On WLAN Sync in 1Password 7

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Comments

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    Thank you for the answer. I just want to stress again. I am not married to the WLAN server idea. Any solution that you can come up with that will allow me to sync offline with IOS I would be happy with. (and yes I am aware of their restrictions that make your job very hard)

    @UanPassw0rd: I understand completely. I didn't mean to suggest that you're not willing to consider alternatives, just trying to take into consideration the overall situation of all those affected. I'd personally love to see us go a different route, perhaps finding a solution that fills the need for folks wanting a local sync solution on Windows that also benefits other use cases. There's just no shortage of other things we need to work on, so we'd need to come up with something truly compelling to make it worth pursuing. And iOS is one complication.

  • Jul
    Jul
    Community Member
    edited July 2018

    Sorry guys but you look like politics who just empty talk and encourage people to express themselves without taking their opinion in consideration. You don't worth your community, seriously.

    So for those, as me, who are tired about this double-talk language from the 1Password team, here is one solution :
    https://keepass.info/

    This is free, open-source, secured AND FULL LOCAL (if you want) password keeper solution. And this support Onedrive, Dropbox and other clouds solutions if you want use them.
    You can sync with whatever you want, nobody will consider you like stupid because of that.

    Ciao !

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @Jul: No need to be rude. No "double-talk": 1Password 7 doesn't have a WLAN Server feature. I don't think anyone is confused or disputing that. You're certainly welcome to use something else if you prefer. Take care. :)

  • Jul
    Jul
    Community Member

    Yeah I imagine that when somebody speaks true and without hypocrisy, you guys call this « rude ». Seriously stop cry, this is ridiculous.
    Say whatever you want : you decided to stop the local sync feature, and even if i think it’s wrong decision I can understand it.
    But here is your big stupid mistake : instead of just let it go, you put hope on people that maybe, WLAN will be back, that you listen them, etc.
    Of course you make contrary : luring people, make them believe in a fake hope and for months you give your propaganda soup hoping that they will finally thank you for this feature removal.

    If you just announced the WLAN removal without playing this hypocritical comedy, I would just go out from 1Password but with nice opinion on your company and products.
    Instead of that you make me disappointed and angry. And believe me I’m not the only person you annoyed. And because of that, instead of just leave in silence, I’m now spreading the word about how unreliable you are, that stay in 1Password is dangerous for personal data.

    Your mistake is to think that your users are stupid AND to show it. You just forget that you have something to eat in your plates thanks to us. You win champions !

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited July 2018

    @Jul: Please review the forum guidelines before posting again:

    https://discussions.agilebits.com/home/termsofservice

    Not only is name calling and insults against the terms you agreed to, it's unconstructive and childish. I'm sorry that you're annoyed, but that doesn't excuse bad behaviour. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, you're welcome to do so. But if you cannot do so in a civil manner, you can go somewhere else. There are plenty of other places on the internet where that sort of thing is accepted. This isn't one of them.

    This is a technical support forum for a software product. If you don't want to use it, that's fine; you don't have to. But we need to keep this place free of destructive influence for the wide variety of people who come here seeking assistance. Thanks for understanding.

  • Jul
    Jul
    Community Member
    edited July 2018

    ÉDIT : I first answered to you. Finally my previous post doesn’t need any complement.

  • rgiaquinta
    rgiaquinta
    Community Member

    I never enjoy when a newer version of software removes functionality that a previous version had, so I am disappointed by the removal of WLAN sync. However, I have found a successful windows<->android workaround using Goodsync. You'll need to use the Android 1Password version 7 beta, though, because v6 will not properly open a vault on your android device. I'm pretty happy with this solution, though I hope that 1Password will reinstate wifi sync.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited July 2018

    @rgiaquinta: I'm glad to hear that works for you! I'm looking forward to 1Password for Android version 7 (with full OPVault support) being available to everyone, hopefully soon. :)

  • lutz
    lutz
    Community Member

    Bad to read that the WLAN Sync is missing :( (If I have know it before, i havnt updated)
    But i like the version :+1: and will use them now.

    Is there any way to bring all passcards from windows to my iphone? (a single sync per month is enough)
    It will also be ok, to delete all on the iphone and replace with the windows items. (i will make no changes on the iphone)

    Is there any workaround to get a periodic sync? (lokal, no cloud)

    thanks so far, Basti

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @lutz - if you're asking about Windows <---> iOS, then there is no officially supported option, no. There eventually will be between Android and Windows because Android allows for a local file sync option that iOS just doesn't have. That means, on the specific iOS-to-Windows route, there is no local sync option. If you're passionate about WLAN sync, I'd recommend signing up for the WLAN sync newsletter that's in the first post in this thread.

