers," for example, every time I want to log into my Moodle server? Or passports? Or driver's licenses?

    Most categories were there previously, just hidden under "show n more". Having all of them displayed without having to select that has been a popular request for a long time. Most (all?) Mac displays easily accommodate a dozen or so categories in that list, after all. Passports...I and many others often need to enter our passport information when making travel arrangements, so it's nice to have it be a bit more accessible. If you don't happen to need yours, you don't have to open it. You're right that Wireless Routers is new in 1Password mini. We've allowed everything to be shown there (without a defaults.write Terminal command) since that's something we've been asked for time and time again, and more specifically because 1Password mini isn't quite confined the the browser anymore. It can already identify many apps and suggest items you might want to use with them.

    Here is what I need when I'm browsing:
    Logins
    Identities
    Credit cards
    Passwords/password generator
    That's it. All the other stuff is a distraction 99.999% of the time if I'm browsing.

    Those are all at the top of the list. You don't have to scroll down if you don't need/want to view the rest.

    Seriously, dude, this is not great UI/UX design. —From a company whom I think normally knocks that out of the park.

    Based on your examples, I'm just not seeing what the harm is. Certainly 1Password mini is larger now, and has all categories displayed by default instead of hidden in menus, or in the main app. I'm guessing there may be other scenarios which you didn't mention here already though, so please let us know as they arise so we can can them into account as we continue developing future versions.

    These are things we've been considering for years, much to the frustration of all of the people asking for quicker access to more of their 1Password data. But it really required a redesign in order to make it happen, which is why this is happening now. I'm sorry that this doesn't feel like a welcome change to you, but we can't please everyone all of the time. Saying no to all of those people for years felt bad to them too, just as us saying we're not going to revert these changes now does to you. But we'll keep working to refine the new design and find the best balance we can. Thanks for taking the time to share your preferences with us, otherwise we would never be aware of them!

  • nancyagee
    nancyagee
    Community Member

    I have no problems with the version 7 upgrades to the main app. In fact, I can and do open the main app if I NEED any information that is not on the browser window.

    The keyboard shortcut doesn't work for me because all that the shortcut does is open the browser window, which is what we've been discussing in the first place!

    It would go a long way towards making things cleaner if I could just get rid of the "sidebar" thing (or at least hide it) on the browser window. As I said, it just complicates everything.

    I suspect that part of the problem is that I may be what might be categorized as a "power user." ( I assume that @abatty also falls into the same category.) I have over 700 items in just one vault (and I have OTHER vaults besides the main one). Over the years, I have even added notes to 1Password with things that I want to remember, including where I've physically put something in the house! It serves no purpose for me to look at, or even have access to, all 700+ items when all that I want to do is log in to a webpage. I know that @brenty has said to just ignore all the other 699+ items, but why cloud it up in the first place?

    So far, I have not updated to version 7 on my office Mac. When I got to work this morning, I found version 6 to be a breath of fresh air.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    I have no problems with the version 7 upgrades to the main app. In fact, I can and do open the main app if I NEED any information that is not on the browser window.

    @nancyagee: Thanks for saying so! I'm glad that you're enjoying the main 1Password window's new design. :)

    The keyboard shortcut doesn't work for me because all that the shortcut does is open the browser window, which is what we've been discussing in the first place!

    I'm not sure I follow. If you're at a login page for a website for which you have a Login saved in 1Password and press ⌘ \, that should have 1Password fill your login credentials. If you're experiencing something else, please let me know the specifics.

    It would go a long way towards making things cleaner if I could just get rid of the "sidebar" thing (or at least hide it) on the browser window. As I said, it just complicates everything.

    Thank you for letting us know! I'm not sure we'll be removing the sidebar, but perhaps we can make it so that it can be made smaller in a future version. It's good to know what you're looking for.

    I suspect that part of the problem is that I may be what might be categorized as a "power user." ( I assume that @abatty also falls into the same category.) I have over 700 items in just one vault (and I have OTHER vaults besides the main one). Over the years, I have even added notes to 1Password with things that I want to remember, including where I've physically put something in the house! It serves no purpose for me to look at, or even have access to, all 700+ items when all that I want to do is log in to a webpage. I know that @brenty has said to just ignore all the other 699+ items, but why cloud it up in the first place?

