Sign out forces readonly?

Folks, I signed out of my 1password account. I did that because I'm on a train and wifi is really spotty so 1password was locking up and not responding. The instant I did that, 1password went into read only and prevented me from creating new local vault entries. Why would it do that? Going read only should only be for when my account is no longer active. Signing out doesn't make it no longer active.

Questions:

  • What communication over the network does 1password take on local vaults. I understand icons, and watchtower activities, but why would 1password lock up completely for those tasks.*? by lockup completely, I meant that both I couldn't click and do anything in the browser extension or the client. It also looked as if it had to load all my passwords and that took a while to do. This was why I signed out in the first place
  • Does signing out help limit the communication 1password takes with local vaults?
  • Specifically around sign out and read only, is there a better way? I have no problem with annually signing in and refreshing my account status. Nor do I have a problem logging to you billing portal and pulling down a new license file periodically. But signing out should not make the app go read only.
  • I do not want to be constantly signed on. Signed on implies tracking. I'm 100% sure you have the best intentions. I'm pretty sure you don't track the IP's I connect with constantly and sell that information. But, I pay for my internet access. I don't want the traffic no matter how small. Plus, you not tracking my moves doesn't necessarily mean my ISP doesn't. Can we turn it off?

1Password Version: 7.2.573
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10
Sync Type: None

Comments

  • MikeT
    edited July 2018

    Hi @scott_savarese,

    Thanks for writing in.

    First, this may be a bug in 1Password 7.2 beta you're using, we have made some network related changes in there but it is possible it is causing the lockups in your case. We'd love to see your 1Password diagnostics report to see why it is locking up, I suspect it is due to the unstable network you're using, 1Password does a full sync each time you reconnect to the Internet; so if you drop a connection often, it'll go into a full sync mode multiple times. The problem right now within 1Password 7 is that our current sync system handles both 1Password account and standalone vaults as they're the same, so when it reconnects, it does a sync for all of them. This will be improved in future updates to avoid syncing all of your standalone vaults alongside 1Password account, only sync the updated vault(s) selectively, and skip sync when there are no changes made at all.

    Standalone vaults and 1Password account are two separate products; 1Password isn't a free product, you still need a license to modify the data in the standalone vaults. When you sign out of your 1Password account, 1Password has no proof that you own the product, and so it goes into the read-only mode. Your 1Password account gives you full access to 1Password products, including the ability to create standalone vaults. But without a signed-in account to prove this, you'd need a separate license to keep modifying standalone vaults. Signing out isn't the approach to network problems like this, it doesn't help (at this moment).

    What communication over the network does 1password take on local vaults.

    Over the network, if we exclude the other services like Watchtower, Rich Icons, and updates, none. Your external sync tools does that if you use something like Dropbox or OneDrive.

    However, 1Password uses Folder Sync to sync between your external standalone vaults and its internal database since you can have multiple standalone vaults and have it sync'ed differently. That's why the current system is the way it is, when you reconnect, your external tools would reconnect and sync, so 1Password would react to that.

    Does signing out help limit the communication 1password takes with local vaults?

    It's the same level of communication, if you're signed in, there's no increase of any communication for standalone vaults, 1Password syncs the internal database with the external vaults on your drive.

    Specifically around sign out and read only, is there a better way? I have no problem with annually signing in and refreshing my account status. Nor do I have a problem logging to you billing portal and pulling down a new license file periodically. But signing out should not make the app go read only.

    The only way to address this is to properly handle the spotty networks, what you're seeing isn't due to your Password account or standalone vaults but rather the way we sync your data.

    I do not want to be constantly signed on. Signed on implies tracking. I'm 100% sure you have the best intentions. I'm pretty sure you don't track the IP's I connect with constantly and sell that information. But, I pay for my internet access. I don't want the traffic no matter how small. Plus, you not tracking my moves doesn't necessarily mean my ISP doesn't. Can we turn it off?

    You're also paying for 1Password, it's not free. There's no need nor any desire for us to sell anything in our logs and we're Canadians, we're bound to their privacy laws as well as other regulations around the world. We've been here since 2006, we have a long history to prove that we don't do this.