  • crkinard
    crkinard
    Community Member
    edited August 2018

    Just posting back in here to see if anything has progressed... and nothing has happened.

    Reading the OP I just want to say this:

    --- It's hard to use
    No. It is not. Not to mention it is on YOU to make it easy to use.

    -- It's a nightmare to support
    You added the feature in the first place.

    -- It does not provide the kinds of security that people may imagine it does
    It is not 100% a 'security' reason some people use it. Like me I can not use iCloud (I have a iPhone and all Windows machines) and I do not use Drop Box (I use One Drive). While every other app out there seems to support all the major cloud services you still ONLY support Drop Box on iOS. I guess they are filling your pockets.

    So yeah. Guess I am sticking with good old version 4. Gotta love it when you FINALLY release a new version on Windows after ignoring it for years and remove features.

  • kermit4karate
    kermit4karate
    Community Member

    @crkinard I feel your pain, which is why I've been using keepass for a couple months as my personal pw manager after using it in professional environments for years. No big complaints so far. Just know that the migration path from 1Password to keepass is kludgy...which IMO is the barrier to entry Agilebits tacitly relies upon that discourages more people from migrating away.

    By "kludgy," I mean that I wasn't able to successfully export the contents of the custom fields I created in my vault from 1Password, then import them into keepass. The contents of the default fields (i.e. usename, password, URL, notes) exported fine, but my custom named fields didn't, which meant in my case that I had to copy/paste the contents of some item fields directly from 1Password into the corresponding records in the new keepass file, but that only took about an hour, and it only had to be done once. Well worth it in the end.

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @crkinard - thanks for weighing in. Dropbox isn't "filling our pockets"; we don't have any kind of deal/sponsorship/arrangement with them. We still think Dropbox is a pretty cool syncing service, and they were our first truly cross-platform way to sync 1Password data. But with the proliferation of other services all competing to do the same thing - OneDrive, Google Drive and many others, each with its own API calls/limitations/idiosyncracies, we decided that instead of chasing an expanding market of 3rd party sync services, we'd spend our time and developer-cycles instead on doing things the right way by creating our own sync/storage service, which is 1password.com. And that's what we've done. We now have an end-to-end solution that allows us to do much more than we can do with any 3rd party's API. If you're looking for the most stable and easy-to-use way to use 1Password, a 1password.com membership is definitely the way to go. And it also includes all of our 1Password apps including all future upgrades for as long as you maintain the membership, so you can always have the most-recent version on every device you use, no matter the platform. No licenses to buy, manage, upgrade. Just install and get back to your own work.

    I can't really recommend sticking with version 4 as a long-term solution, as it's been a legacy product for some time now and will receive no further development attention. It's up to you, of course, and we rarely say "never" to things around here due to how often the landscape shifts, but I think I can say definitively from the vantage point of today that we won't be looking to add further cloud service APIs/support into 1Password on any platform. Since you mention it above, I want to make sure I'm as clear as possible so we're not stringing you along in the hope you'll see something we didn't intend to develop. There are indeed other solutions out there that claim to support all sorts of 3rd party cloud sync services; if that's all you're looking for, I'm sure you can find one that suits your purposes. Just as long as you're using something for password management, that's the most important thing. :)

  • Lars
    Lars
    1Password Alumni

    @kermit4karate - I'm glad you've found password management happiness, but a little surprised you're still returning to/reading our boards if that's the case. :)

    Just know that the migration path from 1Password to keepass is kludgy...which IMO is the barrier to entry Agilebits tacitly relies upon that discourages more people from migrating away.

    This is simply not accurate. I'm sorry you had issues with your own migration, but the .1pif (1Password interchange format) is the most robust and best-documented export format I'm aware of in this space and has been for years. We took the time to develop it in part because we don't want captive, unhappy customers. We mean it when we say "your data is yours," and making it impossible or difficult and error-prone for users to take their data to another provider or even an Excel spreadsheet if they choose runs contrary to that idea. That's why every major password manager I'm aware of touts their ability to import from 1Password easily -- because we wrote a robust export format that makes the task of mapping to their own internal structure easy.