    I don't see where I said anything about ignoring. Honestly, I've got way more items than that and I know a lot of others here do as well. As you can imagine, many of us have been using 1Password for a very long time! I wouldn't want to and don't expect anyone else to scroll through all their items. Rather, that's why 1Password has a search feature, and why we designed 1Password to match Logins to websites (and other things). Have you tried searching for what you need? With hundred of items, that can save you a lot of time.

    So far, I have not updated to version 7 on my office Mac. When I got to work this morning, I found version 6 to be a breath of fresh air.

    I cna't promise we'll do exactly the things you want, but we'll keep working to improve 1Password 7 to make it more pleasant for you to use. And in time I suspect you'll become more accustomed to it as well. We received similar feedback for pretty much every major release, and we always ended up meeting users in the middle over time with refinements to the design. The exception was 5-6, since very little changed design-wise between those. But man, we got almost identical feedback with the 3-4 transition, since we exposed more functionality in 1Password mini there too. So we'll keep working to find the right balance. ;)

  • abatty
    abatty
    Community Member

    Based on your examples, I'm just not seeing what the harm is.

    And that seems to be the problem.

    Okay, one of the things I research is attention to visual stimuli, and here's what I can tell you about it: People get hit with all that information whether they want it or not. By providing more information, you're not actually helping people find things; you're requiring them to sift through more stimuli to find the signal.

    Have you sat users down with an eye tracker to see how they visually interact with the new UI? I'd be shocked if you did not observe scanning and even very short fixations on every line of that new interface (although even if you didn't, that information is likely still being perceived parafoveally). That's not what you want, however, in a tool that people really only want for one or two things, generally. You want to see that scanpath either shoot directly to the line they want, or, even better, such a short saccade to it that you barely even detect it, which would indicate automaticity.

    (So I just outed myself as looking at this from a cognitive processing standpoint, which may indeed bias me.)

    But if you haven't done eye-tracking on the new UI yet, I think it would be a fruitful line of inquiry.

    As for the desire of users to have more information in 1Password Mini... Do those users not understand that it's 1Password Mini? If they want everything, cmd-space 1 enter, Bam. 1Password is open.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    That's not what you want, however, in a tool that people really only want for one or two things, generally. You want to see that scanpath either shoot directly to the line they want, or, even better, such a short saccade to it that you barely even detect it, which would indicate automaticity. (So I just outed myself as looking at this from a cognitive processing standpoint, which may indeed bias me.)

    @abatty: Hey, thank you for taking the time to elaborate! I still disagree that this is doing harm to people, but you're totally right that there's a tradeoff with having more information. But is the design itself is problematic, or are people doing more scanning just because it's changed? I don't think either of us can answer that definitively, but it really makes a difference, in my opinion: if the former, then this will be an ongoing struggle for some people; if the latter, they'll acclimate in time. I think that's why it's so important that we get feedback from 1Password users so we can not only gauge that over time, but make adjustments if necessary.

    We're not closing the door on changes; we just don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction to some negative feedback about a change, as that happens no matter what we do. For example, when 1Password 4 was released we got a LOT of negative feedback about the new "mini" design in the browser...but of course this is essentially the design you and a few others are asking us to go back to now! Ironically, 1Password 3's browser UI was bigger than 4 (though slightly smaller than 7) and, ironically, 4 displayed more information. We just don't get negative feedback about that now-old design that was once so controversial.

    As for the desire of users to have more information in 1Password Mini... Do those users not understand that it's 1Password Mini? If they want everything, cmd-space 1 enter, Bam. 1Password is open.

    Is it the user's job to understand this? I don't know. But I can tell you that most don't view it that way. Some are grateful for cool tips like this (I LOVE it!), but most people just stick with what they're used to. And for most people that means 1Password in the browser, A.K.A. 1Password mini, is 1Password to them.

    The irony of all of this is not lost on me though. :)

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