    I'm not sure how you'd expect us to sync your 1Password data? The core benefit of 1Password membership is to have your 1Password data available everywhere you are with full access to all 1Password apps on all platforms we support, backups handled, item history, Travel Mode, etc. The only way this can work is to be signed in, so 1Password can update your data.

    Let's say that you don't want to use 1Password membership because of this tracking concern, you'd have the same tracking problem if you were to use Dropbox, iCloud and other cloud services with the standalone vaults. You can only avoid this by staying truly offline, you also must make sure you sign out of your Microsoft account if you're using a Windows PC.

    If you only use one computer and you have no desire to use 1Password anywhere else and you do not want to sync your data, then you may want a standalone license instead. Note that standalone license does not entitle you to future versions like 1Password membership does, you will have to buy a separate license for each 1Password version you want to use.

  • scott_savarese
    scott_savarese
    Community Member

    @MikeT , I think you've missed my point a bit. We do agree on one part of this... 1Password definitely needs to behave better on spotty networks.

    Let's say that you don't want to use 1Password membership because of this tracking concern, you'd have the same tracking problem if you were to use Dropbox, iCloud and other cloud services with the standalone vaults. You can only avoid this by staying truly offline, you also must make sure you sign out of your Microsoft account if you're using a Windows PC.

    I don't use Dropbox, iCloud or any cloud services to back my standalone vaults. I have a NAS device that replicates to an offsite NAS. I'm part of the group of people that don't want to use the cloud. I've commented a bunch in the WLAN server megathread. My goal in life is to reduce all the tracking components that are out there and spent a good deal of time minimizing it on my PC.

    However, 1Password uses Folder Sync to sync between your external standalone vaults and its internal database since you can have multiple standalone vaults and have it sync'ed differently. That's why the current system is the way it is, when you reconnect, your external tools would reconnect and sync, so 1Password would react to that.

    This doesn't make sense to me... Its a standalone vault on a local SSD. Syncing a standalone vault should be lightening fast. But why do I need to when my network restarts? There is no network component to it. THe only times a standalone vault needs to be resynced are when the system first starts (loading to memory), the vault changes on disk (assuming I use a sync tool and make a change elsewhere this is possible but doesn't happen in my case), or the vault changes in memory (when I change the contents). But even if you did a sync every second, this should be lightening fast and shouldn't lock the vault up. I'm not sure why the current version syncs standalone vaults the same as cloud vaults. Is that a feature request we can talk about and put on your radar?

    I'm not sure how you'd expect us to sync your 1Password data?

    I do not expect you to sync my standalone vaults for the purposes of this conversation. Isn't that the point of a standalone vault versus one that replicates to 1password? THe limitation is that I can't sync passwords between my phone and my laptop, but that is another thread (the WLAN sync megathread). If you want to talk about non-cloud based sync and do something there, this may change... of course.

    THis is my point that I think is getting missed in the details...

    When you sign out of your 1Password account, 1Password has no proof that you own the product, and so it goes into the read-only mode.

    Why does it have no proof? Being signed out, does not mean that 1password doesn't know my license information. It sounds like the signin function a bit overloaded. You use it for account status as well as syncing. They are separate functions. I'm fine with periodic (daily or so) account status checkins, but I don't want to be syncing. Maybe a feature request here is a check box (or similar) that logs me out of my cloud vaults but keeps me just doing periodic account status checks? Closing the cloud vault would mean no syncing but I would stay logged in for account status?

    An even easier idea is a place in the 1password portal where I can download a license file. I assume you'll be emailing me when I need to renew my account, so when I pay, I can click a link to download a new license file. If I don't renew, no new license file, and my app goes read only. Account status is a solved problems. There are lots of known solutions for this.

  • MikeT
    edited August 2018

    Hi @scott_savarese,

    This doesn't make sense to me... Its a standalone vault on a local SSD. Syncing a standalone vault should be lightening fast. But why do I need to when my network restarts? There is no network component to it....
    . I'm not sure why the current version syncs standalone vaults the same as cloud vaults. Is that a feature request we can talk about and put on your radar?

    We've only just added support for standalone vaults in 1Password 7 release a few months ago, we haven't had the chance of rebuilding other parts of the program to handle them differently.