    Stay safe out there. :)

  • kermit4karate
    kermit4karate
    Community Member

    This is simply not accurate. I'm sorry you had issues with your own migration, but the .1pif (1Password interchange format) is the most robust and best-documented export format I'm aware of >

    @Lars Sorry. Wasn't my experience at all. The .1pif exports from 1Password4 did not include the contents of my special fields, or at least didn't include them in any way that I could successfully import the exported files into any of the three competing password managers I tried...and please don't blame that on the developers of those other products (because that wouldn't make sense).

    Agilebits also has very poor documentation in this regard. Perhaps understandably, the company has clearly spent little time and effort creating and updating documentation to help 1Password4 users migrate their data to competing products. Just something for people to keep in mind as they use more of the product's features and dig themselves deeper.

    But since the goal of this thread is to help people, then I'm available to anyone who has further questions about the migration process I used from 1Password4 to keepass. Just ask. I'll do my best to answer until/unless someone blocks my account.

  • jpgoldberg
    jpgoldberg
    1Password Alumni

    1pif is showing its age. At the time it was developed, it fully matched and handled anything that could be in the data, but that was before we added certain customizations. 1pif also doesn't deal well with how Documents and Related Items work. So we have been working on 1pif2. We actually do have that "working", but we haven't built a reader or importer for it yet, so it isn't really useful at this point.

    But the accusation that 1pif is designed to discourage migration just doesn't hold up. Please compare 1pif, warts and all, with the exporters you will find in other password managers. There is a reason why other systems' "import from 1Password" work so much better than our "import from ".

    And @kermit4karate, if you genuinely believe that we are that evil, why are you even bothering to talk to us?

  • kermit4karate
    kermit4karate
    Community Member
    edited August 2018

    "... the accusation that 1pif is designed to discourage migration just doesn't hold up.">

    @jpgoldberg I never said that. I said "...migration path from 1Password to keepass is kludgy...which IMO is the barrier to entry Agilebits tacitly relies upon that discourages more people from migrating away."

    1. I said that the migration process is "kludgy," which you basically corroborated by describing the issues with 1pif. And yeah, I agree with you. There were big issues with 1pif when I tried to use it. Basically, it didn't work. I'm glad you're making improvements.

    2. "Evil" is your word. I said that I think you've (AgileBits has) tacitly relied upon a kludgy data migration process because it's a barrier to entry for people who might otherwise migrate away from the product. I do believe that, but I don't think it's because you're evil. At worst I just disagree with the logic in many of the responses left by you and @brenty and @Lars, in particular, throughout this thread where you characterize WLAN sync as a niche feature that most of your customers don't want.

    Because I don't think you can know that if this forum and your account closures/cancellations/refund requests from 1Password7 are how you expect to find out. I think you allowed development on 1pif and your migration docs to fall behind because it wasn't a high priority, and that's not evil. It's a business decision. But I can still call you out on it because it's a business decision that bugged me, and if I'd found a thread like this beforehand where someone had pointed that out, it would have saved me the time I spent trying to get 1pif to work.

  • jpgoldberg
    jpgoldberg
    1Password Alumni

    Thank you @kermit4karate for your explanation. I was reacting to the clause after "kludgy".

    ...which IMO is the barrier to entry Agilebits tacitly relies upon that discourages more people from migrating away.

    But I should have given more weight to "tacitly".

  • Airon
    Airon
    Community Member

    Hello everybody,

    I've been using 1Password since version 4 and have recently updated to version 7. Now Wlan Sync does not work and I wonder how a software that guarantees absolute data security can only offer a cloud solution for a sync of the password safe.
    In the cloud, the vendors' administrators have access to the data and if you really want to, you can crack a 1Password safe in a certain amount of time and with enough computing power. In the past it has been shown that cloud data can and will be compromised. The very fact that you offer these cloud solutions as a sync option I already see critically.

    Thus, the 1Password solution is useless if used on multiple devices and does not comply with the advertised high security standards. To put this problem in a to doo queue and to prioritize other functions I find absolutely pointless. It is a key function of safety and it needs to be solved immediately.

    I am a developer myself and can not understand this procedure.

    Otherwise I find 1Password super and there is no alternative for me. Nevertheless, there are other alternatives and as in the forum contribute to see how 1Password employees to offer users without a solution to the competition, or at least encourage this, I think as an entrepreneur unprofessional and not customer friendly.