    Future updates will separate them out and only sync when local folder changes. Right now, every time your network changes, it will trigger a sync call, this sync call triggers a new sync session for all of your accounts and standalone vaults, there's no isolation yet.

    Even if there is no 1Password account whatsoever, just one standalone vault with Folder Sync, the same UI lockups will occurs in a spotty network.

    Why does it have no proof? Being signed out, does not mean that 1password doesn't know my license information.

    There are no standalone licenses included for 1Password.com membership, they're two separate products. The whole point of 1Password.com account is to simplify everything, so that you do not need to worry about licenses, backups, syncing, all apps and its future versions, secure storage, and more, you simply log in and everything is handled for you. That's what included in the subscription plans, standalone licenses will not be included because the entire process of license verification, purchasing, app upgrades (no lifetime licenses are sold by us) and so on is in a separate area that is not related to 1Password.com systems.

    If you wish to switch to standalone vaults with local NAS sync, you will need to cancel your 1Password account and purchase a standalone license instead.

  • scott_savarese
    scott_savarese
    Community Member

    @MikeT ,

    Future updates will separate them out and only sync when local folder changes. Right now, every time your network changes, it will trigger a sync call, this sync call triggers a new sync session for all of your accounts and standalone vaults, there's no isolation yet.

    OK... so its already on the roadmap... What do the timelines look like for fixing it?

    However, that's a bit wrong... I'm not sure how 1password triggers on network changes, but my wifi never dropped out. I was tethered to my phone and that signal was always strong. The phone to the internet is what was spotty. I just want to make sure we get the problem right.

    If you wish to switch to standalone vaults with local NAS sync, you will need to cancel your 1Password account and purchase a standalone license instead.

    OK, I'm fine doing that... But I don't see that offering on the pricing page. Plus, I paid for a whole year of 1password. Can you help me work through the process of converting the remainder of my membership into a standalone license?

    To be honest, changing licenses is a bit silly... Why should how I pay affect how the apps works? But if the only way to remove syncing is to change a license then so be it.

  • Hi @scott_savarese,

    What do the timelines look like for fixing it?

    Soon, we're working on it as we speak.

    The phone to the internet is what was spotty. I just want to make sure we get the problem right.

    Then, please use this guide to generate the 1Password diagnostic report and email it to us at support+windows@1Password.com. Also, in the email, include the link to this thread along with your forum username, so that we can connect the email to this thread.

    Let us know here when you've sent it, so we can confirm we got the email.

    OK, I'm fine doing that... But I don't see that offering on the pricing page. Plus, I paid for a whole year of 1password. Can you help me work through the process of converting the remainder of my membership into a standalone license?

    Sure, you can email us at support+sales@1Password.com and we'll see what we can do for you.

    To be honest, changing licenses is a bit silly... Why should how I pay affect how the apps works? But if the only way to remove syncing is to change a license then so be it.

    I agree, changing the licenses would be silly but that's not what happening here. You're changing from one product to another product that works completely different for two different use cases/needs.

    You buy a license to own a specific product. So, in this case, you buy a license to 1Password 7 for Windows. You get to keep that 1Password 7 app forever but it does not include syncing, Travel Mode, 1Password X extensions, and so on. You are responsible for setting up the sync on your own and setting up 1Password on any other PCs as well handling the backups yourself.

    If you have an iOS or Android device, you'd have to purchase a separate license (in-app purchase) for each one too as well as for your Mac.

    For 1Password subscription, you're not buying 1Password products; instead you're subscribing to a comprehensive data service where you get a 1Password.com account that includes access to all 1Password apps (including its future versions), 1Password X extension, sync and backups are handled by us, and so on. Note you own the data of course, we only see the encrypted blobs that no one but you decrypt.

    You simply log in to your 1Password account in any 1Password app, the data will be there. For majority of our customers, this is the easiest solution to use and they can upgrade to include their family members for secure data sharing. When you let the subscription expire, you can still access your 1Password data to read or export as needed but you won't be able to modify it until you renew.

    As 1Password subscription works differently, it doesn't cover your use case of standalone vaults with local sync only, it is not designed for that nor will it be built for it.

This discussion has been closed.