    I have a question for you how many entries do you have so far to integrate the WLAN Sync function? I ask for a statistic on your part.

    Many Thanks !

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    I've been using 1Password since version 4 and have recently updated to version 7. Now Wlan Sync does not work and I wonder how a software that guarantees absolute data security can only offer a cloud solution for a sync of the password safe.

    @Airon: We don't guarantee "absolutely security", and anyone who does should not be trusted. On the contrary, security is a process. "Absolute security" would mean that 1Password (or some other product) could protect your data even if you use a weak Master Password, install malware on your device, etc. The reality is that 1Password is only as strong as your Master Password. But that's not such a bad thing. That gives you control over your data by selecting a long, strong, unique Master Password that only you know...

    In the cloud, the vendors' administrators have access to the data and if you really want to, you can crack a 1Password safe in a certain amount of time and with enough computing power. In the past it has been shown that cloud data can and will be compromised. The very fact that you offer these cloud solutions as a sync option I already see critically.

    ..and since no "cloud administrators" know your Master Password (only you do), your data cannot be decrypted without your Master Password even if someone else steals it from a server somewhere. With 1Password.com accounts, the (128-bit, randomly-generated) Secret Key is also used to encrypt the data, so that's a whole other level of security, such that a brute force attack cannot be performed against your Master Password in that scenario — quite the contrary to what you're saying. And we're still waiting for someone to crack a three-word password, which is weaker than what we recommend for 1Password.com accounts, and weaker still than a Secret Key.

    Thus, the 1Password solution is useless if used on multiple devices and does not comply with the advertised high security standards. To put this problem in a to doo queue and to prioritize other functions I find absolutely pointless. It is a key function of safety and it needs to be solved immediately. I am a developer myself and can not understand this procedure.
    Otherwise I find 1Password super and there is no alternative for me. Nevertheless, there are other alternatives and as in the forum contribute to see how 1Password employees to offer users without a solution to the competition, or at least encourage this, I think as an entrepreneur unprofessional and not customer friendly.

    Unfortunately anything we work on means not working on, many, many other things; and as it stands, this is not something that even a large minority of users have requested. As a developer yourself, I can't imagine you prioritize work for a small minority of your users everyone else.

    I have a question for you how many entries do you have so far to integrate the WLAN Sync function? I ask for a statistic on your part.

    As Goldberg already mentioned, we're not going to release numbers. But it's a fraction of a percentage of the 1Password userbase. You're welcome to guess though.

  • Airon
    Airon
    Community Member

    Hello everybody,

    first thank you for your detailed answer!

    Yes, I can imagine that many are just unaware of what a major security risk this represents.

    As I said before, it's not so easy to crack a 1Password Safe right now, but what about 5 years or 10 years? possibly at the time when there are quantum computers who knows ...

    I (as a developer) wants my and all my customers passwords only on the devices on which I use it and can make the security arrangements themselves.

    An outsourcing on a third provider is absolutely critical.

    I'm sorry if I take you a little too close, but my guess is that you want to prioritize your own cloud solution by subscription.

    Ok, as a businessman, I can understand you here, but why do not you offer them as a subscription to your software? I would be prepared to pay annually but only incl. WLAN Sync.

    Why are the statistics not published? Whether your statement is true with 1% can not be reconstructed. I'm considering an independent query to start and post this here in the forum, is that okay for you?

    greetings
    Airon

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    As I said before, it's not so easy to crack a 1Password Safe right now, but what about 5 years or 10 years? possibly at the time when there are quantum computers who knows ...

    @Airon: You're absolutely right. In a decade certainly technology will have progressed to the point where computational work that takes a long time today will probably require much less. That's something we're very much aware of, and have built into 1Password's design from the beginning. Otherwise any of us who started using 1Password in 2007 would have to live in fear of someone getting ahold of our data. But that's not the case. 1Password uses PBKDF2 to make brute force attacks exponentially more costly, and we've continued to increase the difficulty over time. We've also introduced automatic calibration, so that 1Password will take roughly the same amount of time to unlock even if you upgrade to a more powerful system, and will use the additional computational power to its advantage to make each guess harder for an attacker.

    Ok, as a businessman, I can understand you here, but why do not you offer them as a subscription to your software? I would be prepared to pay annually but only incl. WLAN Sync.

    Thanks for letting us know it's a feature you'd be willing to pay for.

    Why are the statistics not published?

    I think there may be come misunderstanding. There are no "statistics". As discussed here previously, we don't collect user data. The number of people signed up for the newsletter is how we're gauging interest. You're welcome to read Goldberg's comments about why we haven't released the actual number. But they're surprisingly low and won't help the case you're trying to build anyway.

    Whether your statement is true with 1% can not be reconstructed. I'm considering an independent query to start and post this here in the forum, is that okay for you?

    I'm not sure what you're asking, but you can get a pretty good sense of the interest by looking at the small number of people who have commented here. The signups are not much more than that. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you.

  • Airon
    Airon
    Community Member

    Should 1Password 7 provide Local or WLAN Syncronization between devices?
    (Considering critical data security in the cloud solutions)

    The users of 1Password have already asked why there is no Local or WLAN Sync function in 1Password 7.
    Due to the very critical cloud solutions on which I and many others do not want to deposit your Password Safe with hundreds of passwords, credit card details or bank account details, we wonder why this feature no longer exists and ask the 1Password team to include or prelisten this again.

    Survey for 1Password 7 support of WLAN or LOCAL synchronization between the devices.

    VOTE HERE:
    https://onlinevoten.de/poll/95604-should-1password-provide-local-or-wlan-syncronization-between-devices-considering-critical-data-secu/

    ** I hope u will not delete this Post *


    1Password Version: 7
    Extension Version: Not Provided
    OS Version: Not Provided
    Sync Type: Not Provided

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited September 2018

    @Airon: Okay, but the features of 1Password are not decided by a vote. A mere poll doesn't really tell us much. That's why we've already got a pinned announcement for feedback in this very forum category, literally two posts above yours when you made it, at the very top, and then also the official survey in the WLAN newsletter sign up, where we also ask people for the reason they want that feature. I've merged the threads so we're not all trying to carry on the same conversation in multiple places, and slowing down response times for everyone. Thanks for understanding.

  • megaspel
    megaspel
    Community Member

    Right now it doesn't seem like there is any way to sync my password vault from my standalone license to my phone. The only sync options are for WLan sync which isn't available, and dropbox syncing has been dropped. I just spent fifty quid on a license, upgrading from 1password 4.

    Have I upgraded and ruined my ability to use 1password reliably on my phone?

  • kermit4karate
    kermit4karate
    Community Member

    @megaspel Not to worry! -- you have this forum to guide you (after the fact), and rest assured, according to @brenty, you're one of an almost insignificant # of 1Password users who care at all about WLAN sync. All is well. :)

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni

    @kermit4karate: If you want to troll, you'll need to do it elsewhere. This isn't a platform for that. Sorry.

  • AGAlumB
    AGAlumB
    1Password Alumni
    edited September 2018

    Right now it doesn't seem like there is any way to sync my password vault from my standalone license to my phone. The only sync options are for WLan sync which isn't available, and dropbox syncing has been dropped. I just spent fifty quid on a license, upgrading from 1password 4. Have I upgraded and ruined my ability to use 1password reliably on my phone?

    @megaspel: I'm sorry for the confusion. 1Password for Windows version 7 does not have a WLAN Server feature, which is the topic of this discussion. However, it definitely works with Dropbox sync. Can you tell me the OS and 1Password versions you're using across your devices? I can help you get that setup. Or, if for some reason that won't work for you (outdated version on another device, perhaps), we can get you a refund for the new license, so no worries. :)

  • BKKGuy
    BKKGuy
    Community Member

    I am just joining this conversation now after discovering that the 1Password7 program I recommended to a friend does not provide for wifi synching. I am very disappointed, since the reason I chose 1Password myself two years ago was just for wifi synching for these reasons:

    1. Physical security is always the first line of defense, not encryption.

    2. No amount of casual description of your secret keys, etc. provides enough information to me to evaluate the security of your cloud operation even if I had the resources to do so, which I don't. Therefore, I can only regard your operation as a black box that poses for me an excess risk.

    3. I recognize that the support costs for the wifi synch option are the main motivation for AgileBits to discontinue it, notwithstanding your claims about supposed benefits to the users. In order to increase your profit you have greatly reduced the utility of your product to me. There is no other way for me to understand the change.

    I'll stay with version 4 for now and will look for an alternative.

  • lutz
    lutz
    Community Member

    ... i also downgrade to Version 4 :/

This discussion has been closed.